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Remember guys, this is the general discussion thread. Keep whine/QQ posts in the appropriate QQ memorial thread! Thanks! |
On April 03 2012 05:20 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 05:07 Dandel Ion wrote:On April 03 2012 04:58 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 03 2012 04:37 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 03 2012 01:56 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 03 2012 00:43 TheYango wrote:On April 03 2012 00:31 Two_DoWn wrote:
Jungle doesnt really want it most of the time because there are better buy options for one of the nosr gold starved roles. You say this all the time, but I honestly think that Aegis is a great item for a gold-starved role, because even just the self-stat efficiency is really good. You're basically not paying anything in terms of gold-value for the aura because Aegis is self-stat efficient. It's only drawback is that as a 2k gold item, it's not slot-efficient, but the gold-starved nature of junglers means that slot-efficiency doesn't even come into play until later in the game, if at all. I dont think aegis is bad. I just think other stuff is better. On offensive types, wriggles, wits, and phage are all mulipurpose items that fit my role better than aegis does. Even Hog fits better IMO. On support types, you are looking at hog+philo core, which transitions so damn well into a fast shurelias and frozen heart to completely shut down the enemy ad carry before they even get started on their build. I mean, aegis works on some jungles in some roles. I just dont think that it is ever a must buy in the same way that shurelias, wits, wriggles, randis, and other items are. Especially when you consider that IF shurelias is such a great item that supports should always rush that instead of aegis, why not get it on the jungle who can get it even faster and leave the aegis to the support? But I will admit I am biased against aegis because I find the entire concept of auras to be a really shitty game mechanic in terms of both skills and items. ya support get dat frozen heart before the enemy ad carry can even start his build. A true baller has shurelya's too Support jungles. Like maokai. Its perfectly reasonable to have a frozen heart or shurelias by the time the AD gets their bf item with good farm, and definitly by the time they get bf item+zeal. So you're fine with Frozen Heart, but Aegis is a stupid item because auras are bad? And for the 1086th time: Aegis is OP, buy it. FH is an aura item too, therefor also OP. Buy it afterwards. AURAS ARE OP YOU CAN NEVER HAVE ENOUGH OF THEM. BUY THEM ALL FH is VERY different from Aegis. You cant compare them 1:1 just because they both have auras. Thats like saying Exe calling is the same as a wriggles because they both have lifesteal. And I didnt say Aegis was bad. I said severall times it was good. I just would rather have a FH. Or a Shurelias. Or a Wits End. Or a FM. Or any other item that my role could use. That isnt to say that one should NEVER get aegis, because realistically everyone can and it is never a bad move to do so. The problem that I have is that most of the time jungles get to be MORE effective by buying items that arent aegis. Shyvana is better with wriggles phage wits than with aegis. Maokai is better with shurelias hog FH than with aegis. Does aegis work in those builds? Sure. But I would argue that individually the champ is better off without it than with it. It just becomes a question of wether or not you want to sacrifice a little bit of their power in order to make the rest of the team better, which most of the time I dont think is a good play. But sometimes it is. Its just game dependent. And eventually you MIGHT start to actually read my posts before spouting complete bullshit just because you feel the need to attack me personally. Aegis isnt stupid because it has an aura. AURAS are stupid as a game mechanic. Aegis is a great item in the game. Doesnt change the fact that in terms of design it is a terrible item.
Aegis is for teamplayers, that is all. In arranged 5s, aegis will be better than any of those items assuming you teamfight etc. In soloqueue it doesn't really matter if your allies are a bit tankier because you have no idea wether they smart or dumb.
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On April 03 2012 05:02 Two_DoWn wrote:
The big thing with renek was just people realizing his late game doesnt suck nearly as bad as people think it does. Everyone knew his early game was great. His late game is VERY underrated, simply because most people think he is dead weight.
Renekton dropped off the face of the game six or nine months ago and since then practically every other top lane champion worth mentioning has been nerfed at least once, if not multiple times. People aren't changing their opinions of him, they're just remembering he even exists.
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Renekton's rise in play has to do more with the nerfs to his counters and the buffing of BT/Hex than anything. GP SHIT on Renekton and was a 24/7 pick for a long time until the nerfs and that alone was responsible for a lot of how much he dropped in play. That said, croc was a rare pick even before GP surged. I abused croc as my top laner of choice until it stopped being feasible to pick him early. I recall Irelia rapidly getting to the point where Renekton couldn't trade with her back at that time (iono if still the case) and she was another really high pick.
