I think alistar is garbage cause dna went 0-7 on him one TL B game.
Anyway, if you watched westrice's stream about 1.5 hours ago he went over the whole dan thing. Dan makes a decent amount streaming and devotes a lot of time managing solomid in general anyway so he can concentrate more on that now. (and casting) But his play is subpar and anyone who watches him knows that. (weird builds, does silly stuff ingame, bad mechanics compared to other top players...) westeice was trying ro be nice by not mentioning that onstream :p
EG were together recently discussing their future with dyrus leaving and what roles they would need. They felt that dan wasn't up to par playing ad carry and his jungling is still subpar, and that 1 month until the next big tourny isn't enough time to really get a lot better on any role. When they talked to dan about it he entirely agreed with them and said how he was thinking of sitting out too. So now he's essentially on the bench and they're looking for a new jungler and a new top lane/ad. If they get a top laner westrice will be ad, and if they get an AD then visa-versa. He feels it's better foe the team as a whole because dyrus rarely communicated with them (but he communicates with regi well) and mow they can consolidate their team to specific roles and get really good at said roles. At least that was everything he said before he typed up that response.
On March 16 2012 13:47 NeoIllusions wrote: EG (-Dan, +Clarkey and Wings) scrimming 4Not atm.
4Not bot running Cait/Sona with Promote. :o
split push all day every day. i genuinely think promote might be seen more often if people gave it a chance. that big minion has infinity hp and tons of damage, im curious how much gold it would have to make for people to feel it was worth it.
On March 16 2012 13:47 NeoIllusions wrote: EG (-Dan, +Clarkey and Wings) scrimming 4Not atm.
4Not bot running Cait/Sona with Promote. :o
split push all day every day. i genuinely think promote might be seen more often if people gave it a chance. that big minion has infinity hp and tons of damage, im curious how much gold it would have to make for people to feel it was worth it.
No one gives Promote or Surge a chance. I'm utterly clueless about Surge's viability but I'm positive Promote has a place in certain comps.
surge es number 1 on ap kog. i think people see summoners as 'oh shit' buttons. flash, heal, ignite to finish people off. its easy to identify, if i had flash or ignite i get an extra kill here. but promote, its not such an obvious reward, surge too.
I've always wondered what to run as an offensive summoner on ap kog, because if you are in range to use exhaust or ignite you are out of position. Now that you mention it Surge does sound like a decent idea, I usually just run double defensive summoners on him right now.
This experimentation with Promote is exactly what we were discussing a few pages back. Top teams do not immediately know "Oh, Promote is awesome! Let's use it in the next tournament". Unless the power (or lack thereof) discrepency is huge, it takes time and effort to evaluate the effectiveness of a new gameplay option. Teams are running it bot, running it top, running it with and without an AS amplifier, and so on. Players are going to need a lot of games, with their team, to see if it's something worth running. Hell, they probably need a few more games to determine if it's even worth testing that intensively.
And unlike champions, poor Promote didn't even recieve a rationalization on why it was bad. It was a given after like 3 days.
On March 16 2012 13:47 NeoIllusions wrote: EG (-Dan, +Clarkey and Wings) scrimming 4Not atm.
4Not bot running Cait/Sona with Promote. :o
split push all day every day. i genuinely think promote might be seen more often if people gave it a chance. that big minion has infinity hp and tons of damage, im curious how much gold it would have to make for people to feel it was worth it.
No one gives Promote or Surge a chance. I'm utterly clueless about Surge's viability but I'm positive Promote has a place in certain comps.
In theory surge should have its use for champions like Jax, Kogmaw, Teemo, Twisted Fate, Fizz and Evelynn and even Orianna or actually even Shen... I don't really understand why it's not used as a second slot summoner at all, it lasts for 12 seconds which is nearly an entire fight and at max level gives 40% aspd and 86 AP which is like 2800 worth of stats, also on quite a short cooldown. Sure it might not be the best summoner but it should have its place.
And people should start running it on Chogath, not only because of synergy with E but because 6 stack Chogath with Surge on makes it so that you can't see anything else in the whole screen so it's like a 12 second global blind
I think the problem is that you need Flash for one summoner and not having Ignite/Exhaust for the other one puts you at a pretty major disadvantage in lane. The only people that can really reasonably take Promote are either AD or support.
Hm, so no Aphromoo. Of those choices I would love to see MashMe in a pro team again after he left/got kicked off/whatever with Dignitas and then leaving/getting kicked off/whatever with Curse. MashMe's legit good at AD carry too. I'd also prefer Lapaka but we'll see what happens there too. Not to mention I feel like they need an AD carry a lot more than a solo top. Westrice's play as AD carry has never impressed me and while he fails at solo top from time to time too when he does well he does extremely well.
As for promote/surge, as far as botlane goes neither spell benefits the AD carry that much (surge isn't terrible but I'd much rather have Heal/Cleanse if I'm not running Ignite/Exhaust) and if you support gets one of the two then you immediately have to play a passive lane because the other team will have an Exhaust/Ignite that your team doesn't. And frankly if my support isn't going to get an offensive summoner spell I'd much prefer them to have CV instead of promote or surge. Not sure how viable promote/surge would be for top, again if you're not getting an offensive summoner at top I feel like TP would be better.
I don't think the problem is that those spells are bad as much as you don't have anywhere to fit them because other spells are so much better on various characters and if you don't take a spell to help you lane CV/TP seem to be way stronger to me than promote.
I love Promote, but I think it'd be better if the gold it generated was more consistent. It can split push through 2 towers all by itself, but it is mediocre in laning phase and super late game. The former because you can't count on it to get you gold while you zone or buy, the latter because Super Minions can't be Promoted. Just my opinions, obviously. I only run it on one champion.
