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Lol, I did some Dominion with new Jax, mostly so I could get a full build relatively quickly to test it out.
Merc's/BT/Ryali/Atma's/Gunblade/WotA. I don't know how you'd actually get to that in a normal game, or if it's even possible unless fed, but it's so silly strong that I can't believe it. Like, you 1v1 every champ in the game. Everything.
Edit:
Changed the build because I wasn't paying attention when I wrote it.
Maybe if you're jungling, you can do something like: Vamp start -> Boots -> Cutlass (slow is also nice if you remember it) -> Gunblade/Ryali core -> Atma/BT -> WotA if you get to that point. Or maybe Vamp start -> Boots -> BT -> WotA/Ryali core -> Atma -> Gunblade, but that might be a more expensive route?
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On January 18 2012 23:54 Requizen wrote:
Lol, I did some Dominion with new Jax, mostly so I could get a full build relatively quickly to test it out.
Merc's/BT/Ryali/Atma's/Gunblade/WotA. I don't know how you'd actually get to that in a normal game, or if it's even possible unless fed, but it's so silly strong that I can't believe it. Like, you 1v1 every champ in the game. Everything.
Edit:
Changed the build because I wasn't paying attention when I wrote it.
Maybe if you're jungling, you can do something like: Vamp start -> Boots -> Cutlass (slow is also nice if you remember it) -> Gunblade/Ryali core -> Atma/BT -> WotA if you get to that point. Or maybe Vamp start -> Boots -> BT -> WotA/Ryali core -> Atma -> Gunblade, but that might be a more expensive route?
I'm thinking that the new Jax begs for a wriggles => trinity core. That spammable empower is just so strong. From there, I'd tank out into Rylai/Atma and add items as needed.
I tried jungle jax last night, and he seemed to jungle pretty damn quickly and safely with just a vamp scepter opening. He can kill the wolves before blue is up, and still get a leash which sets him for a really strong run. He can even get red on the first run and look to gank before blue pilling.
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On January 19 2012 00:07 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 23:54 Requizen wrote:
Lol, I did some Dominion with new Jax, mostly so I could get a full build relatively quickly to test it out.
Merc's/BT/Ryali/Atma's/Gunblade/WotA. I don't know how you'd actually get to that in a normal game, or if it's even possible unless fed, but it's so silly strong that I can't believe it. Like, you 1v1 every champ in the game. Everything.
Edit:
Changed the build because I wasn't paying attention when I wrote it.
Maybe if you're jungling, you can do something like: Vamp start -> Boots -> Cutlass (slow is also nice if you remember it) -> Gunblade/Ryali core -> Atma/BT -> WotA if you get to that point. Or maybe Vamp start -> Boots -> BT -> WotA/Ryali core -> Atma -> Gunblade, but that might be a more expensive route? I'm thinking that the new Jax begs for a wriggles => trinity core. That spammable empower is just so strong. From there, I'd tank out into Rylai/Atma and add items as needed. I tried jungle jax last night, and he seemed to jungle pretty damn quickly and safely with just a vamp scepter opening. He can kill the wolves before blue is up, and still get a leash which sets him for a really strong run. He can even get red on the first run and look to gank before blue pilling.
I don't know about TF. Yeah, he's one of the few champs that use all the stats, but I feel that the Sheen proc is, maybe not wasted, but not the best on him. His base AD isn't super high like Cho, Skarner, Kass, etc, and the Phage proc is almost silly if you're going to be getting Ryali and have Red through jungling. It's a very mid-game item, when his +20% AD and +20% AP ult just screams "stack late game items for free wins", and I feel that Empower's very nice AP scaling will outstrip the proc quickly.
His jungle is fast and safe, but I don't have enough AS runes yet '~' Need to be faster.
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On January 18 2012 23:49 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 23:39 turdburgler wrote:
but thats just a weakness of any hero in the game. nothing to do with kennen.
you dont argue that vayne is bad because if your entire team was AD she would get hurt a bit by armor.
infact kennen is the least of those countered by mr. aoe stun real stronk even if you are doing no dmg. rumble on the other hand either does dmg or goes home. I do argue that Vayne is bad in a teamcomp with 4 other AD's. Emphasis on teamcomp cause that's what I'm talking about. Nobody says Kennen is bad. In fact, Kennen is really, really strong. But to say that he works in/against EVERY teamcomp EVER is just delusional, and frankly, stupid.
but thats nothing to do with kennen. your basically just stating that he isnt a good support because he needs to deal damage to be useful. i dont think anyone is trying to claim 4 mages is a good comp
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This is both really old, and also supah troll haha. The ponies should be a dead giveaway. :3
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"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."