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Hmm kind of like how Ezreal got "buffed" because almost every AD carries got nerfed.
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On April 03 2012 05:48 BlackMagister wrote:
Hmm kind of like how Ezreal got "buffed" because almost every AD carries got nerfed.
isn't that also how cass came to power
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On April 03 2012 05:20 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 05:07 Dandel Ion wrote:On April 03 2012 04:58 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 03 2012 04:37 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 03 2012 01:56 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 03 2012 00:43 TheYango wrote:On April 03 2012 00:31 Two_DoWn wrote:
Jungle doesnt really want it most of the time because there are better buy options for one of the nosr gold starved roles. You say this all the time, but I honestly think that Aegis is a great item for a gold-starved role, because even just the self-stat efficiency is really good. You're basically not paying anything in terms of gold-value for the aura because Aegis is self-stat efficient. It's only drawback is that as a 2k gold item, it's not slot-efficient, but the gold-starved nature of junglers means that slot-efficiency doesn't even come into play until later in the game, if at all. I dont think aegis is bad. I just think other stuff is better. On offensive types, wriggles, wits, and phage are all mulipurpose items that fit my role better than aegis does. Even Hog fits better IMO. On support types, you are looking at hog+philo core, which transitions so damn well into a fast shurelias and frozen heart to completely shut down the enemy ad carry before they even get started on their build. I mean, aegis works on some jungles in some roles. I just dont think that it is ever a must buy in the same way that shurelias, wits, wriggles, randis, and other items are. Especially when you consider that IF shurelias is such a great item that supports should always rush that instead of aegis, why not get it on the jungle who can get it even faster and leave the aegis to the support? But I will admit I am biased against aegis because I find the entire concept of auras to be a really shitty game mechanic in terms of both skills and items. ya support get dat frozen heart before the enemy ad carry can even start his build. A true baller has shurelya's too Support jungles. Like maokai. Its perfectly reasonable to have a frozen heart or shurelias by the time the AD gets their bf item with good farm, and definitly by the time they get bf item+zeal. So you're fine with Frozen Heart, but Aegis is a stupid item because auras are bad? And for the 1086th time: Aegis is OP, buy it. FH is an aura item too, therefor also OP. Buy it afterwards. AURAS ARE OP YOU CAN NEVER HAVE ENOUGH OF THEM. BUY THEM ALL FH is VERY different from Aegis. You cant compare them 1:1 just because they both have auras. Thats like saying Exe calling is the same as a wriggles because they both have lifesteal. And I didnt say Aegis was bad. I said severall times it was good. I just would rather have a FH. Or a Shurelias. Or a Wits End. Or a FM. Or any other item that my role could use. That isnt to say that one should NEVER get aegis, because realistically everyone can and it is never a bad move to do so. The problem that I have is that most of the time jungles get to be MORE effective by buying items that arent aegis. Shyvana is better with wriggles phage wits than with aegis. Maokai is better with shurelias hog FH than with aegis. Does aegis work in those builds? Sure. But I would argue that individually the champ is better off without it than with it. It just becomes a question of wether or not you want to sacrifice a little bit of their power in order to make the rest of the team better, which most of the time I dont think is a good play. But sometimes it is. Its just game dependent. And eventually you MIGHT start to actually read my posts before spouting complete bullshit just because you feel the need to attack me personally. Aegis isnt stupid because it has an aura. AURAS are stupid as a game mechanic. Aegis is a great item in the game. Doesnt change the fact that in terms of design it is a terrible item.
Yeah I keep hoping you might one day read the posts you answer too but so far to no avail...
Only the first sentence of the last post was directed at you, but I think I can see how you think I was trying to insult you, writing obviously non-serious stuff in capslock and all. I'm really sorry.
I've seen the error of my ways and will just ignore your posts from now on, feel free to do the same.
On April 03 2012 05:50 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 05:48 BlackMagister wrote:
Hmm kind of like how Ezreal got "buffed" because almost every AD carries got nerfed. isn't that also how cass came to power
Nah, Cass was always strong, she just got FtoM and then of course nerfed because of Oce (damn youuuuuuu)
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On April 03 2012 04:52 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 04:13 Erasme wrote:
I don't understand why one whould smartcast. Play ryze for one game and you'll see why. Any need to quickly cast spells in succession demands smartcasting.
Not just ryze, it makes for split second reaction time while kiting. Smart casting has saved me numerous times, especially when getting tower doven, and you need to land a stun/snare quickly, while running away.
