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Remember guys, this is the general discussion thread. Keep whine/QQ posts in the appropriate QQ memorial thread! Thanks! |
On March 30 2012 16:45 ihasaKAROT wrote:
Someone wanna explain how Nocturne is suddenly so popular again?
M5 played him against clg and whoever they played for the finals because shyv, gp and something else was banned out from their jungler. People thought that his small e nerf made him unplayable because you couldn't catch people in it even after they flash (which happens sometimes now that they nerfed flash range by 50). Players are stupid, pros show that certain champions aren't bad etc.
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It's pretty much the norm for (good) supports to bring a pink ward bottom anyway. Against a Twitch lane I might even grab two. I can't imagine Twitch appearing behind a skilled enemy duo and surviving unless his support has already given the game away by sprinting madly towards the enemy so that they'll get there in time to do more than watch Twitch explode.
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On March 30 2012 16:52 SnK-Arcbound wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 16:45 ihasaKAROT wrote:
Someone wanna explain how Nocturne is suddenly so popular again? M5 played him against clg and whoever they played for the finals because shyv, gp and something else was banned out from their jungler. People thought that his small e nerf made him unplayable because you couldn't catch people in it even after they flash (which happens sometimes now that they nerfed flash range by 50). Players are stupid, pros show that certain champions aren't bad etc.
Actually Pros are the ones who whine the most about small balance changes and get rid of these heroes completely. e.g. wickd QQing all day about the irelia nerfs and saying she is not viable any more in any matchup :O
The majority of the LoL community is just heavily influenced by the opinion of the big streamers and just do not play these heroes either, without even thinking about the changes themselves. Same for which role should be on which lane, which itembuilds are viable etc. I really hate this thinking and you would never find it in any other Dota game, but I can't really name the reason for it :/
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United States37500 Posts
Fickle, fickle community.
Smash has been saying Noc is gud for many, many weeks now.
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On March 30 2012 16:58 Vallelol wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 16:52 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On March 30 2012 16:45 ihasaKAROT wrote:
Someone wanna explain how Nocturne is suddenly so popular again? M5 played him against clg and whoever they played for the finals because shyv, gp and something else was banned out from their jungler. People thought that his small e nerf made him unplayable because you couldn't catch people in it even after they flash (which happens sometimes now that they nerfed flash range by 50). Players are stupid, pros show that certain champions aren't bad etc. Actually Pros are the ones who whine the most about small balance changes and get rid of these heroes completely. e.g. wickd QQing all day about the irelia nerfs and saying she is not viable any more in any matchup :O The majority of the LoL community is just heavily influenced by the opinion of the big streamers and just do not play these heroes either, without even thinking about the changes themselves. Same for which role should be on which lane, which itembuilds are viable etc. I really hate this thinking and you would never find it in any other Dota game, but I can't really name the reason for it :/
Wickd has a hard time explaining what he means with the right words tho, making him allways exagerate one way or the other. He said about Irelia that theres just better sustain champions right now that get more out of their heals.
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On March 30 2012 17:00 ihasaKAROT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 16:58 Vallelol wrote:On March 30 2012 16:52 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On March 30 2012 16:45 ihasaKAROT wrote:
Someone wanna explain how Nocturne is suddenly so popular again? M5 played him against clg and whoever they played for the finals because shyv, gp and something else was banned out from their jungler. People thought that his small e nerf made him unplayable because you couldn't catch people in it even after they flash (which happens sometimes now that they nerfed flash range by 50). Players are stupid, pros show that certain champions aren't bad etc. Actually Pros are the ones who whine the most about small balance changes and get rid of these heroes completely. e.g. wickd QQing all day about the irelia nerfs and saying she is not viable any more in any matchup :O The majority of the LoL community is just heavily influenced by the opinion of the big streamers and just do not play these heroes either, without even thinking about the changes themselves. Same for which role should be on which lane, which itembuilds are viable etc. I really hate this thinking and you would never find it in any other Dota game, but I can't really name the reason for it :/ Wickd has a hard time explaining what he means with the right words tho, making him allways exagerate one way or the other. He said about Irelia that theres just better sustain champions right now that get more out of their heals.
