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Heed these two simple warnings. It will help make our GD a better place. Consider this fair notice to all users. Warning will be dished out this patch. Thanks. Neo, 31.01.12 | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On February 03 2012 08:31 jcarlsoniv wrote: I don't see your issue with Annie, Neo. She is still a very strong champ. Part of it's because TD suggested it and I poke TD like it's my job. But in reality, her range is a big problem. Yes, an on command stun is great. But she suffers in lane greatly because most common APs can initiate on her np. And her trades are severely worse when her stun is down. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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trollbone
France1905 Posts
gg good games ! Dat froggen anivia !! | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On February 03 2012 08:34 NeoIllusions wrote: Part of it's because TD suggested it and I poke TD like it's my job. But in reality, her range is a big problem. Yes, an on command stun is great. But she suffers in lane greatly because most common APs can initiate on her np. And her trades are severely worse when her stun is down. I won't disagree that she has some tough match ups atm. I do think she is stronger than people think right now, I want to try her out again here and there to find out. Her auto attack range has always pissed me off. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On February 03 2012 08:34 NeoIllusions wrote: Part of it's because TD suggested it and I poke TD like it's my job. But in reality, her range is a big problem. Yes, an on command stun is great. But she suffers in lane greatly because most common APs can initiate on her np. And her trades are severely worse when her stun is down. You mean, the longest ranged auto of any ap mid? People assume that because you CAN last hit with q, you have to. Like if you played her like orianna- simply enough to survive until the enemy gets stupid and you can kill them. Not to mention the fact that tibbers gives her great lane control. Like, I think if someone (better than me) actually went back and played annie as though she was a brand new character, with common current ap mid styles, she would be INCREDIBLY potent. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Tyrran
France777 Posts
On February 03 2012 08:35 trollbone wrote: aa won 2 -1 against clg . eu in the Cdiscount cup gg good games ! Dat froggen anivia !! Froggen was really impressive this game. But the aAa AOE teamcomp was way too strong. I like how they banned alistar wich would have been a serious issue for them. I missed the first game, but game 2 and 3 were really entertaining. | ||
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Chiharu Harukaze
12112 Posts
On February 03 2012 08:34 NeoIllusions wrote: Part of it's because TD suggested it and I poke TD like it's my job. But in reality, her range is a big problem. Yes, an on command stun is great. But she suffers in lane greatly because most common APs can initiate on her np. And her trades are severely worse when her stun is down. Just to follow up on this. Having a point and click CC on demand is neat. But in its own way it makes trading in lane rather difficult. You can't really trade with a lot of popular mid-laners without your stun up and it's hard dealing if they push hard because you have to burn spells which means you can't always have the stun when you want it. A lot of champs also have longer range than you thanks to their spells (Cassi and Leblanc 850 and 700 threat range come to mind), while everything you do (spells and auto) are 625 range. That being said, Annie is one of the only champs I've managed to go just about even against Risu with. Although I did lose my tower eventually and then died a lot... | ||
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
Most underplayed mids: Fizz, Brand, Xerath. | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
Then the other day I saw someone go mobil boots gragas and it didn't remove the buff. I don't see anything relevant in it's patch notes but I think they changed it at some point. | ||
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On February 03 2012 08:52 mr_tolkien wrote: Who are you 6 go-to bans atm ? I really don't find Kassadin to be ban-worthy now >.> Shaco, Rammus, Trynd, Morg, Sivir, Kennen. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On February 03 2012 08:52 mr_tolkien wrote: Who are you 6 go-to bans atm ? I really don't find Kassadin to be ban-worthy now >.> Rammus, Shaco, Morgana, Lee sin (not sure anymore due to patch, but i still think he's ridiculously strong), gangplank, tryndamere. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On February 03 2012 08:52 mr_tolkien wrote: Who are you 6 go-to bans atm ? I really don't find Kassadin to be ban-worthy now >.> Pantheon, Jarvan, Karma... only heroes really worth banning imo. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On February 03 2012 08:58 UniversalSnip wrote: Pantheon, Jarvan, Karma... only heroes really worth banning imo. Jeez who do you go against all the time? smashgiz? | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
Here's the link if you wanna watch http://www.twitch.tv/djWHEAT | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On February 03 2012 09:00 wei2coolman wrote: Jeez who do you go against all the time? smashgiz? well I base all my opinions on the LP forums | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On February 03 2012 09:00 TheKefka wrote: If anyone is interested Dyrus is giving lessons to djWHEAT right about now. Here's the link if you wanna watch http://www.twitch.tv/djWHEAT thanks bro, was looking for that. | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21247 Posts