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On April 03 2012 05:23 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 05:20 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 03 2012 05:07 Dandel Ion wrote:On April 03 2012 04:58 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 03 2012 04:37 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 03 2012 01:56 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 03 2012 00:43 TheYango wrote:On April 03 2012 00:31 Two_DoWn wrote:
Jungle doesnt really want it most of the time because there are better buy options for one of the nosr gold starved roles. You say this all the time, but I honestly think that Aegis is a great item for a gold-starved role, because even just the self-stat efficiency is really good. You're basically not paying anything in terms of gold-value for the aura because Aegis is self-stat efficient. It's only drawback is that as a 2k gold item, it's not slot-efficient, but the gold-starved nature of junglers means that slot-efficiency doesn't even come into play until later in the game, if at all. I dont think aegis is bad. I just think other stuff is better. On offensive types, wriggles, wits, and phage are all mulipurpose items that fit my role better than aegis does. Even Hog fits better IMO. On support types, you are looking at hog+philo core, which transitions so damn well into a fast shurelias and frozen heart to completely shut down the enemy ad carry before they even get started on their build. I mean, aegis works on some jungles in some roles. I just dont think that it is ever a must buy in the same way that shurelias, wits, wriggles, randis, and other items are. Especially when you consider that IF shurelias is such a great item that supports should always rush that instead of aegis, why not get it on the jungle who can get it even faster and leave the aegis to the support? But I will admit I am biased against aegis because I find the entire concept of auras to be a really shitty game mechanic in terms of both skills and items. ya support get dat frozen heart before the enemy ad carry can even start his build. A true baller has shurelya's too Support jungles. Like maokai. Its perfectly reasonable to have a frozen heart or shurelias by the time the AD gets their bf item with good farm, and definitly by the time they get bf item+zeal. So you're fine with Frozen Heart, but Aegis is a stupid item because auras are bad? And for the 1086th time: Aegis is OP, buy it. FH is an aura item too, therefor also OP. Buy it afterwards. AURAS ARE OP YOU CAN NEVER HAVE ENOUGH OF THEM. BUY THEM ALL FH is VERY different from Aegis. You cant compare them 1:1 just because they both have auras. Thats like saying Exe calling is the same as a wriggles because they both have lifesteal. And I didnt say Aegis was bad. I said severall times it was good. I just would rather have a FH. Or a Shurelias. Or a Wits End. Or a FM. Or any other item that my role could use. That isnt to say that one should NEVER get aegis, because realistically everyone can and it is never a bad move to do so. The problem that I have is that most of the time jungles get to be MORE effective by buying items that arent aegis. Shyvana is better with wriggles phage wits than with aegis. Maokai is better with shurelias hog FH than with aegis. Does aegis work in those builds? Sure. But I would argue that individually the champ is better off without it than with it. It just becomes a question of wether or not you want to sacrifice a little bit of their power in order to make the rest of the team better, which most of the time I dont think is a good play. But sometimes it is. Its just game dependent. And eventually you MIGHT start to actually read my posts before spouting complete bullshit just because you feel the need to attack me personally. Aegis isnt stupid because it has an aura. AURAS are stupid as a game mechanic. Aegis is a great item in the game. Doesnt change the fact that in terms of design it is a terrible item. Aegis is for teamplayers, that is all. In arranged 5s, aegis will be better than any of those items assuming you teamfight etc. In soloqueue it doesn't really matter if your allies are a bit tankier because you have no idea wether they smart or dumb.
I think he has a point though because many junglers really like the glacial and the FH is just cheaper to get when you already have the glacial than the Aegis.
