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0123456789
United States3216 Posts
On February 02 2012 10:45 Two_DoWn wrote: God, SYDTKO is like the Shikyo of the CLG vent right now. Even their names are similar... That's not nice. Especially to a fellow Tl member. Thought this was a better community. | ||
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Treadmill
Canada2833 Posts
On February 02 2012 10:58 starfries wrote: Snoopeh has a great record jungling Vayne, and it doesn't mess up the team comp very much. It won't be as scary as a roaming mid Vayne though. And in both cases, you're still free to run AD + support bot (when Snoopeh jungles Vayne they usually still have a standard bot lane). For the mid Vayne strategy, I'd be a bit concerned about finding a jungle that can hold mid against an AP carry that outlevels him. re: AD/level runes above If you're going to pick late-game runes like that, there are generally better choices (e.g crit chance). The flat AD reds are mostly to help you last hit early on when your base damage is low, so AD/level doesn't work as well. Last hitting is the main reason to pick them over armor pen anyways, which scale better. The main problem with mid vayne is your condemn is waaay less effective. Also she has terrible wave clearing so the million different AP's with wave clears are really hard to deal with (gragas, sion, malz, anivia...). Roaming isn't so hot when you lose your tower the first time you do it. | ||
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Hidden_MotiveS
Canada2562 Posts
On February 02 2012 11:02 jcarlsoniv wrote: If you have a carry jungler and Galio top, I would say yes, he should give some (not necessarily a ton) cs to the jungler. I ideally wouldn't want to play Galio with a support jungler, because when it comes down to it, neither of them would be able to carry the game. Just because you don't notice it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. If you watch SV, very often he will sneak into lane to take a few cs here and there, and will usually hold a lane and farm as long as he can while his laner isn't there. As a carry jungler, he needs to get the farm from lanes that just isn't possible in the jungle. I thought it was the jungler's job to not let cs go to waste when a laner dies / has to go back. Anyways that's not what I'm talking about, I'm more talking about how when a galio and a carry jungler are walking to a big wave of minions mid game, the galio never backs off and says "here you go carry jungler, you can do more with this farm than I can." Just watched saint, he had an opportunity to get some cs mid when xerath killed his cass, but he didn't and instead did wolves. Then shaco stole his blue XD. He is nunu though so what you said makes sense. Just funny how he just walks into a trap and sees a bunch of little lizards chasing shaco. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
For example, back when TSM and CLG would stream their scrims Hotshot had comparable CS to TRM. Jiji had comparable CS to Reginald. Then you'd have saint who would have 40-60 CS more than OddOne. One would think that if they were ceding their CS to saint then they would be significantly behind their lane opponents but they weren't. They were on par or sometimes even out-CSing them. Maybe later in the game past like the thirty minute point they'll cede CS to saint but throughout most of the game they don't. Saint just clears more camps while OddOne ganks lanes. Both take lane CS if they're in the right place at the right time but I don't think it's an issue of "not enough farm to go around." The most I see in a carry jungle situation is for a team to be less reliant on ganks and thus play safer/ensure they're always warding because their jungler can't babysit them. Although to be fair those were just scrims and CLG was winning pretty much all of them so it could just be an example of TSM playing poorly and not a good example of support/carry jungler. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 02 2012 11:32 overt wrote: I don't know if this ceding farm to jungler thing is 100% accurate. As in, the examples used for carry jungler seem to only be saintvicious and the support jungler example seems to be TheOddOne. In the case of both of them I only notice a play style difference between the actual junglers not the laners ceding farm to saint or the laners not letting OddOne have their farm (as he farms lanes as well when the opportunity arises). I mean, the only real difference for me is that Regi plays super aggressive which is good for a support jungler and jiji is more passive which is good if he isn't relying on his jungler to gank for him. For example, back when TSM and CLG would stream their scrims Hotshot had comparable CS to TRM. Jiji had comparable CS to Reginald. Then you'd have saint who would have 40-60 CS more than OddOne. One would think that if they were ceding their CS to saint then they would be significantly behind their lane opponents but they weren't. They were on par or sometimes even out-CSing them. Maybe later in the game past like the thirty minute point they'll cede CS to saint but throughout most of the game they don't. Saint just clears more camps while OddOne ganks lanes. Both take lane CS if they're in the right place at the right time but I don't think it's an issue of "not enough farm to go around." The most I see in a carry jungle situation is for a team to be less reliant on ganks and thus play safer/ensure they're always warding because their jungler can't babysit them. Although to be fair those were just scrims and CLG was winning pretty much all of them so it could just be an example of TSM playing poorly and not a good example of support/carry jungler. What were the picks in that game? It's utterly fruitless to discuss "carry jungle" and "support jungle" in a vacuum as if they're exclusively dependent on who's playing them. Which you're playing is dependent on team composition, which was part of my point to begin with. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On February 02 2012 11:37 TheYango wrote: What were the picks in that game? It's utterly fruitless to discuss "carry jungle" and "support jungle" in a vacuum as if they're exclusively dependent on who's playing them, which was part of my point to begin with. This was consistently every scrim they were doing for like a week until they stopped streaming them. It's possible that TSM was just dicking around and that CLG got such a huge advantage in every game that saint didn't need to have farm given to him. But even in tournament games I don't notice HSGG or jiji having less farm than their counter parts. I think it's definitely something you can do and I've seen CLG and TSM do it when they run Zilean mid. Specific example would've been GP right after he got his new passive and TSM ran Zilean mid. After lane phase Regi let OddOne farm as GP so that he could build damage items because Zilean's damage falls off as the game goes on. CLG does the same thing. I just don't notice CLG consistently giving saint CS in tournaments or scrims but maybe I'm just not paying enough attention. To clarify, I notice saint play a carry jungler style where he outfarms his opposing jungler. I don't notice mid or top on CLG losing out on CS because they're giving it to saint unless they run something like Zilean who doesn't really need farm past a certain point. edit: And in response to your most recent reply, yeah, that could make sense and explain why there isn't a CS discrepancy. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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tobi9999
United States1966 Posts
"They killed you so fast! YOU KNOW HOW LONG IT TOOK ME TO KILL GANGPLANK? I HAD IE AND LAST WHISPER TOO! IF YOU WERE JUST TANKY LIKE GANGPLANK WE COULD'VE WON." Then I go and look at Mandatorycloud's profile, and his final build was wriggles, triforce, last whisper, atmas, merc treads doran blade. zzzzzzzzzzz And also, "NO! soraka lost the lane for me. When Doublelift pushed to enemy tower against Graves, then let soraka die everytime they decided to start attacking instead of attacking back." | ||
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seRapH
United States9776 Posts
They keep forcing these changes zz | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On February 02 2012 10:45 Two_DoWn wrote: God, SYDTKO is like the Shikyo of the CLG vent right now. Even their names are similar... i actually really like having shikyo around, if I had to put up with sydtko posting here I think I'd take TL off my favorites EDIT: id still check it 20 times a day though | ||
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0123456789
United States3216 Posts
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
On February 02 2012 11:54 tobi9999 wrote: DoubleLift is a complete idiot.... "They killed you so fast! YOU KNOW HOW LONG IT TOOK ME TO KILL GANGPLANK? I HAD IE AND LAST WHISPER TOO! IF YOU WERE JUST TANKY LIKE GANGPLANK WE COULD'VE WON." Then I go and look at Mandatorycloud's profile, and his final build was wriggles, triforce, last whisper, atmas, merc treads doran blade. zzzzzzzzzzz And also, "NO! soraka lost the lane for me. When Doublelift pushed to enemy tower against Graves, then let soraka die everytime they decided to start attacking instead of attacking back." I see he's stopped claiming every death is 100% your fault and is back to blaming teammates Saintvicious (Nunu) playing with Doublelift (Ashe): "I"m Nunu, but my AD carries always suck. You know what? It's still true!" | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On February 02 2012 12:05 seRapH wrote: Guinsoo's twitter says karma's KIT is going to be changed? Apparantly riot wants her to duo lane -_- They keep forcing these changes zz She's support bro, gotta go with the AD. Think of the bottom lane as a kitchen, and supports as women(ok so Alistar and Nunu aren't female, but close enough)... women can't be allowed out of the kitchen until they are done cooking except for some exceptions, like getting you a beer or snack while you wait for dinner(warding). There's a few champs that break this analogy, but it ALMOST fits. Conspiracy theory: Riot far more misogynist than ever thought before! | ||
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0123456789
United States3216 Posts
Both men and women | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
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Craton
United States17262 Posts
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Hidden_MotiveS
Canada2562 Posts
On February 02 2012 12:18 starfries wrote: I see he's stopped claiming every death is 100% your fault and is back to blaming teammates Saintvicious (Nunu) playing with Doublelift (Ashe): "I"m Nunu, but my AD carries always suck. You know what? It's still true!" Who are the good mannered streamers? I know this question has been asked. | ||
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dooraven
Australia2820 Posts
In fact, CLG EU is like the total opposite of CLG NA, they hardly ever rage at each other, rather they look at replays etc and comment on where to improve. | ||
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
On February 02 2012 12:35 Hidden_MotiveS wrote: Who are the good mannered streamers? I know this question has been asked. The Riot featured streamers are all manner and personally I think Chaox, chu8 and Nhat are nice as well. I dunno, I don't really have a problem with streamers like Saint who aren't really good mannered. It's just that Doublelift always seems to be arguing or calling people bad for the sake of his ego while if Saint says you suck he's just being brutally honest. | ||
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Hyren
United States817 Posts
On February 02 2012 12:35 Hidden_MotiveS wrote: Who are the good mannered streamers? I know this question has been asked. Dan Dinh has always been mannered afaik, and of course G-Bob is famous for his non-raging. Salce is pretty chill. Xpecial and Nhat come to mind. I haven't seen Scarra's stream yet, but he's always struck me as a chill guy. I'm not sure if Dyrus used to be good mannered and popularity got to his head or if the "good guy Dyrus" was strictly based on how he handled the WCG situation, but he's just as ragey as anyone else now :/ | ||
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