EPTYou have advantage for being french you think of these things.
[Patch 1.0.0.135: Fiora] General Discussion - Page 85
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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content. Thanks. Happy Gaming. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
You have advantage for being french you think of these things. | ||
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Takkara
United States2503 Posts
On March 08 2012 08:48 Mogwai wrote: new blog post up, check it out: http://mogwaismusings.wordpress.com/2012/03/07/in-defense-of-lol/ also, neo, should I just make a new thread for my blog to keep these out of GD? MOBAs test a different skillset than RTSs, and while it’s perfectly acceptable to be more impressed by one than another, it’s foolish to act like one’s preferences are objective fact. Dear God Smash will you please have my babies? This sentence is the most succinct way to phrase something I've been trying to say forever about SC2 vs BW vs LoL vs HoN vs DotA2. Everyone should have to read this blog before being allowed to post about MOBAs, or at the very least read that line. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On March 08 2012 08:25 Navi wrote: mundo is actually the closest comparison to olaf that i think legitimately makes sense their cc redux, skillshot nukes and high damage at close quarters due to steroids / olaf's e are pretty good comparisons It may be true that Mundo is the closest comparison to Olaf, but "closest" is relative; the two remain very different. They appear similar at the highest conceptual level, but dive into the details and the two diverge significantly. As an example consider their Qs. At the highest conceptual level both are skillshot nukes that apply a slow, but the similarities end at the details. Mundo's Q is single target, can't pass through minions, does magic damage, doesn't scale with any personal attributes, costs health (not mana), and applies the full slow with just one rank. Olaf's Q is AoE, can pass through minions, does physical damage, scales with AD, costs mana, increases its slow with each rank, and has a special positional benefit. While the most basic of descriptions makes these abilities sound similar, in reality that basic description and their range is all they have in common. Such comparisons can be made for each apparent similarity. You only need to take a small step down from the high level to see that the two champions are unique beasts who are best in different situations. | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
On March 08 2012 09:38 Seuss wrote: It may be true that Mundo is the closest comparison to Olaf, but "closest" is relative; the two remain very different. They appear similar at the highest conceptual level, but dive into the details and the two diverge significantly. As an example consider their Qs. At the highest conceptual level both are skillshot nukes that apply a slow, but the similarities end at the details. Mundo's Q is single target, can't pass through minions, does magic damage, doesn't scale with any personal attributes, costs health (not mana), and applies the full slow with just one rank. Olaf's Q is AoE, can pass through minions, does physical damage, scales with AD, costs mana, increases its slow with each rank, and has a special positional benefit. While the most basic of descriptions makes these abilities sound similar, in reality that basic description and their range is all they have in common. Such comparisons can be made for each apparent similarity. You only need to take a small step down from the high level to see that the two champions are unique beasts who are best in different situations. u can say that about every champion. what's the point? someone tried to make a comparison, its a working comparison ofc no two champions are identical or close enough but some are more comparable than others | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
On March 08 2012 09:35 Slayer91 wrote: You have advantage for being french you think of these things. And I had saw dat on Reddit : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=303850¤tpage=167#3327 | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On March 08 2012 09:37 Takkara wrote: Dear God Smash will you please have my babies? This sentence is the most succinct way to phrase something I've been trying to say forever about SC2 vs BW vs LoL vs HoN vs DotA2. Everyone should have to read this blog before being allowed to post about MOBAs, or at the very least read that line. i dont actually feel smash did a good job of refuting the point that starcraft is a harder game than lol. he simply argued that mechanical skill isnt the only metric for difficulty, which i agree with. i think for me, the reason i see starcraft as a harder game (not to say lol cant be an esport of blah blah) is the way that building placement works. in lol, your 'build' is 6 simple items which everyone can see and which have only a simplistic effect on the game. a bf sword makes you hit harder, yay. in starcraft theres a whole mini game of building choices and placement, proxy buildings, hidden tech to avoid scouting, number of rax compared to factories affecting your composition, making a quick tech to something then rarely using it again (cloaked banshees for example) compared to in lol, you dont see people doing a sherelias rush then selling it back down to a philo stone and picking up boots instead. maybe as lol grows you might just see the nature of items etc changing or whatever, but i truely believe that starcraft is a harder game in more ways than simply mechanical muscle memory tasks. and again, im not saying i dont enjoy lol, or lol cant be a sport. many sports are simplistic and are still exciting, some are more complex, i dont see that as a metric for esportyness. | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
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wussleeQ
United States3130 Posts
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Navi
5286 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On March 08 2012 09:43 Navi wrote: u can say that about every champion. what's the point? someone tried to make a comparison, its a working comparison ofc no two champions are identical or close enough but some are more comparable than others The general point is that this started with a rhetorical question, "Why pick Olaf when you can pick Mundo?" which implies there are few if any situations where Olaf is useful compared to Mundo. I've been emphasizing how different the two champions are under the misguided assumption that doing so will make self-evident how odd that implication is. Really what I should have done from the outset was write: "While Olaf and Mundo share a few similarities they bring very different things to a team and should be picked according to what the situation demands." | ||
