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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content.
Thanks. Happy Gaming. |
On March 01 2012 03:50 Two_DoWn wrote:
I actually dont know why tryndamere fell out of favor so fast. All they did was nerf the heal on q, which you never actually used anyway.
He still crushes anyone who stands still vs him, and you aint doing shit to him in terms of burst once he gets wriggles cuz he just crits 2 creeps and is back to full health.
It's the fact that rage nerf that really hurt more than anything, imo.
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The best Trynd I ever played with basically just split push all day. Trynd is an amazing 1v1er and can escape almost anything so he'd just win if they sent one person and run off and let us take towers if they sent two.
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On March 01 2012 03:46 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 03:45 Two_DoWn wrote:On March 01 2012 03:42 Shikyo wrote:
THEORY:
Fiora definitely needs Frozen Mallet in my opinion or she has a ton of problems sticking to targets, also only when they're slowed can she utilize the aspd bonus of E fully.
Fioras ulti has 75% dmg reduction on everything except onhit.
Fioras E synergizes with onhit.
Conclusion:
I think Fiora should be built with Madreds Bloodrazor and Wits end and Frozen Mallet, with the last 2 items being something resistance-centric and tanky(synergy with passive and the frozen mallet), for instance FoN and Randuins Omen.
/Pure theorycraft On March 01 2012 03:10 Mogwai wrote:
wriggle's -> I have no idea. mallet's retarded and I'll never forgive phreak for suggesting it when it scales poorly with her kit (HP undervalued due to ult + lifesteal healing yourself up a bunch and the passive healing you up (not sure how good her passive is, tough to tell from just numbers)). My baseline would be wriggle's -> spend 2.5-3.5K on AD -> GA/Omen/Banshee's, with that middle step being some combination of phage, brutalizer, hexdrinker, tiamat, and bloodthirster. I have no idea though, her kit is pretty nonsensical to me, seems to drive you towards AD, Lifesteal and Resists. Who to believe Well he doesn't like Frozen Mallet on WW when the 2 best WWs in the world always go for it Edit: Oh and yeah I don't know why not play WW instead either, Fiora just seems like a bad champion. But when you're building pure DPS aren't you asking yourself "Why am I not playing Tryndamere?" OH yeah and I definitely think that Q should have been made to proc onhits, I think it's really silly that it doesn't.
I don't like Mallet because I think WW has a ton to gain from Trinity. I get why they do it, I respectfully disagree. An appeal to authority isn't exactly proving your case here, especially when to them, buying anything phage-related was new technology on WW when I've been doing it for the better part of a year now.
I think she has some decent advantages over Tryndamere/Yi on paper. She has a very good sticking kit with double dash + alpha strike + 3 second yi ult, and she has a good portion of her burst coming from non-autoattack sources, which has its benefits. I agree that in general she looks weaker than them, but I see the niches that she fills better than Trynd/Yi with an AD build much more clearly than I see the niches that she fills better than WW/Irelia/Xin with a tanky on-hit build (as all of them have much bigger tanking and teamfighting benefits with only slightly weaker sticking from their kits).
I'm kinda up in the air about Q proccing on-hits. Most dashes don't, only bladesurge does right now. *shrug* I don't think I'd be bothered with it either way.
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On March 01 2012 03:53 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 03:50 Two_DoWn wrote:
I actually dont know why tryndamere fell out of favor so fast. All they did was nerf the heal on q, which you never actually used anyway.
He still crushes anyone who stands still vs him, and you aint doing shit to him in terms of burst once he gets wriggles cuz he just crits 2 creeps and is back to full health. Bad lane matchups. Before the nerf on his heal, even in bad matchups for him, he could do decent due to more healz. But now, all his bad lane matchups are even worse for him.
You never used heal. Even in bad matchups. Pots were always the way to go because crit was enough to turn a bad matchup favorable.
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On March 01 2012 03:33 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 03:25 red_ wrote:
The ult is clearly not meant for teamfights, I'm not sure where people are getting that(it's a really weak aoe if it hits 4 targets(can never hit 5 because it hits first target twice)), while on 1 target it's a pretty substantial nuke.
I'm going to go test stacking tiamats against bots first to see if it works(well?) before I go try it on real dudes. It does reduced damage to single targets, so it only ever does full damage in teamfights.
But it's full damage is a horribly weak aoe. The way I'm reading into the damage reduction is 'if this didn't do reduced damage it would be a free kill every time it's up even on somewhat tanky champs.' They could have put the numbers down to not do reduced damage on single targets but then it would be USELESS in a teamfight, so they chose to make it mediocre in teamfight while still being clearly a 1v1 ability.
