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On January 19 2012 01:02 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 00:55 Keniji wrote:On January 19 2012 00:24 turdburgler wrote:On January 18 2012 23:49 Dandel Ion wrote:On January 18 2012 23:39 turdburgler wrote:
but thats just a weakness of any hero in the game. nothing to do with kennen.
you dont argue that vayne is bad because if your entire team was AD she would get hurt a bit by armor.
infact kennen is the least of those countered by mr. aoe stun real stronk even if you are doing no dmg. rumble on the other hand either does dmg or goes home. I do argue that Vayne is bad in a teamcomp with 4 other AD's. Emphasis on teamcomp cause that's what I'm talking about. Nobody says Kennen is bad. In fact, Kennen is really, really strong. But to say that he works in/against EVERY teamcomp EVER is just delusional, and frankly, stupid. but thats nothing to do with kennen. your basically just stating that he isnt a good support because he needs to deal damage to be useful. i dont think anyone is trying to claim 4 mages is a good comp So what? Follow the whole argument why this point came up anyway. Someone said a bunch of champions who are all top notch top when they have the right conditions. Someone else said there isn't a bad condition for kennen, ergo he's always good. Well, 4 AP team certainly isn't a good composition/condition to last pick kennen top. It doesn't matter if say Morgana or Vladimir would be as bad or even worse, but there are better picks in that situation. Nobody tries to claim 4 mages is good, that's why kennen isn't always a viable pick, what is exactly why this argument started. And yea, most champions have this problem (maybe except for nidalee or smth) but that doens't mean it doesn't matter. but they arent equatable imo. picking 4 aps is an active choice by your team. still nothing to do with kennen per se. no outside influence can force you or stop you from going 4 ap, there will always be 4 aps in champ select. imo thats completely different from getting counter picked last, enemy swapping lanes, hard countered by x effect etc etc, which you maybe dont have much say in. your argument is equal to things like "kennen is bad if you buy no items" another thing which causes you do to no damage, you have no reason to do and you have complete control over. if kennen was real stronk but needed X champ mid to be that strong i would probably agree with you, that although op he needs something to assist him, but he doesnt. in any realistic game kennen is never a bad pick.
Somebody said Kennen is always good. It was proven wrong.
Now you say the same thing, just with the added "but every AP!!!!"
I think it's pointless to explain any further. Discussion closed, next topic.
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On January 18 2012 23:41 57 Corvette wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 23:28 RogerX wrote:
at rank 5 on W doesn't it give like 125 armor?........
.......... wow? Its just too damn strong. Plus you have to factor in her MR passive aura which prevents AP carries from instabursting soraka's allies, and whoever she puts the heal on gets tank like resistances for free.
Well, that's because she don't have any crowd control beside a short silence.
I hate Soraka but since her heal is like 20s CD and they nerfed the mana fountain part, she's fine as what she does. :/
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On January 19 2012 01:16 mr_tolkien wrote:
Could we do a list of very cost effective items on Jax ? This would be a good beginning for theorycrafting full builds.
I'd say :
Triforce
Rageblade
Gunblade
WotA
Rylai
Wits end
BT
Wits End
Atma (with health)
Abyssal
Bruta - ghostblade (gets you going with your passive very fast) ?
Void staff ?
Rabadon ? (for full trolling :D)
your just listing items that are cheap to complete / gain retarded unique passives. the opportunity cost is always whats kept people away from triforce. its probably best item per slot for like 90% of all champs. its just waiting for between 2-4k spare gold to build it from its 1 useful part is impossible.
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On January 19 2012 01:24 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 23:41 57 Corvette wrote:On January 18 2012 23:28 RogerX wrote:
at rank 5 on W doesn't it give like 125 armor?........
.......... wow? Its just too damn strong. Plus you have to factor in her MR passive aura which prevents AP carries from instabursting soraka's allies, and whoever she puts the heal on gets tank like resistances for free. Well, that's because she don't have any crowd control beside a short silence. I hate Soraka but since her heal is like 20s CD and they nerfed the mana fountain part, she's fine as what she does. :/
having a long cd just further makes me think she designed to be quite boring. having really powerful spells that have long cds as a support doesnt seem "fun" at all. you dont get that cool feel of blowing someone up like a long cd mage might have but your spells have to be pretty op to be good at all
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On January 19 2012 01:23 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 01:02 turdburgler wrote:On January 19 2012 00:55 Keniji wrote:On January 19 2012 00:24 turdburgler wrote:On January 18 2012 23:49 Dandel Ion wrote:On January 18 2012 23:39 turdburgler wrote:
but thats just a weakness of any hero in the game. nothing to do with kennen.
you dont argue that vayne is bad because if your entire team was AD she would get hurt a bit by armor.