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On April 03 2012 05:13 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 05:07 Dandel Ion wrote:On April 03 2012 04:58 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 03 2012 04:37 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 03 2012 01:56 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 03 2012 00:43 TheYango wrote:On April 03 2012 00:31 Two_DoWn wrote:
Jungle doesnt really want it most of the time because there are better buy options for one of the nosr gold starved roles. You say this all the time, but I honestly think that Aegis is a great item for a gold-starved role, because even just the self-stat efficiency is really good. You're basically not paying anything in terms of gold-value for the aura because Aegis is self-stat efficient. It's only drawback is that as a 2k gold item, it's not slot-efficient, but the gold-starved nature of junglers means that slot-efficiency doesn't even come into play until later in the game, if at all. I dont think aegis is bad. I just think other stuff is better. On offensive types, wriggles, wits, and phage are all mulipurpose items that fit my role better than aegis does. Even Hog fits better IMO. On support types, you are looking at hog+philo core, which transitions so damn well into a fast shurelias and frozen heart to completely shut down the enemy ad carry before they even get started on their build. I mean, aegis works on some jungles in some roles. I just dont think that it is ever a must buy in the same way that shurelias, wits, wriggles, randis, and other items are. Especially when you consider that IF shurelias is such a great item that supports should always rush that instead of aegis, why not get it on the jungle who can get it even faster and leave the aegis to the support? But I will admit I am biased against aegis because I find the entire concept of auras to be a really shitty game mechanic in terms of both skills and items. ya support get dat frozen heart before the enemy ad carry can even start his build. A true baller has shurelya's too Support jungles. Like maokai. Its perfectly reasonable to have a frozen heart or shurelias by the time the AD gets their bf item with good farm, and definitly by the time they get bf item+zeal. So you're fine with Frozen Heart, but Aegis is a stupid item because auras are bad? And for the 1086th time: Aegis is OP, buy it. FH is an aura item too, therefor also OP. Buy it afterwards. AURAS ARE OP YOU CAN NEVER HAVE ENOUGH OF THEM. BUY THEM ALL If you can actually afford a frozen heart on a support, a randuins is way better to protect your carry.
I don't agree, imo randuins is for bruisers/tanks that don't want to get kited by the carry. Look at the warden mail proc and what it's useful for. You build randuins and now they can't run away from you, you build frozen heart and now they can't damage you, different uses.
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On April 03 2012 05:57 BlueSpace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 05:23 JackDino wrote:On April 03 2012 05:20 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 03 2012 05:07 Dandel Ion wrote:On April 03 2012 04:58 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 03 2012 04:37 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 03 2012 01:56 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 03 2012 00:43 TheYango wrote:On April 03 2012 00:31 Two_DoWn wrote:
Jungle doesnt really want it most of the time because there are better buy options for one of the nosr gold starved roles. You say this all the time, but I honestly think that Aegis is a great item for a gold-starved role, because even just the self-stat efficiency is really good. You're basically not paying anything in terms of gold-value for the aura because Aegis is self-stat efficient. It's only drawback is that as a 2k gold item, it's not slot-efficient, but the gold-starved nature of junglers means that slot-efficiency doesn't even come into play until later in the game, if at all. I dont think aegis is bad. I just think other stuff is better. On offensive types, wriggles, wits, and phage are all mulipurpose items that fit my role better than aegis does. Even Hog fits better IMO. On support types, you are looking at hog+philo core, which transitions so damn well into a fast shurelias and frozen heart to completely shut down the enemy ad carry before they even get started on their build. I mean, aegis works on some jungles in some roles. I just dont think that it is ever a must buy in the same way that shurelias, wits, wriggles, randis, and other items are. Especially when you consider that IF shurelias is such a great item that supports should always rush that instead of aegis, why not get it on the jungle who can get it even faster and leave the aegis to the support? But I will admit I am biased against aegis because I find the entire concept of auras to be a really shitty game mechanic in terms of both skills and items. ya support get dat frozen heart before the enemy ad carry can even start his build. A true baller has shurelya's too Support jungles. Like maokai. Its perfectly reasonable to have a frozen heart or shurelias by the time the AD gets their bf item with good farm, and definitly by the time they get bf item+zeal. So you're fine with Frozen Heart, but Aegis is a stupid item because auras are bad? And for the 1086th time: Aegis is OP, buy it. FH is an aura item too, therefor also OP. Buy it afterwards. AURAS ARE OP YOU CAN NEVER HAVE ENOUGH OF THEM. BUY THEM ALL FH is VERY different from Aegis. You cant compare them 1:1 just because they both have auras. Thats like saying Exe calling is the same as a wriggles because they both have lifesteal. And I didnt say Aegis was bad. I said severall times it was good. I just would rather have a FH. Or a Shurelias. Or a Wits End. Or a FM. Or any other item that my role could use. That isnt to say that one should NEVER get aegis, because realistically everyone can and it is never a bad move to do so. The problem that I have is that most of the time jungles get to be MORE effective by buying items that arent aegis. Shyvana is better with wriggles phage wits than with aegis. Maokai is better with shurelias hog FH than with aegis. Does aegis work in those builds? Sure. But I would argue that individually the champ is better off without it than with it. It just becomes a question of wether or not you want to sacrifice a little bit of their power in order to make the rest of the team better, which most of the time I dont think is a good play. But sometimes it is. Its just game dependent. And eventually you MIGHT start to actually read my posts before spouting complete bullshit just because you feel the need to attack me personally. Aegis isnt stupid because it has an aura. AURAS are stupid as a game mechanic. Aegis is a great item in the game. Doesnt change the fact that in terms of design it is a terrible item. Aegis is for teamplayers, that is all. In arranged 5s, aegis will be better than any of those items assuming you teamfight etc. In soloqueue it doesn't really matter if your allies are a bit tankier because you have no idea wether they smart or dumb. I think he has a point though because many junglers really like the glacial and the FH is just cheaper to get when you already have the glacial than the Aegis.
