EPTEdit: Is it just me or does the in-game store feel more responsive?
[Patch 1.0.0.132: Sejuani] General Discussion - Page 9
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Public Service Announcement Use the Champion threads whenever appropriate. Don't use General Discussion simply out of ease. ===== If you want to whine about server lag, use the QQ thread. We all suffer alike when Riot servers kaput. No need to make a post about it in GD. | ||
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FR4CT4L
Australia697 Posts
Edit: Is it just me or does the in-game store feel more responsive? | ||
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Bessey
Iraq8 Posts
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On January 17 2012 20:03 Bessey wrote: Servers just came up!! The megaman Ez skin isn't in store yet, but the new champ is. There's no skinart for him yet. | ||
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On January 17 2012 20:02 Hidden_MotiveS wrote: Yes, shymuashe looks really stronk. Still not sure if overpowered. I just hate perma slow as a concept. Imagine if one champion had an ultimate on a 9minute cooldown. They can instagib someone on the enemy team. He might be balanced by other things but stupid to play against. It doesn't even matter if she's strong, the fact she is able to (soft)CC whole teams is just plain annoying. Also, their champ design is so uninspired these days. That Tijuana bitch looks like a frosty version of Shyvana. | ||
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LaNague
Germany9118 Posts
why did they remove red on spells, i never heard anyone complain. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On January 17 2012 20:27 LaNague wrote: interesting, gotta play some vlad again tomorrow. why did they remove red on spells, i never heard anyone complain. Red on spells most retarded shit ever, pantheon Qing you too strong. Give red to Vlad, Q all day. | ||
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schmutttt
Australia3856 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21242 Posts
On January 17 2012 19:40 mustaju wrote: For half a year already. Also mentioned it in several LoL themed responses. I am honestly surprised you didn't notice. Being observant is overrated :< | ||
mustaju
Estonia4504 Posts
What about CHEEP WATCH? | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
phreak: "I buy frozen mallet to slow enemies on attack." | ||
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ihasaKAROT
Netherlands4730 Posts
On January 17 2012 21:08 clickrush wrote: sejuani's passive slows enemies on attack. phreak: "I buy frozen mallet to slow enemies on attack." You mean all the other spotlights made sence to you? Phreak is allways off on style, skillorder and items. Not to mention his love for the jungle without being able to gank properly, and allways rushing triforce. Spotlights are more to check out the animations and castranges for stuff, all the rest is pure blablabla to me. | ||
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Promises
Netherlands1821 Posts
On January 17 2012 21:08 clickrush wrote: sejuani's passive slows enemies on attack. phreak: "I buy frozen mallet to slow enemies on attack." Well there's slow and there's sloooooooooooow. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
Pretty good nerf on skarner, felt like the q facerolling had to stop. I liked having to build mana and wriggles and stuff to get him to work instead of just rushing shurelyas and going herp de derp never run never die always kill. Like the mundo and vlad changes. Somehow dealing true damage to yourself felt a little bit weak once you start wanting some resists.. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 17 2012 19:55 JackDino wrote: They nerfed his early game damage and buffed his mid-lategame damage, earlygame is what he has the most issues with, mid-late he had more than enough damage before this change. He doesn't take into account the attackspeed you got from the old ult when comparing stats gained. Lol alistar new art looks weird. In other words, they changed a unique hybrid melee with a hard-carry lategame into yet another tanky bruiser who will buy Triforce/Atmogs. | ||
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Unentschieden
Germany1471 Posts
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SagaZ
France3460 Posts
I did the full clear faster than my udyr full clear with vamp septer. Althought, it's a bit like olaf where you get extremely low doing it | ||
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Blyf
Denmark408 Posts
On January 17 2012 17:29 TheYango wrote: That reddit post was well addressed. It's not the majority of her damage, but absolutely no champion in the game has a skill that accounts for the majority of their damage. Saying it's not problematic just because of that is an absolutely meaningless statement. What was established that as a steroid that has 100% uptime, it has a disproportionately high gold value in comparison to activate-able steroids that have less than 50% uptime. The gold value comparison is faulty as it does not account for the exponentially scaling properties of dps items (Vayne's W does not crit). For example Tristana's Q adds more DPS than Vayne W unless Vayne W procs optimally (every 3 hits) and the target is very tanky, in which case they add comparable dps. Please see the post below, which you seem to have ignored last time the discussion was up. Also, why would you look at one skill in isolation when comparing champion power levels? On