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[Patch 1.0.0.133: Ziggs] General Discussion - Page 36

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Heed these two simple warnings. It will help make our GD a better place.

Consider this fair notice to all users. Warning will be dished out this patch.

Thanks.
Neo, 31.01.12
57 Corvette
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada5941 Posts
February 03 2012 00:11 GMT
#701
My 6 bans usually go something like Skarner, Shaco, Rammus, Kennen, and then 2 champions I don't trust my team against (Vayne, Sion, Morg, Kass, those kind of champions)
Survival is winning, everything else is bullshit.
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
February 03 2012 00:14 GMT
#702
LOL fakesteve's match history
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
February 03 2012 00:20 GMT
#703
On February 03 2012 07:49 L wrote:
That would be because every time someone picks karma, their entire team goes on tilt.

I say this from experience.

Like this game I instalock karma and all caps ME MID

A dude picks cassiopeia and goes "fuck you karma noob bitch me mid you fuck retard noob I fuck report you bitch" and then he goes 0-7

So yeah it's tough. Then again it was a normal but I've had that like 3 times in ranked too >_> It's sad as well, she has SO MUCH mindgame and saving potential with her AoE heal and E shield and she brings a lot of different kinds of utility while dealing tons of dmg. Also she's great at the 10 hp kills with her shield and the AP bonus, one of the best anti-towerdives and baiters in the entire game.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
February 03 2012 00:20 GMT
#704
only bad thing about zilean is hes probably the most mana dependent AP. Utility makes up for late game damage, laning very very strong.
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
February 03 2012 00:20 GMT
#705
On February 03 2012 09:14 UniversalSnip wrote:
LOL fakesteve's match history


i tend to go overboard with new toys
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21248 Posts
February 03 2012 00:25 GMT
#706
On February 03 2012 09:20 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2012 09:14 UniversalSnip wrote:
LOL fakesteve's match history


i tend to go overboard with new toys


I think he's talking about your AD Sona, which, TBH, has always been pretty legit ;d Had a friend who played an unholy amount of AD sona...
TranslatorBaa!
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
February 03 2012 00:28 GMT
#707
Legit and Legit, AP Sona with Lich Bane is just better at everything.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
February 03 2012 00:32 GMT
#708
I used to solo mid ap sona back when she had ratios
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
Navi
Profile Joined November 2009
5286 Posts
February 03 2012 00:33 GMT
#709
xerath is by no means unbeatable, in lane or otherwise. there is just too much poke in comps that are willing to siege objectives and getting 2 q's off while in w mode with blue buff (and his ult is short enough cd to spam if they have someone in a different lane i.e. you have 5 mid 1 of their is bottom etc. and you can use it to poke because they probably can't engage 4v5 and thus by getting their 4 low you can secure the tower with minimal effort). he is a big lane bully as well, and fulfills the niche that brand does essentially better: big lane bully, bigger burst at 6, nice poke with max range w (q). with a lead xerath is unquestionably a huge dick in lane, and when behind he can cs well while relying on poke in proper team comps to siege objectives quite nicely. he's a strong AP, definitely not #1 tho.

annie suffers from strong counterpicks but she with proper jungler support she is a fierce initiator and has a very large early-midgame presence.
Hey! Listen!
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-03 00:37:50
February 03 2012 00:36 GMT
#710
On February 03 2012 09:09 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
chaotic/unorganized ramble on aps:

Zilean is still useless always hated that champion glad to see him go out of favor.

He just doesn't -do- anything. Past early game, 2x bombs is not enough damage vs a team that knows how to spread out, and the ult is completely useless in many fights, by the time someone dies and gets revived, the fight has ended and the other team can just stomp the guy as he revives. no CC and no damage, ok utility = not a great champion when there are sooo many other APs out there.