On March 16 2012 13:47 NeoIllusions wrote: EG (-Dan, +Clarkey and Wings) scrimming 4Not atm.
4Not bot running Cait/Sona with Promote. :o
split push all day every day. i genuinely think promote might be seen more often if people gave it a chance. that big minion has infinity hp and tons of damage, im curious how much gold it would have to make for people to feel it was worth it.
No one gives Promote or Surge a chance. I'm utterly clueless about Surge's viability but I'm positive Promote has a place in certain comps.
an AP kog'maw could potentially use surge, as he doesn't usually get close enough to ignite, and benefits from both stats. Unfortunately that's a really niche situation with him being a long-range, AP, non-burst, auto-attacking champ.
ignite is simply better for (true) damage and for anti-heal.
On March 16 2012 11:24 Mystogun wrote: How do you guys improve? When I played more starcraft, it was a lot easier to just practice BOs and spam ladder games. However, with LoL soloq, you can't always get the champ or role you want to practice. What's the mentality for improving here when you're always doing something different with completely different people?
get a team of 5 people or insta lock 1 and only 1 champion in blind pick basically just always try your hardest to win and improve, also analyzing replays works somewhat similar, think about what u should be doing and what u shouldnt, etc
The easiest way to improve when you're a beginner is to die less and farm more, regardless of who you're playing as. If you're not getting 10-12cs per minute for the first 20 minutes then you can (at least theoretically) improve on that unless you're jungling or supporting, and if you're dying at all during the laning phase then your play certainly could be better. These two things are akin to basic macro in SC2; if you can't do them successfully, you won't be able to do anything more advanced either. Map awareness is the same way. If you're not watching the minimap, you'll miss incoming ganks and easy kill opportunities in your jungle that are exactly what you need to start the game snowballing in your favor.
Another simple thing you can improve on is your knowledge of matchups. When i started playing ranked for the first time, i would make terrible picks (i.e. "garen top? let me nasus guys, I'll outscale him!") due to lack of experience. Many champions get countered hard by at least a couple of opponents, and knowing who you can safely first pick or when you can take advantage of an opponent's foolish choice will net you some easy wins.
Finally, be aware of the items you're building. Put thought into your builds. Don't blindly follow the same item path every game regardless of who you're playing against. Consider what you need to fulfill the job your team has entrusted you with. For example, let's say you're playing brand and your usual build is a double or triple doran's ring into deathcap with sorc shoes. However, you've ended up laning against a veigar. Do you do your normal build? No, because he's going to 100-0 your untanky, AP-stacking ass at level 11 or whenever he finishes DFG and then you can't do your job if you're dead. You should probably go rylai's first with merc treads to be absolutely safe from his burst until much later in the game.
And for the record, nowhere have I seen worse item choices than on new AD carry players. Do not rush two phantom dancers. Do not try some gimmicky quadruple-dblade black cleaver build that relies on you winning by the 25-minute mark. Do not rush madred's bloodrazor because the enemy team has a mundo and an olaf. Just go IE -> PD -> LW and don't worry about all that other shit until you have those core items at the very least.
Top lane: often tele/ignite + flash/ghost depending on matchup. You need escape. Killing your lane vs farming passively with global pressense is an important choice top. You *can* run surge instead of tele/ignite, but often you want ignite for the burst/to stop the sustain of a top laner during a gank/kill or you want the global.
Mid: flash + ignite. Obvious reasons. Some mages like exhaust more though
Jungle: flash/ghost + smite, very few champs can run exhaust +smite
Bot lane: flash for both, often want heal, exhaust, or ignite
If your jungle or mid aren't an exhaust carrying type, you want an exhaust on a bot laner. If your bot laner doesn't have any form of sustain (no sona, ali, soraka) often you want to run heal.
Basically, most team comps limit your ability to effectively run surge/promote without saceificing much more needed summoners. The few team comps that can effectively run it though I think should try at least. A kog with it on is seriously scary. And i still feel promote can have it's uses in pushing comps, or perhaps using it lategame to push bot laneout before baron fight without needing to be bot.
Surge can be really strong, but the reason why you don't see it often is because most champs can only utilize either AP or attack speed, not both. The ones that can, often want ignite for more burst or exhaust because surge and exhaust have almost the same cooldown and in a fight of surge v. exhaust, exhaust will almost always win. If surge is to be viable they need to buff it, probably by drastically lowering the cooldown. If promote had a lower cooldown it'd see a lot more use too. As it is, surge and promote are good niche spells, but the cooldowns on them are just too long for it to be useful.
On March 16 2012 14:27 Ryuu314 wrote: Surge can be really strong, but the reason why you don't see it often is because most champs can only utilize either AP or attack speed, not both. The ones that can, often want ignite for more burst or exhaust because surge and exhaust have almost the same cooldown and in a fight of surge v. exhaust, exhaust will almost always win. If surge is to be viable they need to buff it, probably by drastically lowering the cooldown. If promote had a lower cooldown it'd see a lot more use too. As it is, surge and promote are good niche spells, but the cooldowns on them are just too long for it to be useful.
I stand corrected. Promote has now moved up in the world enough that it deserves a rationalization. They grow up so fast.
Not to demean your credibility (I do this exact thing a lot when talking about LoL), but how much of that was rationalization and how much of that was actual experience? How do you know the reason Promote is unviable is that it's CD is too long? Yeah, it would certainly help to have the CD lower, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been used exclusively for that reason. For Surge, why couldn't it be that Exhaust is a more diverse Summoner Spell in that it can be used both offensively and defensively, or that it and ignite both provide "burst" utility as opposed to the 12 second interval of Surge?
EPT
