EPT[Patch 1.0.0.135: Fiora] General Discussion - Page 22
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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content. Thanks. Happy Gaming. | ||
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BlueSpace
Germany2182 Posts
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dignity
Canada908 Posts
On March 01 2012 19:27 BlueSpace wrote: I noticed something in Snoopeh's video about Fioras ult that looks a bit problematic. She will not return to the original target if that target dies during the execution of the ult. Also she acquires new targets if people walk into her ult range while she is ulting. In the video it actually kills him because the ult pulls him into another Fiora while he and Ryze are killing Maokai. That is kind of an extreme case but when executed in team fights you might end up quite randomly positioned after ulting if your original target is dead. I found this out as well. Luckily I was just testing in a bot game (was lagging at the time). Killed a ryze and ended up on a tristana. It seems you end up on the next person you hit. | ||
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57 Corvette
Canada5941 Posts
Edit: Speaking of that swain game, somehow i glitched and when my character respawned, i was in demon bird form. I wasn't shooting out crows, but I had the demon bird form jokes and taunt, Swain turned back to normal form when i turned the ult on/off, and then i died before i could re-activate it. | ||
turdburgler
England6749 Posts
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Schwopzi
Netherlands954 Posts
On March 01 2012 22:54 turdburgler wrote: but didnt phreak specifically use the parry to stop nasus in the spotlight? If you reread what you quoted you might find something out. Like how jax isn't a lady with a phony french àccènt. | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
Whatever it is it's annoying as heck. | ||
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On March 01 2012 22:37 57 Corvette wrote: So, does anyone know of any definitive counters to fiora top lane? I tried swain and got wrecked (and he isn't supposed to lose to melees T_T) Edit: Speaking of that swain game, somehow i glitched and when my character respawned, i was in demon bird form. I wasn't shooting out crows, but I had the demon bird form jokes and taunt, Swain turned back to normal form when i turned the ult on/off, and then i died before i could re-activate it. I never felt like Swain was all that good against anyone with a gap closer. Reliably dodging nevermove hurts his ability to dominate you quite a bit. It's not like he gets shut down, but I feel like he has a harder time against anyone who can be in his face constantly. I don't see Fiora beating WW, Trynd, Irelia, Nida, WuKong, Kennen, GP... Basically anyone, really. I admittedly haven't tried her yet, but passive doesn't seem any decent and her steroid is pretty meh. I have seen that Snoopeh VoD and her jungle looks okayish if you decide to farm 24/7. I'd guess she can do dragon on her own pretty early on, too. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21736 Posts
She should get countered by WW tho. he will heal more from his passive in trades even without counting Q. | ||
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BlueSpace
Germany2182 Posts
On March 01 2012 23:03 Shiv. wrote: I never felt like Swain was all that good against anyone with a gap closer. Reliably dodging nevermove hurts his ability to dominate you quite a bit. It's not like he gets shut down, but I feel like he has a harder time against anyone who can be in his face constantly. I don't see Fiora beating WW, Trynd, Irelia, Nida, WuKong, Kennen, GP... Basically anyone, really. I admittedly haven't tried her yet, but passive doesn't seem any decent and her steroid is pretty meh. I have seen that Snoopeh VoD and her jungle looks okayish if you decide to farm 24/7. I'd guess she can do dragon on her own pretty early on, too. Would it be feasible to start long sword and rush a phage when jungeling? She has a good gap closer and her AS steroid will make sure to get a proc off. Her ganks seemed to be on the weak side without any kind of cc. Or would the lack of wriggles totally gimp her clear speed? | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21736 Posts
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Schwopzi
Netherlands954 Posts
On March 01 2012 23:03 Shiv. wrote: I never felt like Swain was all that good against anyone with a gap closer. Reliably dodging nevermove hurts his ability to dominate you quite a bit. It's not like he gets shut down, but I feel like he has a harder time against anyone who can be in his face constantly. I don't see Fiora beating WW, Trynd, Irelia, Nida, WuKong, Kennen, GP... Basically anyone, really. I admittedly haven't tried her yet, but passive doesn't seem any decent and her steroid is pretty meh. I have seen that Snoopeh VoD and her jungle looks okayish if you decide to farm 24/7. I'd guess she can do dragon on her own pretty early on, too. Has anyone tested parry vs gp's parley yet? For some reason I thought it would work and fiora would stomp gp in lane hard but haven't had the chance to try it out yet. From my few games I played so far with fiora top it feels like she can't forcewin a lane (like gp can, qqqqqqqq go b or die) but is really strong against champs that rely on forcing you out of lane. Also vs kennen it seems pretty doable to farmfest it up as long as you dodge shurikens. His q is dodgeable and his normal autos don't do too much damage. Parrey his charged autos -> farmfest? You can also ult during his ult to be a total dickwad if he tries to kill you. | ||
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NoobieOne
United States1183 Posts
On March 01 2012 23:03 Shiv. wrote: I never felt like Swain was all that good against anyone with a gap closer. Reliably dodging nevermove hurts his ability to dominate you quite a bit. It's not like he gets shut down, but I feel like he has a harder time against anyone who can be in his face constantly. I don't see Fiora beating WW, Trynd, Irelia, Nida, WuKong, Kennen, GP... Basically anyone, really. I admittedly haven't tried her yet, but passive doesn't seem any decent and her steroid is pretty meh. I have seen that Snoopeh VoD and her jungle looks okayish if you decide to farm 24/7. I'd guess she can do dragon on her own pretty early on, too. Played a few games as Riven vs Fiora and one game as Fiora vs Riven. I feel that Riven seems to be a strong counter to Fiora since her strength in these lanes is the early AA damage which riven's passive has the bonus on and post 6 unless Fiora builds tanky Riven should be able to 100-0 her. Also I've had trouble playing as Fiora playing against Irelia and saw a Fiora (played by