Zilean is still useless always hated that champion glad to see him go out of favor. He just doesn't -do- anything. Past early game, 2x bombs is not enough damage vs a team that knows how to spread out, and the ult is completely useless in many fights, by the time someone dies and gets revived, the fight has ended and the other team can just stomp the guy as he revives. no CC and no damage, ok utility = not a great champion when there are sooo many other APs out there. I hesitate to say this because literally everyone is gonna jump on mem for this but I think Xerath hype on team liquid is highly overrated. He has no reliable CC since his E is single target and while good range not powerful and potent enough to initiate. It's only real use is stunning people who stray in your direction. His damage is highly overstated, especially in games where laning phase ends with both teams relatively even. His damage is abysmal, in fact if you fall behind, and with no solid utility beyond range, you're not going to accomplihs much. Your ult has low cooldown but not low enough that you can siege up and poke when teams are circling around objectives waiting to initiate, which only really leaves your Q. Great range, ok cooldown, but the damage if you're even/behind really isn't that good. For one, 1300 range is -not- enough to safely reach any squishy targets that you can actually hurt without leaving yourself open to initiation. If you move up to siege, the other team can see that and jump on you since siege still has a small cast time. In a poking war, there really are people who are comparable to Xerath who lose out on a modicum of range but makes up for it with increased utility. Orianna and Karthus come to mind, and also Ryze since it's a point click and the lower range is countered by the fact that Ryze gets quite tanky as the game progresses. The W damage is also overestimated since you're maxing E before W for the extra damage, and 10% mpen is not a lot of extra damage early game and rarely do we see games go to max levels these days. The ult damage is good but the AoE really isn't huge. A problem with Xerath is that as the team fight erupts, you want to abuse your long range but that naturally spreads out your team with your tanky divers going after their carries, which usually stretches out their team as their tanks/peelers move up and carries move back. The result is that you're hitting their front line guys from a safe distance, but are contributing very little to damage on targets that matter. As someone without reliable CC, you're kind of iffy as a peeler for your carries who're going to be relatively close to you. Xerath is a great champion and exerts a lot of lane control vs. many opponents, but the way you see people on TL post you'd think he's number 1 op champion right now and I really think that is very very far from the truth. I don't think Brand is underplayed at all, he always had inherent issues with dropoff after midgame and difficulties maximizing damage in team fights - need good ult bounces and good aoe cc to keep everyone in your pillar. His abusice laning was one of his strongest points, and the E range nerf hurt him a lot. Initiating in-lane trades with W reduces your damage output by a huge chunk, and increased vulnerability with the E range nerf definitely toned down his laning significantly. I don't think he's necessarily bad, but, again, so many APs that do just as much/more than he does without a lot of his drawbacks. In general I think AP mid is a very volatile position just due to the vast number of APs that any small change can upset who are the "best" APs. It's a very small difference and a lot of APs are pretty good, but any small nerf/buff can catapult one from the bottom to the top or vice versa. Another example I can think of this is Malzahar. For a while was super FotM in tournaments but then got a tiny ult damage nerf and small pool damage nerf. combined with the increased prevalence of characters with more and more range and m ore and more lane dominance, Malz fell out of favor pretty hard, and I think it's very understandable. I don't consider him anywhere near a top AP pick right now. Power creep does have something to do with it also tbh ;d Annie suffers from range plain and simple. Opponent plays safe for first ~4 levels, then goes aggro when spells take over as majority source of damage in trades. Annie started falling out of favor when Orianna and Brand were gaining traction, and also when Malz was pretty prevalent since skilled Q placement demolished Annie, precisely because of the huge range differentials at the time. All three of those champs who were considered counters Annie have gotten nerfed since, but the introduction/increased popularity of more huge range champs continued suppressing Annie - Ryze with absurd Q range, Cassiopeia who's just a bitch in general, etc etc. Utility of not needing Blue as much and AoE stun is great and all, but when you're really struggling in lane, team fight utility tends not to come into play as much. Ori is still pretty good as people seem to be slowly realizing again. She has insane synergy with the "team pops 3 shurelias run really fast at them" initiate meta that we see, with the likes of skarner and maokai who just walk in alone ahead of the team into their whole team to do da initiates. give them a ball and boom, instant perfect ult/w placement. Shield spam with blue/cdr boots can deceptively tilt extended skirmishes in your team's favor too. Swain is definitely underplayed though, es very strong, do damages and never die. | ||
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