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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content. Thanks. Happy Gaming. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On March 08 2012 08:48 Mogwai wrote: new blog post up, check it out: http://mogwaismusings.wordpress.com/2012/03/07/in-defense-of-lol/ also, neo, should I just make a new thread for my blog to keep these out of GD? You deserve your own thread. You promote critical thinking like it's your day job. | ||
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Hidden_MotiveS
Canada2562 Posts
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Offhand
United States1869 Posts
furry chinchilla (Riven) [00:32:07]: screwed in matchmaking furry chinchilla (Riven) [00:32:16]: got noob garen and thhey got 3 skins I should really start that "best of tribunal" idea I had a few days ago, so many terrible games produce these kinds of quotes. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On March 08 2012 09:57 Takkara wrote: But you can counter that with the popularity of fighting games. There's even fewer "variations" of strategy, but the beauty is in the execution. Watching people accomplish amazing things. That's the essence of both sport and eSport. I think two major things need to be there for a good E-Sport: 1) Skill should generally be rewarded - Better players should, on average, beat worse players. 2) Clutch must be possible - A game should be capable of producing moments that leave you in awe. I think Smash and our experience shows that LoL has both. The top of the Solo Queue ladder and the top of the tournament scene is reliably the top of the player base. And all you have to do is watch a couple tournaments, or, watch the LoL plays of the week videos that get put out by like Protatomonster. This game has the 'it' factor that makes it succeed. Independent of "difficulty", independent of "mechanics", independent of "casualness". BW has it, SC2 has it, LoL has it, DotA2 has it (imho), Quake has it, MK9 has it, MVC has it, Halo has it. I apologize for missing anything, but I honestly enjoy all of those games, though I only really follow LoL, BW, and SC2 seriously. It's stupid and pointless to try and drive wedges between communities and enforce some imaginary pecking order in ESports when there is none. i dont think your first thing carries much weight at all. imagine competitive cup and ball. it is possible to be better even at such a simplistic game. i actually cant think of any game where skill has no barrier, except for games which dont have a real time component. turn based games have extremely low skill caps because you have all the time in the world to think, therefor its humanly possible to play 100% correct, in any real time game you can always be faster, meaning theres always more skill. secondly i think you are confusing clutch play with awe. a clutch play is simply a demonstration of higher than normal skill. if this is all you mean with moments of awe, i think lol is extremely lacking. penta kills, the easiest to identify 'high skill moments' in lol are normally a result of 1 team player horrendously rather than another playing amazing, i know this is completely subjective but i really struggle to find clutch play in lol. something i didnt touch on in my first post was the lack of micro in lol. the only 'micro' in lol is basically juking skill shots. although a decent display of reactions and mind games i dont think theres enough of it mainly due to the lack of skill shots in lol. i think the game would be much more excting if atleast 2/4 of every champs spells required aiming. dodging 1 skill is something, but dodging a chain of skills would really show impressive skill that would really wow an audience. think of it in sc2 terms. even a diamond level scrub can do '1 dodge' of a baneling, separating their marines into 2 distinct packs. but only the tip top fastest pros separate time and again to minimize losses. if lol could emulate that kind of micro intensive moments of play i think the skill cap would be a ton higher. now i know there is the teamwork component in lol but i really find it hard to quantify that, plus so much of the game is spent in a 1v1 situation anyway, it waters down the teamwork effect. | ||
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Hidden_MotiveS
Canada2562 Posts
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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Terranasaur
United States2085 Posts
On March 08 2012 11:12 Offhand wrote: I should really start that "best of tribunal" idea I had a few days ago, so many terrible games produce these kinds of quotes. We have one  | ||
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Offhand
United States1869 Posts
On March 08 2012 10:34 RageOverdose wrote: So what's a good mage setup for mid? I'm not really sure what to do. When I play Kass I go for a more tanky setup because I have to be able to resist harass due to my range pre-6 (of course, when I hit 6 I get a lot more flexibility in most cases). But when I do other mages, like Veigar or Lux, I'm not sure how to really benefit the most from my runes. Should I amplify their strengths (Lux's cooldowns and Veigar's regen) or should I compensate for a couple weaknesses like Kassadin? I usually use mPen reds, AP Quints, and AP/level blues, but the yellows I don't know what to do. I get HP/level for general survivability but I'm wondering if mana regen or flat resistances are better? I have two AP mod pages. One for early/midgame rofl stompers (Lux, Xerath, LB, etc) and one for lategame monsters (Morg, Veigar, Karthus). So the trade off is flat/scaling AP blues and flat/scaling MP5 seals. Always running mpen marks and flat AP quints. Akali and Ryze are also bitches who demands their own runepages, but I really like them mid regardless. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On March 08 2012 09:49 turdburgler wrote: i dont actually feel smash did a good job of refuting the point that starcraft is a harder game than lol. he simply argued that mechanical skill isnt the only metric for difficulty, which i agree with. i think for me, the reason i see starcraft as a harder game (not to say lol cant be an esport of blah blah) is the way that building placement works. in lol, your 'build' is 6 simple items which everyone can see and which have only a simplistic effect on the game. a bf sword makes you hit harder, yay. in starcraft theres a whole mini game of building choices and placement, proxy buildings, hidden tech to avoid scouting, number of rax compared to factories affecting your composition, making a quick tech to something then rarely using it again (cloaked banshees for example) compared to in lol, you dont see people doing a sherelias rush then selling it back down to a philo stone and picking up boots instead. maybe as lol grows you might just see the nature of items etc changing or whatever, but i truely believe that starcraft is a harder game in more ways than simply mechanical muscle memory tasks. and again, im not saying i dont enjoy lol, or lol cant be a sport. many sports are simplistic and are still exciting, some are more complex, i dont see that as a metric for esportyness. Maybe i communicated the point of the post poorly then. I'm not trying to say LoL is a harder game than SC or anything of the sort. Rather, I'm trying to point out that a lot of the reasons people give for blindly disliking it when stacking it next to SC or DotA are simplistic and foolish ways of trying to quantify difficulty and that LoL deserves more respect at this point in time than it's given by a lot of people who shrug it aside as, "that casual form of DotA." | ||
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Hidden_MotiveS
Canada2562 Posts
On March 08 2012 11:27 Juicyfruit wrote: You could probably do it, but AP yi requires more gold than regular Yi to do anything so... Thanks. | ||
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Zdrastochye
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
On March 08 2012 11:56 Mogwai wrote: Maybe i communicated the point of the post poorly then. I'm not trying to say LoL is a harder game than SC or anything of the sort. Rather, I'm trying to point out that a lot of the reasons people give for blindly disliking it when stacking it next to SC or DotA are simplistic and foolish ways of trying to quantify difficulty and that LoL deserves more respect at this point in time than it's given by a lot of people who shrug it aside as, "that casual form of DotA." Maybe I'm not good at speaking for other people, but from what I assume from several arguments I've been involved/seen go on in TL, there's a general fear that a game with less mechanics will in turn create a fanbase for "easy to play games". Nobody can really argue that a majority of mechanics in League can be learned/mastered within a month or so of dedicated improvement time - whereas in both SC2 and BW you need months of honing and fine tuning before you're even able to take a single game off a pro player. I don't agree with it, but I at least can understand that "casual games" have fan bases of mostly casual players, and a pro scene that really isn't that big (solo q being the focus rather than arranged 5s outside of LANs/go4lol/etc) considering how many casual players there are. | ||
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miicah
Australia2470 Posts
http://db.tt/ni5hpCQv It's a runes/masteries calculator that shows your single target dps against minions. It's mainly for AD junglers and is pretty sparce atm. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On March 08 2012 11:56 Mogwai wrote: Maybe i communicated the point of the post poorly then. I'm not trying to say LoL is a harder game than SC or anything of the sort. Rather, I'm trying to point out that a lot of the reasons people give for blindly disliking it when stacking it next to SC or DotA are simplistic and foolish ways of trying to quantify difficulty and that LoL deserves more respect at this point in time than it's given by a lot of people who shrug it aside as, "that casual form of DotA." i agree on that for sure. all the most popular, and therefor competitive sports in the world are actually the simplest. put the ball in the net is a common concept, but from that simplicity the large player base enables deep strategy to be developed. where as in more basically complex games the smaller player pools lead to stagnation and shall tactical knowledge. a kind of paradox where simpler games become more complex. so people bashing any game for simplicity are being naive | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
I honestly think any high masters players understand this and it is mostly the shitty majority of the SC2 community that trashes other games. | ||
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Hidden_MotiveS
Canada2562 Posts
traps first. Heal maxed. Harass and use bush. Then getting wriggles to counterpush. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On March 08 2012 12:19 UniversalSnip wrote: nobody plays put the ball in the net. they play relatively complex games with lots of rules about how you can touch the ball. you find the rules of either basketball or football "complex"? | ||
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Zdrastochye
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
On March 08 2012 12:23 Bladeorade wrote: What I don't understand is why people think SC2 is difficult. Game is not difficult to learn how to play. Everything is dumbed down and getting good doesn't take all that long. A couple months dedicated and you can hit masters. I honestly think any high masters players understand this and it is mostly the shitty majority of the SC2 community that trashes other games. If you actually hit masters in SC2, you've come a long way mechanically from just starting, especially so if it's your first RTS. The concept of last hitting, paying attention to the minimap, and landing skillshots seems a lot easier than managing all the actions required over the course of a SC2 game. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On March 08 2012 12:33 turdburgler wrote: you find the rules of either basketball or football "complex"? international basketball federation rulebook is 80 pages long | ||
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bmn
886 Posts
On March 08 2012 12:33 turdburgler wrote: you find the rules of either basketball or football "complex"? Much, much more complex than "put the ball in the net." And yet "put the ball in the net" is not the most popular sport. | ||
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