Edit: Tiamats do work on the ult(we assumed so but just confirming it). It still suffers from the same problem Tiamats in general does though: the items build up is eh, and the radius of the splash is pretty tiny, so you're not likely to hit more than 2, MAYBE 3 targets if they really clump(maybe a surprise flash ult in baron pit could hit everyone and be really devastating).
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On March 01 2012 03:34 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 03:32 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:On March 01 2012 00:11 Requizen wrote:
Alright, as some of you know, I'm at best a medium skill player who doesn't play ranked, since none of my friends do. We just end up playing a lot of normals.
In many games, I find that the team that has the most tanks/bruisers/tanky dps/what have you, will generally win through sheer attrition and because they're near impossible to kill in teamfights.
For example. Last night I played a game where I played Jarvan for the first time ever (very fun by the way), we had a terribad Volibear, a tanky-AP Naut, and a Maokai, with TF jungling. We won easily because past a certain point, their team of Alistar/Ashe/Lux/Rammus (jungle)/Riven just could do nothing to our health and resists, so we just stomped every teamfight and walked into their base, not giving a fuck about turrets or damage.
We ended up with nearly twice their kills, simply because we stopped dying past a certain point. This struck me as odd, because their team was a pretty solid setup that fit the meta near perfectly, but we just stomped them once laning ended.
Is this prevalent in higher ranks? How does a standard comp deal with something like this, other than resorting to "protect the Vayne/Kog" compositions?
In games where we actually do pick bruiser top/tanky jungle/AP mid/AD&support bot, we can't deal with full bruiser teams because of the exact reasons I won last night, which seems silly to me. Yeah I've noticed myself having difficulty vs bruisers too. A fed bruiser, even just one, can carry a team. I think one big issue is a lack of voidstaffs and last whispers. I recall a game where salce faced a team with 5 enemy junglers. 5 enemies with smite who ganked and counterjungled the crap out of his friend. Salce was the only one on his team not feeding and he went something like 12-0 before finally getting shut down as ziggs. He just kept his distance and relied on his superior damage. If you can't kite as well, well then I dunno. The counter to bruisers is farm. Simple as that. If you cant farm, you will have trouble against bruisers. If you get farm and build with any shred of optimallity you will be fine against them. Its the reason tanks are op at low elo: when you cant farm (hence being low elo) bruisers are very strong becasuse you cant kill them without farm.
And while that's fair and understandable, I also feel that bruiser/tanky champs also have the best way to deny farm because they can just bully out a lane by getting on top of the enemy and forcing them away. At early levels, your carry doesn't have enough damage to chunk anyone down like they do with farm, while most bruisers or tanks are naturally tough enough to shrug off harass and brawl from level 1.
I dunno, it's probably my badness showing. I suppose if I played carries more and focused on farm, I wouldn't have this problem, but even when I do, I get outfarmed and outharassed by the enemy carry T.T
I bad, and I sad :\
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The way I understand Fiora's ulti, it would be ideal if it does alternating hits on exactly 2 champions? That way you don't get the damage reduction and end up spiking 1500 on the primary target and 1000 damage on another. Or maybe that's not how it actually works, I don't really know.
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On March 01 2012 04:09 Juicyfruit wrote:
The way I understand Fiora's ulti, it would be ideal if it does alternating hits on exactly 2 champions? That way you don't get the damage reduction and end up spiking 1500 on the primary target and 1000 damage on another. Or maybe that's not how it actually works, I don't really know.
my understanding is that it's not about consecutive hits, but rather just multiple hits on the same target in a single ults, so that would be 625 and 750, not 1000 and 1500.
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Max dmg on Fiora ult is 4 targets. 5 hits. multiple hits do 25% and first target is 5th hit target aswell
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Pity her ult doesn't crit... that would be fun.
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nothing about any crits is fun. people bitched about moaned about the 4% from masteries, but the sad truth of the matter is that all forms of crit are unfun.
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In my opinion the best use for Fiora ulti in fights, when going with a Riven-esque Wriggles -> Bloodthirster build is that it procs the lifesteal on each hit(and at lvl 16 every hit is going to be at least 500 dmg).
That way you can fight normally -> drop to less than half hp -> ulti the team -> hopefully heal to almost full.