"Every champ is good. But if you judge a support by its ability to deal damage, it will spend its whole life in low elo QQing"
So can we all stop arguing about supports dealing damage n such
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On January 19 2012 00:13 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 00:07 xDaunt wrote:On January 18 2012 23:54 Requizen wrote:
Lol, I did some Dominion with new Jax, mostly so I could get a full build relatively quickly to test it out.
Merc's/BT/Ryali/Atma's/Gunblade/WotA. I don't know how you'd actually get to that in a normal game, or if it's even possible unless fed, but it's so silly strong that I can't believe it. Like, you 1v1 every champ in the game. Everything.
Edit:
Changed the build because I wasn't paying attention when I wrote it.
Maybe if you're jungling, you can do something like: Vamp start -> Boots -> Cutlass (slow is also nice if you remember it) -> Gunblade/Ryali core -> Atma/BT -> WotA if you get to that point. Or maybe Vamp start -> Boots -> BT -> WotA/Ryali core -> Atma -> Gunblade, but that might be a more expensive route? I'm thinking that the new Jax begs for a wriggles => trinity core. That spammable empower is just so strong. From there, I'd tank out into Rylai/Atma and add items as needed. I tried jungle jax last night, and he seemed to jungle pretty damn quickly and safely with just a vamp scepter opening. He can kill the wolves before blue is up, and still get a leash which sets him for a really strong run. He can even get red on the first run and look to gank before blue pilling. I don't know about TF. Yeah, he's one of the few champs that use all the stats, but I feel that the Sheen proc is, maybe not wasted, but not the best on him. His base AD isn't super high like Cho, Skarner, Kass, etc, and the Phage proc is almost silly if you're going to be getting Ryali and have Red through jungling. It's a very mid-game item, when his +20% AD and +20% AP ult just screams "stack late game items for free wins", and I feel that Empower's very nice AP scaling will outstrip the proc quickly. His jungle is fast and safe, but I don't have enough AS runes yet '~' Need to be faster.
i dont understand why people dont like stacking slows, unless theres some deminishing return i dont know about a 10% slow is still 10% of their current speed gone, no matter how many other slows you already have on them. just because its impossible to freeze people in place doesnt make stacked slows bad.
On January 19 2012 00:30 ihasaKAROT wrote:
"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."
"Every champ is good. But if you judge a support by its ability to deal damage, it will spend its whole life in low elo QQing"
So can we all stop arguing about supports dealing damage n such
1. thats not what we were talking about
2. Evelyn
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New sivir feels so stupidly overpowered, and fun. Played like 10 games with her now, and i think i have carried in every one of them. I usually don't want to play AD:s because i cant seem to do anything with them, but Sivir... I am in love. <3
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On January 19 2012 00:32 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 00:13 Requizen wrote:On January 19 2012 00:07 xDaunt wrote:On January 18 2012 23:54 Requizen wrote:
Lol, I did some Dominion with new Jax, mostly so I could get a full build relatively quickly to test it out.
Merc's/BT/Ryali/Atma's/Gunblade/WotA. I don't know how you'd actually get to that in a normal game, or if it's even possible unless fed, but it's so silly strong that I can't believe it. Like, you 1v1 every champ in the game. Everything.
Edit:
Changed the build because I wasn't paying attention when I wrote it.
Maybe if you're jungling, you can do something like: Vamp start -> Boots -> Cutlass (slow is also nice if you remember it) -> Gunblade/Ryali core -> Atma/BT -> WotA if you get to that point. Or maybe Vamp start -> Boots -> BT -> WotA/Ryali core -> Atma -> Gunblade, but that might be a more expensive route? I'm thinking that the new Jax begs for a wriggles => trinity core. That spammable empower is just so strong. From there, I'd tank out into Rylai/Atma and add items as needed. I tried jungle jax last night, and he seemed to jungle pretty damn quickly and safely with just a vamp scepter opening. He can kill the wolves before blue is up, and still get a leash which sets him for a really strong run. He can even get red on the first run and look to gank before blue pilling. I don't know about TF. Yeah, he's one of the few champs that use all the stats, but I feel that the Sheen proc is, maybe not wasted, but not the best on him. His base AD isn't super high like Cho, Skarner, Kass, etc, and the Phage proc is almost silly if you're going to be getting Ryali and have Red through jungling. It's a very mid-game item, when his +20% AD and +20% AP ult just screams "stack late game items for free wins", and I feel that Empower's very nice AP scaling will outstrip the proc quickly. His jungle is fast and safe, but I don't have enough AS runes yet '~' Need to be faster. i dont understand why people dont like stacking slows, unless theres some deminishing return i dont know about a 10% slow is still 10% of their current speed gone, no matter how many other slows you already have on them. just because its impossible to freeze people in place doesnt make stacked slows bad. Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 00:30 ihasaKAROT wrote:
"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."