I hesitate to say this because literally everyone is gonna jump on mem for this but I think Xerath hype on team liquid is highly overrated. He has no reliable CC since his E is single target and while good range not powerful and potent enough to initiate. It's only real use is stunning people who stray in your direction. His damage is highly overstated, especially in games where laning phase ends with both teams relatively even. His damage is abysmal, in fact if you fall behind, and with no solid utility beyond range, you're not going to accomplihs much. Your ult has low cooldown but not low enough that you can siege up and poke when teams are circling around objectives waiting to initiate, which only really leaves your Q. Great range, ok cooldown, but the damage if you're even/behind really isn't that good. For one, 1300 range is -not- enough to safely reach any squishy targets that you can actually hurt without leaving yourself open to initiation. If you move up to siege, the other team can see that and jump on you since siege still has a small cast time. In a poking war, there really are people who are comparable to Xerath who lose out on a modicum of range but makes up for it with increased utility. Orianna and Karthus come to mind, and also Ryze since it's a point click and the lower range is countered by the fact that Ryze gets quite tanky as the game progresses. The W damage is also overestimated since you're maxing E before W for the extra damage, and 10% mpen is not a lot of extra damage early game and rarely do we see games go to max levels these days. The ult damage is good but the AoE really isn't huge. A problem with Xerath is that as the team fight erupts, you want to abuse your long range but that naturally spreads out your team with your tanky divers going after their carries, which usually stretches out their team as their tanks/peelers move up and carries move back. The result is that you're hitting their front line guys from a safe distance, but are contributing very little to damage on targets that matter. As someone without reliable CC, you're kind of iffy as a peeler for your carries who're going to be relatively close to you.

Xerath is a great champion and exerts a lot of lane control vs. many opponents, but the way you see people on TL post you'd think he's number 1 op champion right now and I really think that is very very far from the truth.

I don't think Brand is underplayed at all, he always had inherent issues with dropoff after midgame and difficulties maximizing damage in team fights - need good ult bounces and good aoe cc to keep everyone in your pillar. His abusice laning was one of his strongest points, and the E range nerf hurt him a lot. Initiating in-lane trades with W reduces your damage output by a huge chunk, and increased vulnerability with the E range nerf definitely toned down his laning significantly. I don't think he's necessarily bad, but, again, so many APs that do just as much/more than he does without a lot of his drawbacks.

In general I think AP mid is a very volatile position just due to the vast number of APs that any small change can upset who are the "best" APs. It's a very small difference and a lot of APs are pretty good, but any small nerf/buff can catapult one from the bottom to the top or vice versa. Another example I can think of this is Malzahar. For a while was super FotM in tournaments but then got a tiny ult damage nerf and small pool damage nerf. combined with the increased prevalence of characters with more and more range and m ore and more lane dominance, Malz fell out of favor pretty hard, and I think it's very understandable. I don't consider him anywhere near a top AP pick right now. Power creep does have something to do with it also tbh ;d

Swain is definitely underplayed though, es very strong, do damages and never die.


A dissenting opinion, heaven help us. I feel the vapours coming on, someone get me some air.

I think your opinion is partially due to playstyle. For example, I max E last. One rank is enough for the full duration of the stun, and I use it primarily as a tool for deterring/dealing with anyone who comes after me. The increased damage and reduced cooldown on E are significant, but most of the time you're not going to be able to position yourself to use it on an enemy carry with only 1 rank in W. Thus I max W after Q so I can constantly reposition myself and hit the high priority targets while evading the front line.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21248 Posts
February 03 2012 00:40 GMT
#711
On February 03 2012 09:33 Navi wrote:
xerath is by no means unbeatable, in lane or otherwise. there is just too much poke in comps that are willing to siege objectives and getting 2 q's off while in w mode with blue buff (and his ult is short enough cd to spam if they have someone in a different lane i.e. you have 5 mid 1 of their is bottom etc. and you can use it to poke because they probably can't engage 4v5 and thus by getting their 4 low you can secure the tower with minimal effort). he is a big lane bully as well, and fulfills the niche that brand does essentially better: big lane bully, bigger burst at 6, nice poke with max range w (q). with a lead xerath is unquestionably a huge dick in lane, and when behind he can cs well while relying on poke in proper team comps to siege objectives quite nicely. he's a strong AP, definitely not #1 tho.

annie suffers from strong counterpicks but she with proper jungler support she is a fierce initiator and has a very large early-midgame presence.


A lot of Xerath's strengths are magnified when your team is in an already favorable situation, in which case many other APs are just as strong TBH. For example, in a 5v4 Xerath can afford to spam ult to poke, but if you had a strong initiating AP like Annie or Morg, you can just go on them 5v4 right away and force a fight which is usually better.

Again I find Xerath to have huge weaknesses when behind, since his kit is centered on damage and staying alive, but when you're behind, you do no damage, and even if you stay alive, you don't contribute much.