infact kennen is the least of those countered by mr. aoe stun real stronk even if you are doing no dmg. rumble on the other hand either does dmg or goes home. I do argue that Vayne is bad in a teamcomp with 4 other AD's. Emphasis on teamcomp cause that's what I'm talking about. Nobody says Kennen is bad. In fact, Kennen is really, really strong. But to say that he works in/against EVERY teamcomp EVER is just delusional, and frankly, stupid. but thats nothing to do with kennen. your basically just stating that he isnt a good support because he needs to deal damage to be useful. i dont think anyone is trying to claim 4 mages is a good comp So what? Follow the whole argument why this point came up anyway. Someone said a bunch of champions who are all top notch top when they have the right conditions. Someone else said there isn't a bad condition for kennen, ergo he's always good. Well, 4 AP team certainly isn't a good composition/condition to last pick kennen top. It doesn't matter if say Morgana or Vladimir would be as bad or even worse, but there are better picks in that situation. Nobody tries to claim 4 mages is good, that's why kennen isn't always a viable pick, what is exactly why this argument started. And yea, most champions have this problem (maybe except for nidalee or smth) but that doens't mean it doesn't matter. but they arent equatable imo. picking 4 aps is an active choice by your team. still nothing to do with kennen per se. no outside influence can force you or stop you from going 4 ap, there will always be 4 aps in champ select. imo thats completely different from getting counter picked last, enemy swapping lanes, hard countered by x effect etc etc, which you maybe dont have much say in. your argument is equal to things like "kennen is bad if you buy no items" another thing which causes you do to no damage, you have no reason to do and you have complete control over. if kennen was real stronk but needed X champ mid to be that strong i would probably agree with you, that although op he needs something to assist him, but he doesnt. in any realistic game kennen is never a bad pick. Somebody said Kennen is always good. It was proven wrong. Now you say the same thing, just with the added "but every AP!!!!" I think it's pointless to explain any further. Discussion closed, next topic.
but the only example youve given of kennen ever being bad, never ever happen. imagine if there was a champion called WINbot. which had a spell which did 0 dmg global damage. but scalled at 9999999% of ap. buying 1 ap item would enable you to instantly kill the whole other team. what your argument equates to is that she isnt good in every situation, because you dont have to buy ap.
noone would ever do that. same way that to make a comp which is bad for kennen takes active effort on your part for him to be bad, you have to shoot yourself in the knee. thats nothing to do with kennen, thats you trolling yourself.
if you want to convince me kennen has bad teams give me a setup you might actually pick in which kennen is massively trumped by another hero, where the other team would still make the same counter picks if you picked the other hero.
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Now, would you shoot yourself with an arrow, or some other ranged weapon?
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On January 19 2012 01:37 Two_DoWn wrote:
Now, would you shoot yourself with an arrow, or some other ranged weapon?
I'd shoot myself with 7 arrows at once.
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On January 19 2012 01:16 mr_tolkien wrote:
Could we do a list of very cost effective items on Jax ? This would be a good beginning for theorycrafting full builds.
I'd say :
Triforce
Rageblade
Gunblade
WotA
Rylai
Wits end
BT
Wits End
Atma (with health)
Abyssal
Bruta - ghostblade (gets you going with your passive very fast) ?
Void staff ?
Rabadon ? (for full trolling :D)
Gunblade still core, wriggles if you need it in lane, not sure if you can still get away with a rageblade on top of that, haven't played him yet.
Are you squishy and you need more HP? Warmogs. Atma's isn't as good as it used to be(health-->ad--->health-->ad), but if they ad heavy I'd pick it up anyways. Are they magic heavy? Go FoN/Abysall, banshees if they cc heavy.
Are you rich as fuck? Go triforce. Can you afford to be glasscannon and do more damage? Go BT. Does your AP have will? Get one aswell.
Basically you can buy anything, it just depends on your lane and how the game goes.
I'd always get either gunblade, or wriggles and rageblade. Gunblade is just too good to pass up like that. Don't like that they removed the AD scaling from W though lol.
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Don't like kennen because he is squishy and he has to initiate. Bad combination in solo queue imo.
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The whole «Gunblade still core» doesn't sound right to me. I tried it and really it's just not an efficient item on Jax now. A rageblade is as good in pure burst and cheaper, a Triforce give a better burst and better all around stats, a Rylais provide perma slow, ... Gunblade really is in the middle of all this, sub-par on every front >.>
And furthermore, it doesn't give any attack speed, which is much needed on Jax for teamfights.
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On January 19 2012 01:43 Cloud wrote:
Don't like kennen because he is squishy and he has to initiate. Bad combination in solo queue imo.
Doesn't matter if you're squishy if you win teamfight lol. Sucks if your team doesn't know what following up is though.
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On January 19 2012 01:19 Cerotix wrote:
i just picked up karthus yesterday because i've been wanting to work on my map awareness more, felt like the reward of free kills with requiem would help justify me staring at the minimap some more. I've been maining AD bot for a while now and i've been finding I get a bit of tunnel vision during laning phase with just focusing on last hitting and not really paying enough attention to other lanes etc.
one question tho, im not really sure when to pick him, like what he works well with, who he gets countered by, who he counters, any help would be great
TL;DR - bought karthus, wanna know picks / counterpicks for him
The champs I have the most trouble with are like LB and Kass in lane and Kennen. The Karthus thread has some good discussion on him. I love him though hes my main  I would say he has a lot of utility so he can fit into a lot of comps but he is somewhat countered by high hp team comps and ones with a lot of heals though not too badly as he still does a shit ton of damage.