"Every champ is good. But if you judge a support by its ability to deal damage, it will spend its whole life in low elo QQing"
So can we all stop arguing about supports dealing damage n such 1. thats not what we were talking about 2. Evelyn
Didn't we talk about this earlier in the thread? Slows aren't additive, they're multiplicative, and are diminished. From the wiki:
If a champion is affected by multiple slows, the strongest one will be fully applied, while the others are applied sequentially with 35% reduced effectiveness down to 65% of its original strength.
A champion with a raw movement speed of 400 is affected by a 2 second long 40% slow and a 5 second long 20% slow at the same time.
For the first two seconds, the effective slow will be 1 − (1 − 0.4) × (1 − 0.2 × 0.65) = 47.8%, so he will have 400 × 0.522 = 208.8 raw movement speed.
So, yes, you'll probably get another ~10% MS slow, but if you can't catch them with jump, stun, and them slowed by Rylai, then I don't think the issue is with the slow.
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hmmm, i dont know i think slows in general are underrated if thats possible, even if added slows are only 2/3rd of their strength
as seen in your example a 40% + 20% still add up to 50%
its not just about you keeping up with them. i know its hard to put a value on it but so many times people get away because other people involved in the fighting couldnt keep up or close distance.
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On January 19 2012 00:30 ihasaKAROT wrote:
"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."
"Every champ is good. But if you judge a support by its ability to deal damage, it will spend its whole life in low elo QQing"
So can we all stop arguing about supports dealing damage n such
LB support is completely legit. So is Trist Karma with Heal/Ignite and Heal/Exhaust. =(
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On January 19 2012 00:24 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 23:49 Dandel Ion wrote:On January 18 2012 23:39 turdburgler wrote:
but thats just a weakness of any hero in the game. nothing to do with kennen.
you dont argue that vayne is bad because if your entire team was AD she would get hurt a bit by armor.
infact kennen is the least of those countered by mr. aoe stun real stronk even if you are doing no dmg. rumble on the other hand either does dmg or goes home. I do argue that Vayne is bad in a teamcomp with 4 other AD's. Emphasis on teamcomp cause that's what I'm talking about. Nobody says Kennen is bad. In fact, Kennen is really, really strong. But to say that he works in/against EVERY teamcomp EVER is just delusional, and frankly, stupid. but thats nothing to do with kennen. your basically just stating that he isnt a good support because he needs to deal damage to be useful. i dont think anyone is trying to claim 4 mages is a good comp
So what? Follow the whole argument why this point came up anyway.
Someone said a bunch of champions who are all top notch top when they have the right conditions. Someone else said there isn't a bad condition for kennen, ergo he's always good.
Well, 4 AP team certainly isn't a good composition/condition to last pick kennen top. It doesn't matter if say Morgana or Vladimir would be as bad or even worse, but there are better picks in that situation.
Nobody tries to claim 4 mages is good, that's why kennen isn't always a viable pick, what is exactly why this argument started.
And yea, most champions have this problem (maybe except for nidalee or smth) but that doens't mean it doesn't matter.
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I'm not quite sure what has happened, but after this patch I am suddenly getting 52fps on the entire map instead of the 30 i used to be getting. Anyone else having this? Not that i'm complaining or anything 
I have yet to play or see Sej in a game yet, so i'll refrain from discussion for now
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On January 19 2012 00:53 turdburgler wrote:
hmmm, i dont know i think slows in general are underrated if thats possible, even if added slows are only 2/3rd of their strength
as seen in your example a 40% + 20% still add up to 50%
Well yeah, but do you really need it? Like I said, is that extra 10% really going to make the difference in whether you catch someone or they get away? Maybe once in a while, but I don't think that's really worth the gold cost of a Phage - TF, to be honest. Plus, assuming we're still talking jungle Jax (I know I am), you're also going to be having Red most of the time, further decreasing any other slow's effectiveness.