I don't deny Annie is good, but again, if you want huge midgame presence with jungler support, why not Veigar? Huge aoe stun on a 20-16 second cd :3
TranslatorBaa!
clickrush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Switzerland3257 Posts
February 03 2012 00:41 GMT
#712
On February 03 2012 09:00 TheKefka wrote:
If anyone is interested Dyrus is giving lessons to djWHEAT right about now.
Here's the link if you wanna watch http://www.twitch.tv/djWHEAT


just wanted to give this more attention
oGsMC: Zealot defense, Stalker attack, Sentry forcefieldu forcefieldu, Marauder die die
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-03 00:43:58
February 03 2012 00:42 GMT
#713
Saying Xeraths damage is bad is just wrong though, his full ult has a 1.8 ratio and at max CDR he has it on a 34 second CD, with his Q on 3.

But the biggest thing is at level 18 he gets free 30% magic pen, which is flat out insane lategame. He's hands down one of the best scaling AP's in the game if not the best.

I think you've just played with bad underfarmed Xeraths, the numbers are all there for him.
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21248 Posts
February 03 2012 00:42 GMT
#714
On February 03 2012 09:36 Seuss wrote:

I think your opinion is partially due to playstyle. For example, I max E last. One rank is enough for the full duration of the stun, and I use it primarily as a tool for deterring/dealing with anyone who comes after me. The increased damage and reduced cooldown on E are significant, but most of the time you're not going to be able to position yourself to use it on an enemy carry with only 1 rank in W. Thus I max W after Q so I can constantly reposition myself and hit the high priority targets while evading the front line.


don't you feel so powerless though? The difference between 1W and 5W is 25% mpen, which is a very negligible amount of damage. When Xerath came out I did the W max too but both from personal feel and seeing various streamers do it, I changed to E max which just offers more damage. At the end of the day, you're an AP carry, and you need to da stronk damagez.
TranslatorBaa!
Skithiryx
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia648 Posts
February 03 2012 00:47 GMT
#715
On February 03 2012 08:43 Two_DoWn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2012 08:34 NeoIllusions wrote:
On February 03 2012 08:31 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I don't see your issue with Annie, Neo. She is still a very strong champ.


Part of it's because TD suggested it and I poke TD like it's my job.

But in reality, her range is a big problem. Yes, an on command stun is great. But she suffers in lane greatly because most common APs can initiate on her np. And her trades are severely worse when her stun is down.

You mean, the longest ranged auto of any ap mid?

People assume that because you CAN last hit with q, you have to. Like if you played her like orianna- simply enough to survive until the enemy gets stupid and you can kill them. Not to mention the fact that tibbers gives her great lane control.

Like, I think if someone (better than me) actually went back and played annie as though she was a brand new character, with common current ap mid styles, she would be INCREDIBLY potent.


Yes but the problem is you need to last hit with Q so that you can build up your stun chain and get some harass on the enemy, I still play brand quite a bit and whenever I see someone pick Annie I just rub my hands together outside of a level 6 flash+tibbers combo i've never died to an Annie ever and I'm always either able to FB them or force them to back quite a few times. I can't say it gets much better if you play Xer/Cass/Kass/Ahri against her.
Eishi_Ki
Profile Joined April 2009
Korea (South)1667 Posts
February 03 2012 00:48 GMT
#716
On February 03 2012 09:20 zulu_nation8 wrote:
only bad thing about zilean is hes probably the most mana dependent AP. Utility makes up for late game damage, laning very very strong.


I still think Anivia needs blue the most (more than Ziggs also)
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
February 03 2012 00:54 GMT
#717
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


*giggles*
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
February 03 2012 00:58 GMT
#718
Btw Xerath vs Ahri is very bad matchup, you have 3 skillshot nukes, she has 3 dashes. Its a direct counter if she just waits until you start ulting.

plus whacking you with orb if you locus too close. Heart doesn't break you out of locus though, trufact.
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
bosiddon
Profile Joined September 2010
308 Posts
February 03 2012 00:58 GMT
#719
did loco's interview (http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=122786&db=issue) ever get translated
2035
starfries
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada3508 Posts
February 03 2012 00:58 GMT
#720
For underplayed APs, I agree with a lot of people that Zilean and Xerath top of the list, and probably Orianna in third, but that's not very interesting. Some other APs I think deserve more play:

Katarina: I've seen a lot of team comps that would be destroyed by a Katarina, and her weakness to interrupts is not really as huge as a lot of people think. If there's a skirmish in the jungle and you were relying on your Janna to deal with her in teamfights, she's going to wreck you.

Sion: still dumb

Viktor: the buffs helped him quite a bit, and that ultimate is ridiculous

DJ – do you like ramen, Savior? Savior – not really. Bisu – I eat it often. Flash – I’m a maniac! | Foxer Fighting!
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