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On January 19 2012 01:19 Cerotix wrote:
i just picked up karthus yesterday because i've been wanting to work on my map awareness more, felt like the reward of free kills with requiem would help justify me staring at the minimap some more. I've been maining AD bot for a while now and i've been finding I get a bit of tunnel vision during laning phase with just focusing on last hitting and not really paying enough attention to other lanes etc.
one question tho, im not really sure when to pick him, like what he works well with, who he gets countered by, who he counters, any help would be great
TL;DR - bought karthus, wanna know picks / counterpicks for him
Kassadin and leblanc are hard counters, Soraka doesnt counter him nearly as hard as people say. he goes really well with aoe cc's but thats certainly not a necessity. If youre not getting countered in lane karthus can pretty much sit in lane for 30 minutes and get 100000 cs and carry the game.
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On January 19 2012 01:47 mr_tolkien wrote:
The whole «Gunblade still core» doesn't sound right to me. I tried it and really it's just not an efficient item on Jax now. A rageblade is as good in pure burst and cheaper, a Triforce give a better burst and better all around stats, a Rylais provide perma slow, ... Gunblade really is in the middle of all this, sub-par on every front >.>
And furthermore, it doesn't give any attack speed, which is much needed on Jax for teamfights.
Eeh, Gunblade gives really good sustain, which is necessary for him now that he doesn't have his huge ass health pool. You need something, whether it's lifesteal or spellvamp. Gunblade happens to give both, and decent stats otherwise, and a slow if you don't have one already.
I'd rather have BT/WotA together, but that is pretty damn expensive.
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On January 19 2012 02:01 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 01:47 mr_tolkien wrote:
The whole «Gunblade still core» doesn't sound right to me. I tried it and really it's just not an efficient item on Jax now. A rageblade is as good in pure burst and cheaper, a Triforce give a better burst and better all around stats, a Rylais provide perma slow, ... Gunblade really is in the middle of all this, sub-par on every front >.>
And furthermore, it doesn't give any attack speed, which is much needed on Jax for teamfights. Eeh, Gunblade gives really good sustain, which is necessary for him now that he doesn't have his huge ass health pool. You need something, whether it's lifesteal or spellvamp. Gunblade happens to give both, and decent stats otherwise, and a slow if you don't have one already. I'd rather have BT/WotA together, but that is pretty damn expensive.
RoA gives you plenty of sustain in lane. It even gives you mana to EWQ them every 30s without any problem. Plus a lot of AP.
Gunblade seems pretty damn expensive for the stats it has now...
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Canada13407 Posts
I tried swapping the minimap yesterday to the left since I'm more used to that in SC2 but i've realised the UI really really was never designed for it. It looks terrible. Would others agree with me on this one or am I alone?
Also: Since im still forced to play unranked I know next to nothing about how matchmaking works is there some sort of hidden ELO that it uses to place you against others?
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Why did the nerf trynd again? Everyone bitches about his sustain so I guess the hp5 is viable but his early level dmg wasnt ridiculous or anything. And I feel like the rage thing just makes jungle tryn completely unviable because now there's no way to gank with any rage, unless you go from maybe wraiths to mid, in which case youll still already be losing rage unless you use your spin :/
And the riven nerf is hardly even a nerf wtf. The problem has always been how Rivenhas a shield an escape a steroid and insane cc, with no mana cost. And they nerf.. nothing really. So dumb
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On January 19 2012 02:05 Ian Ian Ian wrote:
Why did the nerf trynd again? Everyone bitches about his sustain so I guess the hp5 is viable but his early level dmg wasnt ridiculous or anything. And I feel like the rage thing just makes jungle tryn completely unviable because now there's no way to gank with any rage, unless you go from maybe wraiths to mid, in which case youll still already be losing rage unless you use your spin :/
And the riven nerf is hardly even a nerf wtf. The problem has always been how Rivenhas a shield an escape a steroid and insane cc, with no mana cost. And they nerf.. nothing really. So dumb
Clearly you haven't tried to trade with Tryndamere early when he crits twice...
I never liked jungle Tryn anyway. He couldn't really get the farm necessary to carry as hard as he can like he does in lane.
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Riot destroyed jungle trynd when they made it so you coulndt press q. Made it really hard to jungle him with any measure of speed and safety.
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Yeah, I still had gunblade as core after its nerf because it just worked too well on Jax. It still does, but rushing gunblade now just doesn't really work. Gunblade still gives Jax everything he wants, but building up to that point with the changes just seems unfeasible. I'd probably still get gunblade as a lategame item because revolver is still a great item on him. It's just the question of how should one give Jax the tanky items he needs now and still give him both AD and AP? I know some Jax players have gone gunblade -> pure tank items since a while back, but I'm lost in how to build him early - mid game. I don't really think going wriggles -> trinity is feasible for the same sort of reasons that rushing gunblade isn't feasible. I just don't think Jax can survive the early - mid game with a build like that.
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EPT
