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On February 10 2012 04:28 bmn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 04:15 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:On February 10 2012 04:07 Mogwai wrote:On February 10 2012 03:45 bmn wrote:On February 10 2012 03:40 Mogwai wrote:
Yorrick is potentially the most devastating, but his late game is entirely dependent on how well your ranged AD is doing.
Really their late game strength is dependant on ult usage. Morde is about whether you can get a fast and meaningful ghost from the other team, Yorrick is just about synergy with your ranged AD, and Rumble's is about positioning and whether the opposing team can deal with the zoning the line provides. Just to get an idea of where they stand with the rest of the bunch, how would you say they compare to people generally recognized to fall off hard in late-game, e.g. Garen? Do they have decent late-game performance, or would you say they're really early-game (laning) one-trick ponies? I've picked up and really enjoy Morde/Yorick/Rumble (each with their slightly different play styles), but I want to make sure I don't end up playing only with heroes that are useless late-game. (As opposed to e.g. Kennen/Cass, which definitely do a lot more damage late-game) Uhhh, they're all pretty strong late game under the right circumstances if you ask me. They do all hit the stage where super farmed ranged carry can just gib them and then your team loses the game, but that's just the nature of all Melee Champs and I wouldn't consider these guys uniquely weak in that respect. I'd say Rumble tapers off late game the hardest of the 3, but none of them experience Garen-level tapering (then again, pretty much no one does). In terms of overall sustained damage in a long fight, equally farmed AD carries seem to deal more damage overall than any other champions regardless. You can see this when teams run tryndamere or teemo top with a standard AD bot. I don't recommend running too many characters reliant on it though as frozen heart, randuins, and malphite probably counter this too hard. Less true when teemo builds frozen mallet before a big damage item, but still true. Random incidental question: Some guy I argue with all the time is insistent that building pure AD is stronger on Teemo and Warwick than building the standard AS with on-hit items. I don't agree, but I didn't theorycraft it. I hope he's wrong, since if AS/on-hit isn't even superior for Teemo/WW, builds get a lot less interesting. Does anyone have experience trying this?
Oh hit items are more about moving your ad damage into magic damage. Also I'm not sure about how LoL rounds but having a large number of smaller numbers might give you more damage based on the rounding.
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On February 10 2012 04:28 bmn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 04:15 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:On February 10 2012 04:07 Mogwai wrote:On February 10 2012 03:45 bmn wrote:On February 10 2012 03:40 Mogwai wrote:
Yorrick is potentially the most devastating, but his late game is entirely dependent on how well your ranged AD is doing.
Really their late game strength is dependant on ult usage. Morde is about whether you can get a fast and meaningful ghost from the other team, Yorrick is just about synergy with your ranged AD, and Rumble's is about positioning and whether the opposing team can deal with the zoning the line provides. Just to get an idea of where they stand with the rest of the bunch, how would you say they compare to people generally recognized to fall off hard in late-game, e.g. Garen? Do they have decent late-game performance, or would you say they're really early-game (laning) one-trick ponies? I've picked up and really enjoy Morde/Yorick/Rumble (each with their slightly different play styles), but I want to make sure I don't end up playing only with heroes that are useless late-game. (As opposed to e.g. Kennen/Cass, which definitely do a lot more damage late-game) Uhhh, they're all pretty strong late game under the right circumstances if you ask me. They do all hit the stage where super farmed ranged carry can just gib them and then your team loses the game, but that's just the nature of all Melee Champs and I wouldn't consider these guys uniquely weak in that respect. I'd say Rumble tapers off late game the hardest of the 3, but none of them experience Garen-level tapering (then again, pretty much no one does). In terms of overall sustained damage in a long fight, equally farmed AD carries seem to deal more damage overall than any other champions regardless. You can see this when teams run tryndamere or teemo top with a standard AD bot. I don't recommend running too many characters reliant on it though as frozen heart, randuins, and malphite probably counter this too hard. Less true when teemo builds frozen mallet before a big damage item, but still true. Random incidental question: Some guy I argue with all the time is insistent that building pure AD is stronger on Teemo and Warwick than building the standard AS with on-hit items. I don't agree, but I didn't theorycraft it. I hope he's wrong, since if AS/on-hit isn't even superior for Teemo/WW, builds get a lot less interesting. Does anyone have experience trying this?
When I do damage calculations on leaguecraft I find that on hit effect items generally provide less dps. You can do your own calculations or I can link u mine.