On March 01 2012 03:57 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 03:46 Shikyo wrote:On March 01 2012 03:45 Two_DoWn wrote:On March 01 2012 03:42 Shikyo wrote:
THEORY:
Fiora definitely needs Frozen Mallet in my opinion or she has a ton of problems sticking to targets, also only when they're slowed can she utilize the aspd bonus of E fully.
Fioras ulti has 75% dmg reduction on everything except onhit.
Fioras E synergizes with onhit.
Conclusion:
I think Fiora should be built with Madreds Bloodrazor and Wits end and Frozen Mallet, with the last 2 items being something resistance-centric and tanky(synergy with passive and the frozen mallet), for instance FoN and Randuins Omen.
/Pure theorycraft On March 01 2012 03:10 Mogwai wrote:
wriggle's -> I have no idea. mallet's retarded and I'll never forgive phreak for suggesting it when it scales poorly with her kit (HP undervalued due to ult + lifesteal healing yourself up a bunch and the passive healing you up (not sure how good her passive is, tough to tell from just numbers)). My baseline would be wriggle's -> spend 2.5-3.5K on AD -> GA/Omen/Banshee's, with that middle step being some combination of phage, brutalizer, hexdrinker, tiamat, and bloodthirster. I have no idea though, her kit is pretty nonsensical to me, seems to drive you towards AD, Lifesteal and Resists. Who to believe Well he doesn't like Frozen Mallet on WW when the 2 best WWs in the world always go for it Edit: Oh and yeah I don't know why not play WW instead either, Fiora just seems like a bad champion. But when you're building pure DPS aren't you asking yourself "Why am I not playing Tryndamere?" OH yeah and I definitely think that Q should have been made to proc onhits, I think it's really silly that it doesn't. I don't like Mallet because I think WW has a ton to gain from Trinity. I get why they do it, I respectfully disagree. An appeal to authority isn't exactly proving your case here, especially when to them, buying anything phage-related was new technology on WW when I've been doing it for the better part of a year now. I think she has some decent advantages over Tryndamere/Yi on paper. She has a very good sticking kit with double dash + alpha strike + 3 second yi ult, and she has a good portion of her burst coming from non-autoattack sources, which has its benefits. I agree that in general she looks weaker than them, but I see the niches that she fills better than Trynd/Yi with an AD build much more clearly than I see the niches that she fills better than WW/Irelia/Xin with a tanky on-hit build (as all of them have much bigger tanking and teamfighting benefits with only slightly weaker sticking from their kits). I'm kinda up in the air about Q proccing on-hits. Most dashes don't, only bladesurge does right now. *shrug* I don't think I'd be bothered with it either way.
Oh that was just to say that you have a bias against Frozen Mallet imoimoimo
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On March 01 2012 04:16 Mogwai wrote:
nothing about any crits is fun. people bitched about moaned about the 4% from masteries, but the sad truth of the matter is that all forms of crit are unfun.
Ok, change fun to funny then.
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On March 01 2012 04:18 Shikyo wrote:In my opinion the best use for Fiora ulti in fights, when going with a Riven-esque Wriggles -> Bloodthirster build is that it procs the lifesteal on each hit(and at lvl 16 every hit is going to be at least 500 dmg). That way you can fight normally -> drop to less than half hp -> ulti the team -> hopefully heal to almost full. Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 03:57 Mogwai wrote:On March 01 2012 03:46 Shikyo wrote:On March 01 2012 03:45 Two_DoWn wrote:On March 01 2012 03:42 Shikyo wrote:
THEORY:
Fiora definitely needs Frozen Mallet in my opinion or she has a ton of problems sticking to targets, also only when they're slowed can she utilize the aspd bonus of E fully.
Fioras ulti has 75% dmg reduction on everything except onhit.
Fioras E synergizes with onhit.
Conclusion:
I think Fiora should be built with Madreds Bloodrazor and Wits end and Frozen Mallet, with the last 2 items being something resistance-centric and tanky(synergy with passive and the frozen mallet), for instance FoN and Randuins Omen.