a friend who normally plays assassins like talon and LB) go 0-5 in lane vs a GP | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On March 01 2012 23:03 Shiv. wrote: I never felt like Swain was all that good against anyone with a gap closer. Reliably dodging nevermove hurts his ability to dominate you quite a bit. It's not like he gets shut down, but I feel like he has a harder time against anyone who can be in his face constantly. I don't see Fiora beating WW, Trynd, Irelia, Nida, WuKong, Kennen, GP... Basically anyone, really. I admittedly haven't tried her yet, but passive doesn't seem any decent and her steroid is pretty meh. I have seen that Snoopeh VoD and her jungle looks okayish if you decide to farm 24/7. I'd guess she can do dragon on her own pretty early on, too. wat, swain thrashes melee with gap closers, especially melee with targeted gap closer (only exception might be talon because of silence). Once you've used that shit on swain, you're guaranteed to eat a full lazerbird, while swain gets away scot free, if he has even remotely good reflexes. You don't harass as swain by randomly tossing out nevermoves trying to hit somebody (which is asking to get your shit dodged), you patiently farm and abuse how insanely strong your e + auto harass is. | ||
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NoobieOne
United States1183 Posts
On March 01 2012 23:29 barbsq wrote: wat, swain thrashes melee with gap closers, especially melee with targeted gap closer (only exception might be talon because of silence). Once you've used that shit on swain, you're guaranteed to eat a full lazerbird, while swain gets away scot free, if he has even remotely good reflexes. You don't harass as swain by randomly tossing out nevermoves trying to hit somebody (which is asking to get your shit dodged), you patiently farm and abuse how insanely strong your e + auto harass is. When i was doing Fiora a trick I saw was to walk up to the champion make them blow the skill (in this case Lazor) and then dash away to break the leash then dash back in. Dash is your least valuable cd vs one of swain's most valuable. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Also I don't see her outtrading Irelia, since her steroid is so short, as soon as she gets lower %hp Fiora gets stunned and loses from 1/3 to 2/3 of her steroid. Fiora probably has far superior harass and sustain than Irelia in the first levels tho. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21736 Posts
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
On March 01 2012 23:39 Alaric wrote: If you dash back in he'll nevermove you (you'll damage him more than if he hit Q tho). Also I don't see her outtrading Irelia, since her steroid is so short, as soon as she gets lower %hp Fiora gets stunned and loses from 1/3 to 2/3 of her steroid. Fiora probably has far superior harass and sustain than Irelia in the first levels tho. Irelia is not going to be able to pressure Fiora but she should not lose to much CS and Irelia has a 2 second stun lategame. Going EWWEWR makes it a pretty easy lane. | ||
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Rixxe
United Kingdom136 Posts
I find that for example when i play Taric support, if i'm similar level +- 1, i can actually make a difference in a team fight. I.e. Stun + blow heals and take a bit of a beating before the rest of the team does their stuff. In pro games, the support just gets 1 shot, or can't do any damage/healing compared to what it could if it got some levels. | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On March 01 2012 23:33 NoobieOne wrote: When i was doing Fiora a trick I saw was to walk up to the champion make them blow the skill (in this case Lazor) and then dash away to break the leash then dash back in. Dash is your least valuable cd vs one of swain's most valuable. i don't see this working at all, because by the time you've dashed back, swain has moved back a bit out of your range, but well within his. Not to mention how predictable that makes you, making nevermove easier to hit, as well as the free damage you just took from an e + a few ticks of lazerbird. Honestly, I can't say that i've played this matchup so i have no direct experience, but seeing how well swain deals with other melee in general, even ones with gap closer (i've seen renektons try something similar to miserable failure), this seems destined to be a bad matchup. On March 02 2012 00:14 Rixxe wrote: Quick question, Why in Pro games do the pros let supports end up being low level? I find that for example when i play Taric support, if i'm similar level +- 1, i can actually make a difference in a team fight. I.e. Stun + blow heals and take a bit of a beating before the rest of the team does their stuff. In pro games, the support just gets 1 shot, or can't do any damage/healing compared to what it could if it got some levels. it's not just pro games, this just happens in general because A) the majority of the game, supports are expected to be with somebody, so you're almost always getting duo lane exp, and B) you have to leave the lane for various reasons including, but not limited to, warding/counterwarding, as well as being expected to be a first responder for counterganking when enemy junglers invade (on your side ofc). as far as why it's ok, well as a support, you have to figure out the time periods where you can really be aggressive and are able to tank some hits and discover the point where you simply can't do that, and then shift to peel mode. Essentially, your job isn't either to tank damage or even to heal, necessarily, but to do whatever it takes to protect your ranged AD as primary goal #1, and your AP as a secondary goal. Ofc, sometimes this includes healing and tanking damage, but more often it's about the cc or the extra effects (auras, etc) you bring to the table. Many supports excel in the late game because they are so incredibly strong at simply keeping pesky bruisers away, and most of those supports typically don't need levels to do so. | ||
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
On March 02 2012 00:14 Rixxe wrote: Quick question, Why in Pro games do the pros let supports end up being low level? I find that for example when i play Taric support, if i'm similar level +- 1, i can actually make a difference in a team fight. I.e. Stun + blow heals and take a bit of a beating before the rest of the team does their stuff. In pro games, the support just gets 1 shot, or can't do any damage/healing compared to what it could if it got some levels. This is personal but i personally think it has to do with mid game where carry does not need support when farming. Its better to have support run around helping other lanes and while it is imo worse lategame its better mid game. | ||
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