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On February 10 2012 04:28 bmn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 04:15 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:On February 10 2012 04:07 Mogwai wrote:On February 10 2012 03:45 bmn wrote:On February 10 2012 03:40 Mogwai wrote:
Yorrick is potentially the most devastating, but his late game is entirely dependent on how well your ranged AD is doing.
Really their late game strength is dependant on ult usage. Morde is about whether you can get a fast and meaningful ghost from the other team, Yorrick is just about synergy with your ranged AD, and Rumble's is about positioning and whether the opposing team can deal with the zoning the line provides. Just to get an idea of where they stand with the rest of the bunch, how would you say they compare to people generally recognized to fall off hard in late-game, e.g. Garen? Do they have decent late-game performance, or would you say they're really early-game (laning) one-trick ponies? I've picked up and really enjoy Morde/Yorick/Rumble (each with their slightly different play styles), but I want to make sure I don't end up playing only with heroes that are useless late-game. (As opposed to e.g. Kennen/Cass, which definitely do a lot more damage late-game) Uhhh, they're all pretty strong late game under the right circumstances if you ask me. They do all hit the stage where super farmed ranged carry can just gib them and then your team loses the game, but that's just the nature of all Melee Champs and I wouldn't consider these guys uniquely weak in that respect. I'd say Rumble tapers off late game the hardest of the 3, but none of them experience Garen-level tapering (then again, pretty much no one does). In terms of overall sustained damage in a long fight, equally farmed AD carries seem to deal more damage overall than any other champions regardless. You can see this when teams run tryndamere or teemo top with a standard AD bot. I don't recommend running too many characters reliant on it though as frozen heart, randuins, and malphite probably counter this too hard. Less true when teemo builds frozen mallet before a big damage item, but still true. Random incidental question: Some guy I argue with all the time is insistent that building pure AD is stronger on Teemo and Warwick than building the standard AS with on-hit items. I don't agree, but I didn't theorycraft it. I hope he's wrong, since if AS/on-hit isn't even superior for Teemo/WW, builds get a lot less interesting. Does anyone have experience trying this?
Building standard AD items will result in more damage on them, sure.
That however, does not make it better to do so on them. If you're a WW with PD, IE, LW, you're squishy as fuck compared to a ww with Wriggle's, Wit's and Triforce. The thing about on-hit items is that until you get into big multiplicative scaling of standard AD/AS/Crit items, they have better cost efficiency AND they tend to give defensive stats that lend better for 2-3 offensive items + 2-3 defensive item builds. They also generally cost less. On teemo it's an interesting discussion, but I still prefer on-hit builds for him, as being squishy teemo makes it hard to effectively split push until you're super farmed, whereas wit's + wriggle's makes you a stronger duelist.
The other thing to realize is that bloodrazor and ionic spark are both just bad items and as such, on-hit builds really just mean wit's + wriggle's and/or triforce and in teemo's case, possibly malady. Sad but true.
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AL:
Bans: Fizz, Vlad, Rammus
Picks: Ryze, Maokai, Janna, Galio, MF
WW:
Bans: Ahri, Ashe, Karthus
Picks: Cass, Kennen, Ali, Graves, Skarner
Cass + Kennen is super scary. Galio gives 0 fucks about Cass (bulwark heals off each tick), and Ryze is a beast. I'm excited about this one.
Janna + Galio could be interesting if they mess their ults up.
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Yeah, looks like the Ryze first pick led WW to grab Cass/Kennen, forgetting that Ryze can happily go top and letting AL grab Galio to throw against Cass. Shame WW trolled with changing from Warwick to Skarner at the last second. Both AD carries with the big AOEs to follow up Galio or Kennen ults, hrrrm.
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Kennen ult doesn't set graves up the same way Galio ult sets up MF tbh. I like the AL comp better, but WW has stronger individual picks IMO.
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NICE i love this lane switch up
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Huh, WW send Graves mid to face Galio, Cass top against Ryze, and Kennen to lane bot with Ali.
Graves shoves Galio's lane early when Galio doesn't have the mana to compete, but gets Flash-W'd by Mao for his troubles and AL get first blood. Cass is bullying Ryze top, though.
Ah, good work - Mao hands Ryze blue; Cass can't easily get hers being purple side top.
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On February 10 2012 04:53 Haasts wrote:
Huh, WW send Graves mid to face Galio, Cass top against Ryze, and Kennen to lane bot with Ali.
Graves shoves Galio's lane early when Galio doesn't have the mana to compete, but gets Flash-W'd by Mao for his troubles and AL get first blood. Cass is bullying Ryze top, though.