/Pure theorycraft On March 01 2012 03:10 Mogwai wrote:
wriggle's -> I have no idea. mallet's retarded and I'll never forgive phreak for suggesting it when it scales poorly with her kit (HP undervalued due to ult + lifesteal healing yourself up a bunch and the passive healing you up (not sure how good her passive is, tough to tell from just numbers)). My baseline would be wriggle's -> spend 2.5-3.5K on AD -> GA/Omen/Banshee's, with that middle step being some combination of phage, brutalizer, hexdrinker, tiamat, and bloodthirster. I have no idea though, her kit is pretty nonsensical to me, seems to drive you towards AD, Lifesteal and Resists. Who to believe Well he doesn't like Frozen Mallet on WW when the 2 best WWs in the world always go for it Edit: Oh and yeah I don't know why not play WW instead either, Fiora just seems like a bad champion. But when you're building pure DPS aren't you asking yourself "Why am I not playing Tryndamere?" OH yeah and I definitely think that Q should have been made to proc onhits, I think it's really silly that it doesn't. I don't like Mallet because I think WW has a ton to gain from Trinity. I get why they do it, I respectfully disagree. An appeal to authority isn't exactly proving your case here, especially when to them, buying anything phage-related was new technology on WW when I've been doing it for the better part of a year now. I think she has some decent advantages over Tryndamere/Yi on paper. She has a very good sticking kit with double dash + alpha strike + 3 second yi ult, and she has a good portion of her burst coming from non-autoattack sources, which has its benefits. I agree that in general she looks weaker than them, but I see the niches that she fills better than Trynd/Yi with an AD build much more clearly than I see the niches that she fills better than WW/Irelia/Xin with a tanky on-hit build (as all of them have much bigger tanking and teamfighting benefits with only slightly weaker sticking from their kits). I'm kinda up in the air about Q proccing on-hits. Most dashes don't, only bladesurge does right now. *shrug* I don't think I'd be bothered with it either way. Oh that was just to say that you have a bias against Frozen Mallet imoimoimo
fair, I openly admit that I'm biased against mallet for it's shitty stats on paper.
anyway, yea, I agree, the ult in teamfights seems best used to remove yourself from combat to drop focus fire and heal up off your lifesteal.
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I can imagine it would still be hard to use, though, since the optimal time to use it is when you're getting low from being focused, but also when there are no hard CCs to prevent you from doing so. A smart team will save 1 stun for when you get low, stun you before you fire it off, and kill you.
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On March 01 2012 03:50 Two_DoWn wrote:
I actually dont know why tryndamere fell out of favor so fast. All they did was nerf the heal on q, which you never actually used anyway.
He still crushes anyone who stands still vs him, and you aint doing shit to him in terms of burst once he gets wriggles cuz he just crits 2 creeps and is back to full health.
Uhh... it was his q, his lane sustain, that made him unstoppable in lane leading to a horrific end game for everything else. Now he's not as unstoppable in lane, and thus a counter pick can end him. That q nerf put him in line...
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On March 01 2012 04:27 Requizen wrote:
I can imagine it would still be hard to use, though, since the optimal time to use it is when you're getting low from being focused, but also when there are no hard CCs to prevent you from doing so. A smart team will save 1 stun for when you get low, stun you before you fire it off, and kill you.
eh, this shouldn't be an issue, you'd dodge the CC with your ult. the issue would be getting chain stunned and bursted from > 50% HP.
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On March 01 2012 04:28 rackdude wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 03:50 Two_DoWn wrote:
I actually dont know why tryndamere fell out of favor so fast. All they did was nerf the heal on q, which you never actually used anyway.
He still crushes anyone who stands still vs him, and you aint doing shit to him in terms of burst once he gets wriggles cuz he just crits 2 creeps and is back to full health. Uhh... it was his q, his lane sustain, that made him unstoppable in lane leading to a horrific end game for everything else. Now he's not as unstoppable in lane, and thus a counter pick can end him. That q nerf put him in line...
Who the hell uses Q when you have Potions and Wriggles? Only near the end of fights or to survive diving early on, really. It was never really super imba or anything.
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On March 01 2012 04:28 rackdude wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 03:50 Two_DoWn wrote:
I actually dont know why tryndamere fell out of favor so fast. All they did was nerf the heal on q, which you never actually used anyway.
He still crushes anyone who stands still vs him, and you aint doing shit to him in terms of burst once he gets wriggles cuz he just crits 2 creeps and is back to full health. Uhh... it was his q, his lane sustain, that made him unstoppable in lane leading to a horrific end game for everything else. Now he's not as unstoppable in lane, and thus a counter pick can end him. That q nerf put him in line...
You never used q in lane. EVER. It was literally the WORST thing you could ever do, and really only ever advisable in a situation where you needed it to survive a last tick of ignite or something simillarly immediatly life threatening. Other than that, you never pressed q.
He got all of his lane sustain through pots, then crits off of wriggles vamp. He NEVER used q for lane sustain.
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what is the best trynd skill order? I've never really been good at understanding why some trynds are successful and a pain in the ass while others are just punching bags in lane.
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EPT