I somewhat agree, it's just that in arranged 5s I'd rather have an aegis because you can rely on your team.
On April 03 2012 05:58 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 05:13 JackDino wrote:On April 03 2012 05:07 Dandel Ion wrote:On April 03 2012 04:58 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 03 2012 04:37 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 03 2012 01:56 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 03 2012 00:43 TheYango wrote:On April 03 2012 00:31 Two_DoWn wrote:
Jungle doesnt really want it most of the time because there are better buy options for one of the nosr gold starved roles. You say this all the time, but I honestly think that Aegis is a great item for a gold-starved role, because even just the self-stat efficiency is really good. You're basically not paying anything in terms of gold-value for the aura because Aegis is self-stat efficient. It's only drawback is that as a 2k gold item, it's not slot-efficient, but the gold-starved nature of junglers means that slot-efficiency doesn't even come into play until later in the game, if at all. I dont think aegis is bad. I just think other stuff is better. On offensive types, wriggles, wits, and phage are all mulipurpose items that fit my role better than aegis does. Even Hog fits better IMO. On support types, you are looking at hog+philo core, which transitions so damn well into a fast shurelias and frozen heart to completely shut down the enemy ad carry before they even get started on their build. I mean, aegis works on some jungles in some roles. I just dont think that it is ever a must buy in the same way that shurelias, wits, wriggles, randis, and other items are. Especially when you consider that IF shurelias is such a great item that supports should always rush that instead of aegis, why not get it on the jungle who can get it even faster and leave the aegis to the support? But I will admit I am biased against aegis because I find the entire concept of auras to be a really shitty game mechanic in terms of both skills and items. ya support get dat frozen heart before the enemy ad carry can even start his build. A true baller has shurelya's too Support jungles. Like maokai. Its perfectly reasonable to have a frozen heart or shurelias by the time the AD gets their bf item with good farm, and definitly by the time they get bf item+zeal. So you're fine with Frozen Heart, but Aegis is a stupid item because auras are bad? And for the 1086th time: Aegis is OP, buy it. FH is an aura item too, therefor also OP. Buy it afterwards. AURAS ARE OP YOU CAN NEVER HAVE ENOUGH OF THEM. BUY THEM ALL If you can actually afford a frozen heart on a support, a randuins is way better to protect your carry. I don't agree, imo randuins is for bruisers/tanks that don't want to get kited by the carry. Look at the warden mail proc and what it's useful for. You build randuins and now they can't run away from you, you build frozen heart and now they can't damage you, different uses.
Randuins gives a 35% attackspeed/movespeed slow for 2seconds, I'd take that any day over 20% slower attackspeed when protecting my carries, lets them get away from bruisers.
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On April 03 2012 05:50 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 05:48 BlackMagister wrote:
Hmm kind of like how Ezreal got "buffed" because almost every AD carries got nerfed. isn't that also how cass came to power
iirc, cassio was the "she's really strong in lane but nothing else" (the LB argument). Then people realized that winning lanes = winning games.
Somewhere along the way people realized she has insane late game damage and an ult that single handedly wins games, too.