December 29 2011 13:23 TheYango wrote: + Show Spoiler + Yes Vayne's W doesn't make up a huge portion of her damage. Neither does any other steroid in the game The thing about Vayne's W is that if you math out the gold value in terms of equivalent real AD, it has significantly higher gold value than even activatable steroids, such as Tristana's W, even if you account for the unreliability of having to hit 3 consecutive times. To illustrate: Consider an average tanky target HP lategame with 3000 HP and 150 armor. From a practical standpoint, this 150 armor is only actually worth about 70 armor, after ArPen marks and LW/10% ArPen mastery. This is a 41% damage reduction, which means that true damage is worth 70% more than plain AD. The 8% max HP component of Vayne's W does 240 true damage to that 3k HP dude. Coupled with the 60 base damage, this is 300 damage, or 100 true damage per attack, which is worth the equivalent of 170 normal AD. 170 normal AD is worth 5610 gold (based on BF Sword which is 1650 gold for 50 AD), which is worth more than TWICE as much as the gold value of Tristana's Q (based on Recurve Bow, which is 40% aspd for 1050 gold). Put a different way, even if you only get to proc Vayne's W once every 7 attacks, it's still worth more gold in steroid value than Tristana's Q, and Tristana's Q isn't always on. It's probably not on it's own what makes her strong, but when one of your skills is significantly stronger than all comparable skills on similar champions, it makes making your kit well rounded somewhat awkward. This calculation leaves out the fact that Vayne's W does not scale with crit, which is significant. Gold value from the bonus AD from W should be compared to the gold value of on hit modifiers like Wit's End or Madred's Bloodrazor - they also do not scale with crit, hence the lower gold cost per AD. On hit AD modifiers are tricky to value in gold, so let us look at the end result instead. Consider your case of a 3000 hp tank with 150 armor, resulting in an equivalent 170 AD gain per attack from W. Now let us compare Vayne to Tristana at at level 18, with an inventory consisting of Berserkers Greaves, Phantom Dancer, Infinity Edge and Last Whisper. (Standard AD carry runes, masteries etc.) Damage per second: Vayne without W: 695 Vayne with W: 959 Bonus dps from W: 264 Tristana without Q: 661 Tristana with Q: 915 Bonus dps from Q: 254 So Vayne's 264 are actually very close to Tristana's 254 making the steroids comparable. And don't forget the advantagous case for Vayne. For any target with lower hp/armor Tristana's Q will come out more valuable, and likewise any extra dps items purchased will add to Tristana's Q pulling ahead. And this is assuming max amount of procs from Vayne's W. TL;DR The above post left out the exponentially scaling properties of dps items. Tristana's Q adds comparable or more dps than Vayne's W in most circumstances (unless the target is very tanky). PS. TheYango I enjoy your posts as they are always informative. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On January 17 2012 21:33 Unentschieden wrote: Didn´t we conclude that Mundo isn´t a tank 2 years ago? He really isn´t very tanky, he just has a lot of regen - which ignite takes care of. Except you can build basically full tank ITEMS and then rely on really really high base damage or maybe an atmas or something. You shouldn't have huge problems surviving long enough to get your full ult duration. Even with ignite it's going to get most of its healing duration off unless you're casting it in the middle of the fight insetad of running off when a bunch of idiots try to focus a 3.5k health mundo with ignite. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 17 2012 21:35 Blyf wrote: The gold value comparison is faulty as it does not account for the exponentially scaling properties of dps items (Vayne's W does not crit). For example Tristana's Q adds more DPS than Vayne W unless Vayne W procs optimally (every 3 hits) and the target is very tanky, in which case they add comparable dps. Please see the post below, which you seem to have ignored last time the discussion was up. Also, why would you look at one skill in isolation when comparing champion power levels? I saw your post the first time. They are of comparable strength lategame against mediocre survivability values. Tristana's is slightly better against low HP/armor targets, and Vayne's is better against higher HP/armor targets. I still think Vayne's is superior because a steroid with 100% uptime should not have similar gold value to one that is up less than 50% of the time. Not to mention that the vast majority of the time, you should be hitting targets against whom Vayne's W is superior. On January 17 2012 21:35 Blyf wrote: Also, why would you look at one skill in isolation when comparing champion power levels? Because I think that nerfing AROUND her W will eventually give her an extremely un-balanced champion kit that's overly centered around her W? If you nerf everything else about a champion, but specifically decide not to touch one skill, their power is going to ride heavily on that skill. That makes said champion very fragile with regard to how they'll respond to other balance changes. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong about her W design-wise, but I think it's silly that Riot has chosen to nerf everything else, but leave W intact. Balanced nerfs across her entire kit are probably healthier than targeted nerfs that make her overall kit more lopsided. | ||
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