Well yeah, but you get the idea. Pros say its not that viable anymore in the highest tier of gameplay, assuming perfect gameplay from eachother (and even then its very theoretically). And all the kids follow, saying you literally can not play it anymore, which is complete bullshit ;p
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Anyone think that urgot would be a good ad to pick up for terrible ad players like myself? Apparently I suck at ez, corki, and trist, not enough games with ashe (aka more than one). I mostly suck at being in position to autoattack, but not be able to be hit by the enemy team. A big fat "ad carry" to make up for the fact I can't position for shit and eat a lot of damage?
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On March 30 2012 17:27 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Anyone think that urgot would be a good ad to pick up for terrible ad players like myself? Apparently I suck at ez, corki, and trist, not enough games with ashe (aka more than one). I mostly suck at being in position to autoattack, but not be able to be hit by the enemy team. A big fat "ad carry" to make up for the fact I can't position for shit and eat a lot of damage?
No, his range is crap so you will still suffer horribly in teamfights from your bad positioning, unless you build him bruiser, which then negates this whole discussion because ostensibly you are trying to play AD carry.
Learn how to AD or just play other positions
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On March 30 2012 17:27 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Anyone think that urgot would be a good ad to pick up for terrible ad players like myself? Apparently I suck at ez, corki, and trist, not enough games with ashe (aka more than one). I mostly suck at being in position to autoattack, but not be able to be hit by the enemy team. A big fat "ad carry" to make up for the fact I can't position for shit and eat a lot of damage?
I'd suggest cait, started playing cait back when everyone said she was shit(before she was fotm) because I was new to ad carries and figured I'd have an easy time with the 650 range. It's a bit easier to position, you have an easier time in lane, you can just learn it slowly and move on to other ads when you feel you've gotten better.
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Graves. He's a big jerk. If you normally play bruisers him and urgot would probably work nicely for you.
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On March 30 2012 17:31 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 17:27 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Anyone think that urgot would be a good ad to pick up for terrible ad players like myself? Apparently I suck at ez, corki, and trist, not enough games with ashe (aka more than one). I mostly suck at being in position to autoattack, but not be able to be hit by the enemy team. A big fat "ad carry" to make up for the fact I can't position for shit and eat a lot of damage? No, his range is crap so you will still suffer horribly in teamfights from your bad positioning, unless you build him bruiser, which then negates this whole discussion because ostensibly you are trying to play AD carry. Learn how to AD or just play other positions
Agreed, however, I run bruiser urgot bottom and it works great (thanks m5) as long as your top and jungle do damage.
His range is really bad and you will suffer from trying too cs and harass. And positioning late game with urgot is like super important o.O.
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Try using flash to re-position during a teamfight if you're having trouble with that. Not to escape and run, but to put distance and keep attacking. Especially if you can flash into a bush so they lose target on you.
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Pantheon is good. Pantheon is fun. But Pantheon is more of a pubstomper.
If I felt confident about my real Elo I could raise closer to it by spamming Panth games then switching to other mains, but as it's not the case I guess I'll have to step away from him for the time it takes to improve other mains. 
And is Vayne hard, damn. Using Tumble to reposition backwards, then acquiring a target again is a lot of mouse movement, and my precision's too bad that I don't screw up and either Tumble into the enemy or missclick and walk back to them instead of attacking. >.> I'm def shit at ranged ADs.
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On March 30 2012 17:31 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 17:27 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Anyone think that urgot would be a good ad to pick up for terrible ad players like myself? Apparently I suck at ez, corki, and trist, not enough games with ashe (aka more than one). I mostly suck at being in position to autoattack, but not be able to be hit by the enemy team. A big fat "ad carry" to make up for the fact I can't position for shit and eat a lot of damage? No, his range is crap so you will still suffer horribly in teamfights from your bad positioning, unless you build him bruiser, which then negates this whole discussion because ostensibly you are trying to play AD carry. Learn how to AD or just play other positions
I do play other positions, but this if for the sad times where I'm stuck being ad and I'd rather not almost always lose the game for my team. Over 100 games with support, over 150 as jungle, and then 30-30-30 top mid ad bot.