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On April 03 2012 06:01 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 05:57 BlueSpace wrote:On April 03 2012 05:23 JackDino wrote:On April 03 2012 05:20 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 03 2012 05:07 Dandel Ion wrote:On April 03 2012 04:58 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 03 2012 04:37 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 03 2012 01:56 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 03 2012 00:43 TheYango wrote:On April 03 2012 00:31 Two_DoWn wrote:
Jungle doesnt really want it most of the time because there are better buy options for one of the nosr gold starved roles. You say this all the time, but I honestly think that Aegis is a great item for a gold-starved role, because even just the self-stat efficiency is really good. You're basically not paying anything in terms of gold-value for the aura because Aegis is self-stat efficient. It's only drawback is that as a 2k gold item, it's not slot-efficient, but the gold-starved nature of junglers means that slot-efficiency doesn't even come into play until later in the game, if at all. I dont think aegis is bad. I just think other stuff is better. On offensive types, wriggles, wits, and phage are all mulipurpose items that fit my role better than aegis does. Even Hog fits better IMO. On support types, you are looking at hog+philo core, which transitions so damn well into a fast shurelias and frozen heart to completely shut down the enemy ad carry before they even get started on their build. I mean, aegis works on some jungles in some roles. I just dont think that it is ever a must buy in the same way that shurelias, wits, wriggles, randis, and other items are. Especially when you consider that IF shurelias is such a great item that supports should always rush that instead of aegis, why not get it on the jungle who can get it even faster and leave the aegis to the support? But I will admit I am biased against aegis because I find the entire concept of auras to be a really shitty game mechanic in terms of both skills and items. ya support get dat frozen heart before the enemy ad carry can even start his build. A true baller has shurelya's too Support jungles. Like maokai. Its perfectly reasonable to have a frozen heart or shurelias by the time the AD gets their bf item with good farm, and definitly by the time they get bf item+zeal. So you're fine with Frozen Heart, but Aegis is a stupid item because auras are bad? And for the 1086th time: Aegis is OP, buy it. FH is an aura item too, therefor also OP. Buy it afterwards. AURAS ARE OP YOU CAN NEVER HAVE ENOUGH OF THEM. BUY THEM ALL FH is VERY different from Aegis. You cant compare them 1:1 just because they both have auras. Thats like saying Exe calling is the same as a wriggles because they both have lifesteal. And I didnt say Aegis was bad. I said severall times it was good. I just would rather have a FH. Or a Shurelias. Or a Wits End. Or a FM. Or any other item that my role could use. That isnt to say that one should NEVER get aegis, because realistically everyone can and it is never a bad move to do so. The problem that I have is that most of the time jungles get to be MORE effective by buying items that arent aegis. Shyvana is better with wriggles phage wits than with aegis. Maokai is better with shurelias hog FH than with aegis. Does aegis work in those builds? Sure. But I would argue that individually the champ is better off without it than with it. It just becomes a question of wether or not you want to sacrifice a little bit of their power in order to make the rest of the team better, which most of the time I dont think is a good play. But sometimes it is. Its just game dependent. And eventually you MIGHT start to actually read my posts before spouting complete bullshit just because you feel the need to attack me personally. Aegis isnt stupid because it has an aura. AURAS are stupid as a game mechanic. Aegis is a great item in the game. Doesnt change the fact that in terms of design it is a terrible item. Aegis is for teamplayers, that is all. In arranged 5s, aegis will be better than any of those items assuming you teamfight etc. In soloqueue it doesn't really matter if your allies are a bit tankier because you have no idea wether they smart or dumb. I think he has a point though because many junglers really like the glacial and the FH is just cheaper to get when you already have the glacial than the Aegis. I somewhat agree, it's just that in arranged 5s I'd rather have an aegis because you can rely on your team. Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 05:58 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 03 2012 05:13 JackDino wrote:On April 03 2012 05:07 Dandel Ion wrote:On April 03 2012 04:58 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 03 2012 04:37 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 03 2012 01:56 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 03 2012 00:43 TheYango wrote:On April 03 2012 00:31 Two_DoWn wrote:
Jungle doesnt really want it most of the time because there are better buy options for one of the nosr gold starved roles. You say this all the time, but I honestly think that Aegis is a great item for a gold-starved role, because even just the self-stat efficiency is really good. You're basically not paying anything in terms of gold-value for the aura because Aegis is self-stat efficient. It's only drawback is that as a 2k gold item, it's not slot-efficient, but the gold-starved nature of junglers means that slot-efficiency doesn't even come into play until later in the game, if at all. I dont think aegis is bad. I just think other stuff is better. On offensive types, wriggles, wits, and phage are all mulipurpose items that fit my role better than aegis does. Even Hog fits better IMO. On support types, you are looking at hog+philo core, which transitions so damn well into a fast shurelias and frozen heart to completely shut down the enemy ad carry before they even get started on their build. I mean, aegis works on some jungles in some roles. I just dont think that it is ever a must buy in the same way that shurelias, wits, wriggles, randis, and other items are. Especially when you consider that IF shurelias is such a great item that supports should always rush that instead of aegis, why not get it on the jungle who can get it even faster and leave the aegis to the support? But I will admit I am biased against aegis because I find the entire concept of auras to be a really shitty game mechanic in terms of both skills and items. ya support get dat frozen heart before the enemy ad carry can even start his build. A true baller has shurelya's too Support jungles. Like maokai. Its perfectly reasonable to have a frozen heart or shurelias by the time the AD gets their bf item with good farm, and definitly by the time they get bf item+zeal. So you're fine with Frozen Heart, but Aegis is a stupid item because auras are bad? And for the 1086th time: Aegis is OP, buy it. FH is an aura item too, therefor also OP. Buy it afterwards. AURAS ARE OP YOU CAN NEVER HAVE ENOUGH OF THEM. BUY THEM ALL If you can actually afford a frozen heart on a support, a randuins is way better to protect your carry. I don't agree, imo randuins is for bruisers/tanks that don't want to get kited by the carry. Look at the warden mail proc and what it's useful for. You build randuins and now they can't run away from you, you build frozen heart and now they can't damage you, different uses. Randuins gives a 35% attackspeed/movespeed slow for 2seconds, I'd take that any day over 20% slower attackspeed when protecting my carries, lets them get away from bruisers.