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Takkara
United States2503 Posts
On March 08 2012 09:49 turdburgler wrote: i dont actually feel smash did a good job of refuting the point that starcraft is a harder game than starcraft. he simply argued that mechanical skill isnt the only metric for difficulty, which i agree with. i think for me, the reason i see starcraft as a harder game (not to say lol cant be an esport of blah blah) is the way that building placement works. in lol, your 'build' is 6 simple items which everyone can see and which have only a simplistic effect on the game. a bf sword makes you hit harder, yay. in starcraft theres a whole mini game of building choices and placement, proxy buildings, hidden tech to avoid scouting, number of rax compared to factories affecting your composition, making a quick tech to something then rarely using it again (cloaked banshees for example) compared to in lol, you dont see people doing a sherelias rush then selling it back down to a philo stone and picking up boots instead. maybe as lol grows you might just see the nature of items etc changing or whatever, but i truely believe that starcraft is a harder game in more ways than simply mechanical muscle memory tasks. and again, im not saying i dont enjoy lol, or lol cant be a sport. many sports are simplistic and are still exciting, some are more complex, i dont see that as a metric for esportyness. But you can counter that with the popularity of fighting games. There's even fewer "variations" of strategy, but the beauty is in the execution. Watching people accomplish amazing things. That's the essence of both sport and eSport. I think two major things need to be there for a good E-Sport: 1) Skill should generally be rewarded - Better players should, on average, beat worse players. 2) Clutch must be possible - A game should be capable of producing moments that leave you in awe. I think Smash and our experience shows that LoL has both. The top of the Solo Queue ladder and the top of the tournament scene is reliably the top of the player base. And all you have to do is watch a couple tournaments, or, watch the LoL plays of the week videos that get put out by like Protatomonster. This game has the 'it' factor that makes it succeed. Independent of "difficulty", independent of "mechanics", independent of "casualness". BW has it, SC2 has it, LoL has it, DotA2 has it (imho), Quake has it, MK9 has it, MVC has it, Halo has it. I apologize for missing anything, but I honestly enjoy all of those games, though I only really follow LoL, BW, and SC2 seriously. It's stupid and pointless to try and drive wedges between communities and enforce some imaginary pecking order in ESports when there is none. | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On March 08 2012 09:43 Navi wrote: u can say that about every champion. what's the point? someone tried to make a comparison, its a working comparison ofc no two champions are identical or close enough but some are more comparable than others You can also boil things down too simply and in this case I think people overstepped. The way I look at it they just do different things with a team. Olaf scales (or at least scaled) way better late game. Remember Olaf + Zilean? That kind of suicidal unstoppable team diving defined him. Mundo is defined by fairly poor scaling. cleavers, and self heal, and does a lot better attrition-wise. He's a threat to carries like every tanky DPS but people calling him the same just leave me scratching my head. Even if Mundo > Olaf in every capacity that's just a factor of Olaf ult nerfs. Xerath > AP Kog but they're not actually that similar. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On March 08 2012 09:52 wussleeQ wrote: didn't mog have a post on the forums a long ass time ago about baker panth? like a year? im starting to think it's not generally known what his joke is which makes sense, it's not that funny | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On March 08 2012 10:00 UniversalSnip wrote: im starting to think it's not generally known what his joke is which makes sense, it's not that funny You shut up. That movie was awesome. The first time at least. | ||
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wussleeQ
United States3130 Posts
On March 08 2012 10:00 UniversalSnip wrote: im starting to think it's not generally known what his joke is which makes sense, it's not that funny i'm not entirely sure on what the post was about but there was a post on the LoL website with baker panth skin idea a long time ago. his joke is from 300 isn't it? | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On March 08 2012 10:10 wussleeQ wrote: i'm not entirely sure on what the post was about but there was a post on the LoL website with baker panth skin idea a long time ago. his joke is from 300 isn't it? "getting kicked into a well is the least of your worries | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
my profession etc | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On March 08 2012 10:30 UniversalSnip wrote: hurm maybe it's not his joke. one of his things he says my profession etc Its his joke- a two parter. "MY PROFESSION!" "Well, now that I think about it, I've always wanted to be a baker" | ||
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RageOverdose
United States690 Posts
I'm not really sure what to do. When I play Kass I go for a more tanky setup because I have to be able to resist harass due to my range pre-6 (of course, when I hit 6 I get a lot more flexibility in most cases). But when I do other mages, like Veigar or Lux, I'm not sure how to really benefit the most from my runes. Should I amplify their strengths (Lux's cooldowns and Veigar's regen) or should I compensate for a couple weaknesses like Kassadin? I usually use mPen reds, AP Quints, and AP/level blues, but the yellows I don't know what to do. I get HP/level for general survivability but I'm wondering if mana regen or flat resistances are better? | ||
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