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On March 30 2012 15:59 Fuzzmosis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 15:52 iCanada wrote:On March 30 2012 15:40 Fuzzmosis wrote:On March 30 2012 15:33 iCanada wrote:On March 30 2012 15:20 Fuzzmosis wrote:
Twitch beats Caitlyn bot lane. The high attack speed + bonus damage on each hit rather than 8 means Twitch will generally win a level 1, and his damage scales faster per level. This requires Twitch and his support to initiate fighting constantly, since Twitch cannot poke. Once you've got 2 kills, you've won the lane though.
Soraka/Caitlyn beats Twitch bottom lane. Poking without fear of reprisal damages the rat quite well (and most other AD's) and the second twitch appears, casting heal on the target suddenly means twitch is doing minimal damage. With no escapes and no range, it forces a disengage unless the 2 kill lead has already happened.
As a lesson if you face a Twitch: You do not escape late. You escape early and disengage, or you fight to the death. Flash/Net doesn't help you when you have 200 hp. I dunno, I Cait I prolly just auto the support as soon as Twitch stealths, then net him as soon as he unstealths and disengage. Forces twitch to either give up free damage on his support or engage, and both options kinda suck because Cait gets to do daage for longer and can disengage regardless. Net slow kicks the crap out of twitch W unless he got full passive stacks. Yeah expunge does the deeps and has stupid range. I've never played the matchup before but if it was me I would be keeping the engages short. Twitches skillset improves as fight goes on, and Cait poke king. I can see twitch winning, but I don't think it like a straight up counterpick. My gut tells me it more of a skill matchup, just no one ever plays Twitch so they not practiced on how to fight him. As someone who jungles twitch all the time (mostly when I kinda pissed) I think most people just suck at dealing with stealth in general. Stealth very much a Mechanic that either dominates hard or is just kinda meh depending on the opponent. But, like I said, I never play the matchup so I guess I have to go test it. ^_^ You never uncloak when your opponent can escape with just a net. And if you poke/chase their support, odds are you'll be putting yourself in a situation where Twitch has an easy engage against you. Or they have a bad support. Generally, you'd engage just after cait used her headshot, from behind, away from the creep wave, forcing Caitlyn to run (2-4 free hits) or fight. The downside: Too many engages like this where you can't out sustain cait and you fall way behind on farm. Remember, a good Twitch will not poke. He will avoid engagements until he can force a kill. His support will handle the poking unless you're very careless. Also, lane Twitch and Jungle Twitch are different beasts. Lane Twitch runes/builds are often out of neccesity for a level 1 win/low level wins. Jungle Twitch only ganks, so only fights at an advantage, so rune setup isn't for a strong early game, but jungle survival (since Twitch isn't exactly a jungle monster, just a gank one). This is true I suppose. I do still feel like a support that knows how to play against a twitch is going to nullify though. Many supports buy a pink to maintain brush control anyway, and especially when you lane with a Cait only time you gonna take auto damage is if you don't have brush control... so maintaining it important anyway. You have a pink in the brush/lane I don't see how a Twitch would be able to engage Cait from behind and away from creeps, or hard engage her at all really. Doesn't make sense to me. Anyway, I stop hassling you with theorycraft and go test it in game. Lane Twitch is my Twitch, so to me this is just experience. Granted, I rarely play ranked so I'm only 7/9 in Twitch bot lane in ranked matches (Yes, wow. I know. So many games). More advice: Drop pinks when minions can't see you. If I see a Pink placed in the middle of the lane, I'll waddle through bushes, go behind you, and engage from behind. If I don't see it, I'll try to walk through it and you should punish me. (Check Summoner Fuzzmosis in North America if you want to see my history. I'm thoroughly Mediocre, just love playing Twitch)
Twitch is a gimmick in lane. People either know how to play against him and he looses hard or they don't and then they loose hard.