Yeah, I think it was a really smart switch. Cass > Ryze. I'm surprised Kennen isn't mid against Galio though. I feel like Kennen would do just fine against him.
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NVM they just say. AL is mistral right?
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i have this problem where when my lolreplay crashes, it puts my computer to sleep instead of crashing normally, anyone else have this?
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I don't understand... What is WW ? Is this tournament a pool or direct elimination ? >.>
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Baa?21244 Posts
On February 10 2012 03:01 Brees wrote:
ok lets not get ridiculous vlad does not outrade everyone once he gets revolver unless they have really short range spells. most mids can stay out of range of his E so your never going to out trade any of them. Ahri/cass/galio/swain/morg/malz/etc can all handle vlad no problem.
i find him a lot more effective top personally, but again he doesnt get really good until he hits that 9.
just my 2 cents from playing about 80 or so vlad games now (pre buff and post buff)
Vlad destroys morg, outpushes galio, out damages and outpushes malz unless r playing dumb and getting full comboed, outpushes kennen.
Swain and case are the only other aps who can straight up beat Vlad in lane right now. Maybe ryze actually but mr runes > all
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Fuck. Queued up for a ranked soloq, queue pops and I hear the lobby music but my entire screen is black.
Looks like this:
http://imgur.com/Zgtxw
Edit: music has died now. Still in that lobby. Wtf do I do?
Left the lobby, and able to requeue. Odd bug.
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On February 10 2012 05:01 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 03:01 Brees wrote:
ok lets not get ridiculous vlad does not outrade everyone once he gets revolver unless they have really short range spells. most mids can stay out of range of his E so your never going to out trade any of them. Ahri/cass/galio/swain/morg/malz/etc can all handle vlad no problem.
i find him a lot more effective top personally, but again he doesnt get really good until he hits that 9.
just my 2 cents from playing about 80 or so vlad games now (pre buff and post buff) Vlad destroys morg, outpushes galio, out damages and outpushes malz unless r playing dumb and getting full comboed, outpushes kennen. Swain and case are the only other aps who can straight up beat Vlad in lane right now. Maybe ryze actually but mr runes > all
Kass, Ahri, LB should all more or less curbstomp Vlad in lane as far as I can tell.
Don't see how you think you're outpushing Galio, Morg, Malz without exposing yourself to ganks that lead to full combos that kill you, they all push as hard as you do, a lot earlier, and from longer range.
I still just think vlad is so pathetic pre 7. I pretty much use the other team picking vlad as an excuse to go Jarman and dunk him into submission these days.
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TSM conflict resolution between TOO and TRM: Regi requests Xspecial to arbitrate the disagreement while watching replay. lololol
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AL pick up baron uncontested; Ryze is in raid boss mode right now.
Edit: Aaaaand, Galio D/Cs while getting under the enemy inhib tower. Hrrrm.
Skarner really can't do anything versus the tankiness of Ryze/Galio/Maokai to get to Miss Fortune/Janna.
Edit2: Galio reconnects, they 5-0 ace WW in WW's top jungle, GG. AL Prepared's Janna makes me want to play Janna again.
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Baa?21244 Posts
Kass is just as shitty in terms of CD as Vlad while being melee. Just trade autos and he's screwed.
You pool LBs ult.
I'm bad at Ahri so I reserve judgment on that.
Also MR runes.
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On February 10 2012 05:24 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Kass is just as shitty in terms of CD as Vlad while being melee. Just trade autos and he's screwed.
You pool LBs ult.
I'm bad at Ahri so I reserve judgment on that.
Also MR runes.
kass hits 6 and then just chunks you for 50+% of your HP pool every 8 secs or whatever from my experience in the matchup.
leblanc doesn't have to lolderp QR. She has 2 methods of landing her ult vs. you,
1. bait your pools with 1 Q and wait for a ~3 seconds before W'ing you if you manage to not just panic pool (if you do panic pool, she now zones you while you have to wait for pool CD again). assuming W connects, she now does E -> Q, which will double proc even through pool after the E (now she gets to land an ult on you), if instead you pool the W, she just waits on your pool to come up and then QREs you.
2. start her combos with E. when she hits an E, she fires a Q which you either have to pool, which then lets her RW when you come out of pool, or once again you get screwed by the E double proc, which then gets followed up with RW again.
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TSM about to scrim MOUZ... they are in champ select and bitching each other out. Should be fun if you like train wrecks
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EPT
