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Hidden_MotiveS
Canada2562 Posts
On February 10 2012 13:36 Treadmill wrote: You're right! It's got the stats of two doran's blades for the cost of three! What a bargain! cost of 2.7, and the doran's blades have to be sold much. Net loss is actually zero if you finish up a frozen mallet late game. If I'm behind I'd think ruby crystal would help more than a dblade. Not sure though. | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On February 10 2012 12:06 Sickshakes wrote: I impulse bought volibear recently and i'm having trouble working out how i should actually be using him. I've only played a few games with him, all jungling on normals but it seems he suffers from very slow jungle clear times. I also don't know how to build him. Typically I built wriggles > mercs > warmogs > wit's end > frozen mallet. I don't feel like this is an optimal build however and perhaps other items are better suited to him, i'm thinking of ionic spark instead of wits and also potentially other on-hit items such as MBR (or even nashor's tooth / malady though they are probably a bit too trollish). Perhaps my biggest problem though is i just feel useless in teamfights. Should i be diving their AD carry or protecting mine? His kit doesn't seem particularly good at doing either quite honestly. His Q is useful for a gap closer, but i can only get 1 W off during a teamfight which is his main damage source, and by the time it's off cooldown again, the fight is almost already decided. Finally, if were to play him as a solo top, which i am probably more interested in, what are his best matchups? I would speculate he would be good against melee champs relying on sustained damage because it gives your passive a chance to count, and be able to get multiple W's off in a fight, but this is all speculation because i have never tried him top and i really have no clue. So since i've asked just about every possible question about how to play Volibear, i don't think it's actually possible to respond to this post in less than 1000 words. So instead any pointers about how to play Volibear would be appreciated because while he seems like a cool champion i can't work him out. I play him solo top the majority. Two_Down will give you a better perspective on jungling him. Either way tho, his team-fight theory is pretty similar. 1st off, I think you're wrong in saying that w (active) is his major source of damage, because I actually think it's his ult, and by a pretty significant margin. If you are referring to his passive in combination with his ult that would make more sense, but i dont think so based on context. So a couple things, 1st of all, you're going to want wits before warmogs. Volibear really needs that offensive item earlier rather than later. 2nd of all, HP is a bit overrated on him (imo). I actually end up much more tanky and have much more damage with more rounded bruiser style builds, so warmogs AND fmallet is seriously overkill, often i don't even get either, esp if I get aegis. My build is typically really flexible, and ends up being a lot of random crap that eventually coalesces into something sensible. The only constants seem to be A) wriggles, and B) merc treads (unless you're seriously getting dicked over by physical damage, but that hasn't happened to me yet). Otherwise, its kinda all over the place. Wits is really great, but I've also had a lot of success with triforce builds as well. Aegis is good on him, Frozen heart is great, GA is good,FoN, etc. Basically, pick your 1 offensive item between spark, wits and triforce and then build a mass of resists and some HP items in there. Spark is really niche, and I only get if i'm intending to do serious afk farming/split pushing (which has been a conscious decision for exactly 1 game, the rest of the times were to see how much i liked the item, and it's decidedly meh). I can't really think of any other good time to get it over wits or force. RE: matchups. i will state up front that i have 0 experience with the bear in particularly high levels of play. That said, i've had lots of success vs tryndamere, riven (not 100% sure how this works out, kus the rivens i've played against all opened boots or dblade first), irelia, jax, udyr, gangplank, and wukong. irelia and udyr ended up being kinda challenging to kill after awhile, but were never really threatening (to me anyways) 100% stalemates: cho'gath, galio (pushing power and natural tankiness OP). Both of these have an early window at about level 4-5 where you can kill them, but then even if you do, afterwards it becomes a total farmfest without heavy jungler interference. not really sure (either kus i havn't played the MU or other reasons): panth, J4, swain, vlad, ryze, warwick, xin, shen, and yorick i havn't played against. Teemo i only played vs once, and I can't tell whether that game i won the lane due to jungle interference or champ superiority. Certainly once you get ahead in that MU (for whatever reason) it's pretty easy to stay ahead i've been thrashed by a kennen. That's the only MU i've ever just straight up lost so far. I suspect panth, swain, ryze and mybe vlad are bad MU's simply because the default for melee is to be bad vs them. Not sure tho. edit: totally forgot to touch on what you're supposed to be doing in a fight. Basically, you just kinda wade in there, and mash e a lot and r+auto a whole bunch and then w on CD. You then have a choice after the fight has started: either use q to charge after their AD or AP carry, or peel for your own, and that is super situational, and either can actually be really good, cause bear is actually really really good at peeling (altho u have to get used to how his fling works at first, i spent a lot of time at first flinging their bruisers into my AD carry, to much despair and facepalming from uta huehuehue) There are situations where u use q for initiating, and ofc it has great use in chasing, but those are pretty self-explanatory/obvious. u see some1 grossly out of position, then ofc go grab him, likewise chasing is pretty obvious. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On February 10 2012 12:06 Sickshakes wrote: I impulse bought volibear recently and i'm having trouble working out how i should actually be using him. I've only played a few games with him, all jungling on normals but it seems he suffers from very slow jungle clear times. I also don't know how to build him. Typically I built wriggles > mercs > warmogs > wit's end > frozen mallet. I don't feel like this is an optimal build however and perhaps other items are better suited to him, i'm thinking of ionic spark instead of wits and also potentially other on-hit items such as MBR (or even nashor's tooth / malady though they are probably a bit too trollish). Perhaps my biggest problem though is i just feel useless in teamfights. Should i be diving their AD carry or protecting mine? His kit doesn't seem particularly good at doing either quite honestly. His Q is useful for a gap closer, but i can only get 1 W off during a teamfight which is his main damage source, and by the time it's off cooldown again, the fight is almost already decided. Finally, if were to play him as a solo top, which i am probably more interested in, what are his best matchups? I would speculate he would be good against melee champs relying on sustained damage because it gives your passive a chance to count, and be able to get multiple W's off in a fight, but this is all speculation because i have never tried him top and i really have no clue. So since i've asked just about every possible question about how to play Volibear, i don't think it's actually possible to respond to this post in less than 1000 words. So instead any pointers about how to play Volibear would be appreciated because while he seems like a cool champion i can't work him out. And, as if summoned, I am here to answer all questions. eqw e>w>q, wriggles, wits, tank (ie whatever you need to live) His clear is not great without blue, as you wont be able to spam e as much. However, you do put out a lot of damage, so his clear, while not shyvana level, is better than GP/WW/Trundle. Basically, when playing him abuse the fact that any character who is even SLIGHTLY exposed in lane is a free kill. Q, then either e to catch them or flip them then e them to slow them to a crawl. You also do enough raw damage so that unlike rammus or maokai, you are actually capable of providing a good deal of damage with your gank. In teamfights you should be going in toward one of their carries and flipping them from safety, all the while spamming your e to hinder enemy movement. Just beat on people with your R and laugh as you dont die cuz your passive is broken. | ||
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AsianEcksDragon
United States1036 Posts
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Craton
United States17281 Posts
On February 10 2012 13:51 Ryuu314 wrote: ziggs is secret top tier imo. same with sejuani. ziggs has a lot more utility than people give him credit for imo. Nobody I know considers Ziggs anything short of needing nerfs, lol. | ||
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anmolsinghmzn2009
India1783 Posts
That combined with his absurdly ranged q and huge AOE ult makes it really frustrating in lane as well as in teamfights. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
Couple that with how insanely easy he is to use and it means instead of a learning curve, anybody who buys him can immediately smash face. | ||
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Craton
United States17281 Posts
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Niton
United States2395 Posts
On February 10 2012 15:51 Craton wrote: They'll never remove the slow on mines. At most they'll lower the damage a touch and call it a day. They're basically petrified of changing the functionality on abilities so they'll just peter around touching the base damages, ratios, or mana costs, and MAYBE take like 5% off the minefield slow, but that's unlikely. I think it's pretty rare for them to change the ranges on abilities, too; they've only done it a handful of times that I can think of. Range increases/decreases are pretty common. They're not a preferred method, but they definitely do happen. Nocturne, Brand, Taric and Soraka come to mind as recent examples. On a side note, Amumu is nuts and he's incredibly underplayed. Just because he's dubiously good at 2200 doesn't mean that translates to your terrible low-level games! | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On February 10 2012 15:51 Craton wrote: They'll never remove the slow on mines. At most they'll lower the damage a touch and call it a day. They're basically petrified of changing the functionality on abilities so they'll just peter around touching the base damages, ratios, or mana costs, and MAYBE take like 5% off the minefield slow, but that's unlikely. I think it's pretty rare for them to change the ranges on abilities, too; they've only done it a handful of times that I can think of. I know there are red posts on the subject of why they don't change functionality, but I don't have them offhand. They raped Corki's Q into the ground. If his minefield is truly broken I wouldn't be surprised if they removed the slow. But yeah, I'd agree that he'll likely just get damage nerfs. I didn't read that red post but I would guess that they don't change the functionality too often on abilities because it can essentially remove the feel that the champ once had. I still forget sometimes that Corki's Q doesn't reveal stealth or blind anymore. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On February 10 2012 15:57 overt wrote: They raped Corki's Q into the ground. If his minefield is truly broken I wouldn't be surprised if they removed the slow. But yeah, I'd agree that he'll likely just get damage nerfs. I didn't read that red post but I would guess that they don't change the functionality too often on abilities because it can essentially remove the feel that the champ once had. I still forget sometimes that Corki's Q doesn't reveal stealth or blind anymore. well there's a big difference between zigg's mines and corki q. corki's Q made him single-handedly the strongest 1v1 champ in the game against any and every autoattacker. that blind was ridiculous. not to mention the stealth reveal that worked on everything including wards way back when. It also did more damage in the past I think. | ||
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anmolsinghmzn2009
India1783 Posts
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On February 10 2012 16:00 Ryuu314 wrote: well there's a big difference between zigg's mines and corki q. corki's Q made him single-handedly the strongest 1v1 champ in the game against any and every autoattacker. that blind was ridiculous. not to mention the stealth reveal that worked on everything including wards way back when. It also did more damage in the past I think. Yeah, they had initially nerfed his Q to not reveal stealth. Then the big Corki nerf came where they nerfed the damage on all of his abilities and removed the blind from his Q. That nerf made Corki go from #1 AD in the game to underplayed and imo they should have either removed the blind from his Q and kept his damage the same or nerfed his damage and let him keep his blind. Instead they over nerfed him imo, especially compared to the minor nerf that Ashe got at the time. 30% blind was really strong but I don't think it made him too over top and it was still his burst that made him so deadly in 1v1s. Ziggs mines are so strong not because they do a lot of damage but also because of the slow. Which is why I wouldn't be shocked if they took out the slow but I would agree that he'll probably just see a damage nerf. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On February 10 2012 16:03 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote: Btw warwick changes come next patch. Slight nerf to sustain and slight adjustments targeted towards increased jungling speed. it's probably just something along the lines of heal from Q nerfed from 80% to 75% and probably like a 5~10% buff on his W attack speed for the early levels. i doubt it'll be much at all. | ||
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anmolsinghmzn2009
India1783 Posts
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anmolsinghmzn2009
India1783 Posts
On February 10 2012 16:06 Ryuu314 wrote: it's probably just something along the lines of heal from Q nerfed from 80% to 75% and probably like a 5~10% buff on his W attack speed for the early levels. i doubt it'll be much at all. Yeah probably. though I'm pretty sure they're nerfing his passive and not his q. People were also asking for a change/buff to his e but Morello didn't comment about that. | ||
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Niton
United States2395 Posts
On February 10 2012 16:08 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote: I don't feel the slow as big of a deal as the damage. I've seen the mines regularly take more than half the health of champions. It's not really your imagination, either - if someone walks over 6 (of 11) mines, they're going to take 490 + 1.05 AP damage. The full possible damage for mines really is nuts, and I think they could probably cut the total number of mines without significantly impacting his normal play. | ||
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Jacobs Ladder
United States1705 Posts
On February 10 2012 16:06 Ryuu314 wrote: it's probably just something along the lines of heal from Q nerfed from 80% to 75% and probably like a 5~10% buff on his W attack speed for the early levels. i doubt it'll be much at all. Just fix his mana problems. I love WW, but you're forced into silly items because he has such a ridiculously small mana pool. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
The difference with WW is that while his late game and post 6 map control are good, the trade off prior is much too severe. You basically have no map presence. Like if I was in charge of WW adjustments I would do a little quality of life thing with his w where he gets a 10% attack speed bonus just as a passive (since the cd is VERY long for a spell like that, even if it is a very strong one) and then try to find some way to rework his e so that he has more map presence. My idea was for an overall change to where you can only see that he has vision of you if you have vision of HIM (and thus his e will be on all the time) and then by activating the ability you gain a speed buff. And ya- I wish his mana costs didnt suck as well. The problem is that his q is broken in lane if it is cheap. | ||
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