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On March 30 2012 17:44 Alaric wrote:Pantheon is good. Pantheon is fun. But Pantheon is more of a pubstomper. If I felt confident about my real Elo I could raise closer to it by spamming Panth games then switching to other mains, but as it's not the case I guess I'll have to step away from him for the time it takes to improve other mains. And is Vayne hard, damn. Using Tumble to reposition backwards, then acquiring a target again is a lot of mouse movement, and my precision's too bad that I don't screw up and either Tumble into the enemy or missclick and walk back to them instead of attacking. >.> I'm def shit at ranged ADs.
What i've learned from playing too much solo queue is, that you gotta find a champion that can snowball hard if fed, but also lead your team in fights, in such way that you will almost always die last if you play correctly. Nocturne, lee sin but also warwick comes to mind.
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I'm not too bothered to play anything in soloQ (except range AD, spells doom for my team as I, at best, don't lose my lane by much), it's just that if I keep on playing Pantheon I'll inflate my Elo and suffer hard when I can't play him or any champ of the sort.
I need to learn a jungle carry (other than Olaf, so prob Noc) and wipe out the fust off of my mids, namely Viktor, Swain, Gragas, Ryze and maybe Galio. If I climb in Elo I want it to be legit, and I'm playing far too much top or jungle these days.
By the way, regarding team comps, I feel like I can't initiate as Olaf, especially when I start being too strong 1v1 (or even 2v2 or 3v3 unless teammates lost their lanes hard) and the enemy team groups up and, typically, camp mid for a face off. If only a skirmish I'd be able to just dive if needed, burst them, then get out of tower range and damage/kill it at the next wave, but it's hard to do in 5v5 come midgame as the fights are too dragged out for the tower not to be overwhelming.
Should I only pick Olaf (assuming jungle) if our top and/or mid is a strong initiator so I can enter the fight without being immediatly kited/focused down? Can't seem to join fights without popping ghost with him, and a contingency for eating most of the enemy burst. And TL already advised me to learn Udyr as a jungler but he suffers from the same problem.  Guess I need a champ who is a mix of tanky, initiator and dps (Maokai and Naut don't exactly carry by dps, Olaf and Trundle can't gap close and initiate properly), in case my team picks one of those comps.
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On March 30 2012 17:44 Alaric wrote:
And is Vayne hard, damn. Using Tumble to reposition backwards, then acquiring a target again is a lot of mouse movement, and my precision's too bad that I don't screw up and either Tumble into the enemy or missclick and walk back to them instead of attacking. >.> I'm def shit at ranged ADs.
Yeah Vayne is one of the most mechanically challenging champions. I went 1-12 in ranked with her before I finally figured it out. Sitting at 5-14 now, so significant improvement.
On March 30 2012 18:13 Sponkz wrote:
What i've learned from playing too much solo queue is, that you gotta find a champion that can snowball hard if fed, but also lead your team in fights, in such way that you will almost always die last if you play correctly. Nocturne, lee sin but also warwick comes to mind.
This is also extremely true. You generally want to find bruisers though, because a fed AD carry until 2-3 big items generally loses to a fed bruiser. Also bruisers let you force objectives far more easily than AD carry's.
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Olaf and Trundle cant initiate properly? Are we playing the same champions? If you hit that axe and run full speed, you can keep axing, and axing, and axing and axing till hes dead. Not to mention Trundle pillar
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On March 30 2012 18:41 ihasaKAROT wrote:
Olaf and Trundle cant initiate properly? Are we playing the same champions? If you hit that axe and run full speed, you can keep axing, and axing, and axing and axing till hes dead. Not to mention Trundle pillar
Olaf and trundle share the same problem like Garen. Against any competent team you need someone else to go in first, because the enemy's positioning is far greater. However at lower plays, your statement is very true.
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EPT