TF is a viable option going into the mid game, but I think going for more of a late game itemization, it's not as necessary.
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On January 19 2012 00:55 Keniji wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 00:24 turdburgler wrote:On January 18 2012 23:49 Dandel Ion wrote:On January 18 2012 23:39 turdburgler wrote:
but thats just a weakness of any hero in the game. nothing to do with kennen.
you dont argue that vayne is bad because if your entire team was AD she would get hurt a bit by armor.
infact kennen is the least of those countered by mr. aoe stun real stronk even if you are doing no dmg. rumble on the other hand either does dmg or goes home. I do argue that Vayne is bad in a teamcomp with 4 other AD's. Emphasis on teamcomp cause that's what I'm talking about. Nobody says Kennen is bad. In fact, Kennen is really, really strong. But to say that he works in/against EVERY teamcomp EVER is just delusional, and frankly, stupid. but thats nothing to do with kennen. your basically just stating that he isnt a good support because he needs to deal damage to be useful. i dont think anyone is trying to claim 4 mages is a good comp So what? Follow the whole argument why this point came up anyway. Someone said a bunch of champions who are all top notch top when they have the right conditions. Someone else said there isn't a bad condition for kennen, ergo he's always good. Well, 4 AP team certainly isn't a good composition/condition to last pick kennen top. It doesn't matter if say Morgana or Vladimir would be as bad or even worse, but there are better picks in that situation. Nobody tries to claim 4 mages is good, that's why kennen isn't always a viable pick, what is exactly why this argument started. And yea, most champions have this problem (maybe except for nidalee or smth) but that doens't mean it doesn't matter.
but they arent equatable imo. picking 4 aps is an active choice by your team. still nothing to do with kennen per se. no outside influence can force you or stop you from going 4 ap, there will always be 4 aps in champ select.
imo thats completely different from getting counter picked last, enemy swapping lanes, hard countered by x effect etc etc, which you maybe dont have much say in.
your argument is equal to things like "kennen is bad if you buy no items" another thing which causes you do to no damage, you have no reason to do and you have complete control over.
if kennen was real stronk but needed X champ mid to be that strong i would probably agree with you, that although op he needs something to assist him, but he doesnt. in any realistic game kennen is never a bad pick.
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Jax build thoughts? I don't think I'd build him much differently from how I used to a couple months ago.
Start boots + pots (most of the time)
Revolver
Finish boots/gunblade
Sheen
Rageblade
Situational tank item (abyssal was nice)
Triforce
Another tank item (GA or QSS usually)
Sometime I went wriggles before gunblade but I found the above more fun.
Would need to change up runes though but I guess AR yellows make sense. And maybe I'd need to switch off MRPen reds and go with ASpeed.
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On January 18 2012 16:58 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 16:15 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:Dyrus is saying he can't gank anywhere with sejuani since there are wards and people can just blink away and play safe. I often just buy pink wards now and ward for my allies where I think the enemy wards are. Now he's saying he's gonna get 2 gp5 and just farm. There's also a period before people (non supports in normal games) don't buy wards that some junglers can abuse Well, thats a little silly because I think Sej has the strongest level three ganks currently in the game. Only bot lane should have wards by then. And hell, if the other team is all worried that Sej is gonna own their face with a level 3 gank, is that not a good thing? Means you can just laugh, counter jungle hard, and let your teammates push. /shrug
she's a poor duelist, if she got caught in enemy jungle by a skarner, udyr, or anyone else, she'd get her face smashed in.
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Could we do a list of very cost effective items on Jax ? This would be a good beginning for theorycrafting full builds.
I'd say :
Triforce
Rageblade
Gunblade
WotA
Rylai
Wits end
BT
Wits End
Atma (with health)
Abyssal
Bruta - ghostblade (gets you going with your passive very fast) ?
Void staff ?
Rabadon ? (for full trolling :D)
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i just picked up karthus yesterday because i've been wanting to work on my map awareness more, felt like the reward of free kills with requiem would help justify me staring at the minimap some more. I've been maining AD bot for a while now and i've been finding I get a bit of tunnel vision during laning phase with just focusing on last hitting and not really paying enough attention to other lanes etc.
one question tho, im not really sure when to pick him, like what he works well with, who he gets countered by, who he counters, any help would be great
TL;DR - bought karthus, wanna know picks / counterpicks for him
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EPT