Are we still/again talking supports?
Cause on supports Randuins is very unreliable, you will almost never be in range to do the active, and if the enemy AD does not have acute stupidity, he will not focus the support before the other squishies
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On April 03 2012 06:05 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 06:01 JackDino wrote:On April 03 2012 05:57 BlueSpace wrote:On April 03 2012 05:23 JackDino wrote:On April 03 2012 05:20 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 03 2012 05:07 Dandel Ion wrote:On April 03 2012 04:58 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 03 2012 04:37 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 03 2012 01:56 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 03 2012 00:43 TheYango wrote:
[quote]
You say this all the time, but I honestly think that Aegis is a great item for a gold-starved role, because even just the self-stat efficiency is really good.
You're basically not paying anything in terms of gold-value for the aura because Aegis is self-stat efficient. It's only drawback is that as a 2k gold item, it's not slot-efficient, but the gold-starved nature of junglers means that slot-efficiency doesn't even come into play until later in the game, if at all. I dont think aegis is bad. I just think other stuff is better. On offensive types, wriggles, wits, and phage are all mulipurpose items that fit my role better than aegis does. Even Hog fits better IMO. On support types, you are looking at hog+philo core, which transitions so damn well into a fast shurelias and frozen heart to completely shut down the enemy ad carry before they even get started on their build. I mean, aegis works on some jungles in some roles. I just dont think that it is ever a must buy in the same way that shurelias, wits, wriggles, randis, and other items are. Especially when you consider that IF shurelias is such a great item that supports should always rush that instead of aegis, why not get it on the jungle who can get it even faster and leave the aegis to the support? But I will admit I am biased against aegis because I find the entire concept of auras to be a really shitty game mechanic in terms of both skills and items. ya support get dat frozen heart before the enemy ad carry can even start his build. A true baller has shurelya's too Support jungles. Like maokai. Its perfectly reasonable to have a frozen heart or shurelias by the time the AD gets their bf item with good farm, and definitly by the time they get bf item+zeal. So you're fine with Frozen Heart, but Aegis is a stupid item because auras are bad? And for the 1086th time: Aegis is OP, buy it. FH is an aura item too, therefor also OP. Buy it afterwards. AURAS ARE OP YOU CAN NEVER HAVE ENOUGH OF THEM. BUY THEM ALL FH is VERY different from Aegis. You cant compare them 1:1 just because they both have auras. Thats like saying Exe calling is the same as a wriggles because they both have lifesteal. And I didnt say Aegis was bad. I said severall times it was good. I just would rather have a FH. Or a Shurelias. Or a Wits End. Or a FM. Or any other item that my role could use. That isnt to say that one should NEVER get aegis, because realistically everyone can and it is never a bad move to do so. The problem that I have is that most of the time jungles get to be MORE effective by buying items that arent aegis. Shyvana is better with wriggles phage wits than with aegis. Maokai is better with shurelias hog FH than with aegis. Does aegis work in those builds? Sure. But I would argue that individually the champ is better off without it than with it. It just becomes a question of wether or not you want to sacrifice a little bit of their power in order to make the rest of the team better, which most of the time I dont think is a good play. But sometimes it is. Its just game dependent. And eventually you MIGHT start to actually read my posts before spouting complete bullshit just because you feel the need to attack me personally. Aegis isnt stupid because it has an aura. AURAS are stupid as a game mechanic. Aegis is a great item in the game. Doesnt change the fact that in terms of design it is a terrible item. Aegis is for teamplayers, that is all. In arranged 5s, aegis will be better than any of those items assuming you teamfight etc. In soloqueue it doesn't really matter if your allies are a bit tankier because you have no idea wether they smart or dumb. I think he has a point though because many junglers really like the glacial and the FH is just cheaper to get when you already have the glacial than the Aegis. I somewhat agree, it's just that in arranged 5s I'd rather have an aegis because you can rely on your team. On April 03 2012 05:58 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 03 2012 05:13 JackDino wrote:On April 03 2012 05:07 Dandel Ion wrote:On April 03 2012 04:58 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 03 2012 04:37 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 03 2012 01:56 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 03 2012 00:43 TheYango wrote:On April 03 2012 00:31 Two_DoWn wrote:
Jungle doesnt really want it most of the time because there are better buy options for one of the nosr gold starved roles. You say this all the time, but I honestly think that Aegis is a great item for a gold-starved role, because even just the self-stat efficiency is really good. You're basically not paying anything in terms of gold-value for the aura because Aegis is self-stat efficient. It's only drawback is that as a 2k gold item, it's not slot-efficient, but the gold-starved nature of junglers means that slot-efficiency doesn't even come into play until later in the game, if at all. I dont think aegis is bad. I just think other stuff is better. On offensive types, wriggles, wits, and phage are all mulipurpose items that fit my role better than aegis does. Even Hog fits better IMO. On support types, you are looking at hog+philo core, which transitions so damn well into a fast shurelias and frozen heart to completely shut down the enemy ad carry before they even get started on their build. I mean, aegis works on some jungles in some roles. I just dont think that it is ever a must buy in the same way that shurelias, wits, wriggles, randis, and other items are. Especially when you consider that IF shurelias is such a great item that supports should always rush that instead of aegis, why not get it on the jungle who can get it even faster and leave the aegis to the support? But I will admit I am biased against aegis because I find the entire concept of auras to be a really shitty game mechanic in terms of both skills and items. ya support get dat frozen heart before the enemy ad carry can even start his build. A true baller has shurelya's too Support jungles. Like maokai. Its perfectly reasonable to have a frozen heart or shurelias by the time the AD gets their bf item with good farm, and definitly by the time they get bf item+zeal. So you're fine with Frozen Heart, but Aegis is a stupid item because auras are bad? And for the 1086th time: Aegis is OP, buy it. FH is an aura item too, therefor also OP. Buy it afterwards. AURAS ARE OP YOU CAN NEVER HAVE ENOUGH OF THEM. BUY THEM ALL If you can actually afford a frozen heart on a support, a randuins is way better to protect your carry. I don't agree, imo randuins is for bruisers/tanks that don't want to get kited by the carry. Look at the warden mail proc and what it's useful for. You build randuins and now they can't run away from you, you build frozen heart and now they can't damage you, different uses. Randuins gives a 35% attackspeed/movespeed slow for 2seconds, I'd take that any day over 20% slower attackspeed when protecting my carries, lets them get away from bruisers. Are we still/again talking supports? Cause on supports Randuins is very unreliable, you will almost never be in range to do the active, and if the enemy AD does not have acute stupidity, he will not focus the support before the other squishies
I'm pretty sure I stated that it's for protecting your own carry, if you're close to your carry and a bruiser charges them you just slow them for 2 seconds. If you play properly you should always be in range for the active.
Realistically though you shouldn't get either since 3k gold for 1 item takes a long long time on supports whereas there are a lot good cheaper items.
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Depends on the support. Leona/Alistar make very good use of it.
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On April 03 2012 06:08 Craton wrote:
Depends on the support. Leona/Alistar make very good use of it.
Hm, true.
Even though I'm not convinced it's a better choice than Locket. I'm not even a fan of Locket, but it just seems more universally useful.
Situational I guess~
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1. I thought the discussion was about supporty-junglers, not bot lane supports
2. This thread is terrible and I'm out, peace.
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I'm pretty sure randuin's is better suited to top/junglers who can afford to buy a HoG, especially junglers. But I'm a fan of buying HoG as it's health(quite useful on most junglers) and money(also in short supply most of the time).
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You are spending a substantial amount of money on the warden's mail proc with randuins, hence if you are not going to get any warden mail procs on relevant people you should just buy something else. Straight up. It's an aggressive item, it's mediocre for peeling.
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Kerp playing in a tournament, but shikyo isnt haunting Gd? What the?
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EPT
