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[Patch 1.0.0.131: Viktor] General Discussion - Page 66

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AwayFromLife
Profile Joined August 2011
United States441 Posts
January 04 2012 19:52 GMT
#1301
How the hell do people consider Vayne a good champ? Short range, squishy, single target only champion who needs to auto attack repeatedly to be useful. If the enemy team even knows what "focus fire" means, she's completely useless 100% of the time since she has no escapes or defensive maneuvers aside from a short stealth that doesn't last more than a couple seconds.

Yes I mad. I paid 6300 for this champ only for her to be focused every fight and laughed at in lane because she gets out ranged and bursted unless you're fed by bad enemies.
JackDino
Profile Joined July 2010
Gabon6219 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-04 19:55:47
January 04 2012 19:54 GMT
#1302
On January 05 2012 04:52 AwayFromLife wrote:
How the hell do people consider Vayne a good champ? Short range, squishy, single target only champion who needs to auto attack repeatedly to be useful. If the enemy team even knows what "focus fire" means, she's completely useless 100% of the time since she has no escapes or defensive maneuvers aside from a short stealth that doesn't last more than a couple seconds.

Yes I mad. I paid 6300 for this champ only for her to be focused every fight and laughed at in lane because she gets out ranged and bursted unless you're fed by bad enemies.

That can be said about a lot of the ADs lol. Vayne is like an ad carry with an assassin kit, fkin dumb. Position correctly and you won't get focus fired unless they have like a noc and a talon on their team, stupid shit like that.
This isnt Broodwar so I dont owe anyone respect for beating me. -arb
Brees
Profile Joined January 2010
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
January 04 2012 19:55 GMT
#1303
vayne plays more like a melee dps then a ranged one. If you cant micro for shit and are just used to herpin and derpin right click then she wont be for you. I feel this is why former tanky dps players play her well. doubleft, chaox both used to play irelia/blitz/poppy/garen/etc
Brees on in
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
January 04 2012 19:59 GMT
#1304
Vayne is great. Just don't play her like a normal Ranged AD. Her short range is her weakness, just take that into consideration before you enter a team fight or whenever you Tumble.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
January 04 2012 20:03 GMT
#1305
Vayne escapes so much better than a lot of AD carries. Ult + q pretty much guarantees that she gets away and is able to reposition, which can often lead you to land a e proc and subsequently kill a carry or maul a tank.
Cloud
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Sexico5880 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-04 20:06:14
January 04 2012 20:05 GMT
#1306
The stealth is unbelievably annoying in teamfights. You jump her as irelia or w/e then suddenly *poof* she's gone and you're just standing there dying wondering omg where is she!?
BlueLaguna on West, msg for game.
Terranasaur
Profile Joined May 2011
United States2085 Posts
January 04 2012 20:07 GMT
#1307
On January 05 2012 04:52 AwayFromLife wrote:
How the hell do people consider Vayne a good champ? Short range, squishy, single target only champion who needs to auto attack repeatedly to be useful. If the enemy team even knows what "focus fire" means, she's completely useless 100% of the time since she has no escapes or defensive maneuvers aside from a short stealth that doesn't last more than a couple seconds.

Yes I mad. I paid 6300 for this champ only for her to be focused every fight and laughed at in lane because she gets out ranged and bursted unless you're fed by bad enemies.



People consider Vayne a good champ because she is. True Damage. Tumble. She just wrecks shit. She's not meant to sit back in lane a lob bombs from the fountain like Kog, she's meant to healthbar you by tumbling around and catching you out of position. Kind of like Shaco. Kind of like Akali. She's more of a ranged assassin than anything else. If you try to play her like Ashe, you're gonna fail.
Decisions Determine Destiny - Terranasaur#1719 D3 #557 SC2 3DS FC: 2423-3623-8068
AwayFromLife
Profile Joined August 2011
United States441 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-04 20:21:33
January 04 2012 20:16 GMT
#1308
Out of position. That's funny, considering whenever you jump on someone they can take out your health in about 3 hits, and you have to be in range because she's barely longer than melee. I can't count the number of times I've jumped on someone (me at full, them at half), and they burst me to dead before I can get more than 3 shots off. So good.

I'm really good at killing supports though. Oh, except Sona. And Taric. And Soraka. And Leona.

The only times I find her good is if I get fed easy kills early on or if I don't participate in fights at all except to pick off stragglers. Might as well play Karthus in that regard.
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
January 04 2012 20:23 GMT
#1309
If you're Tumbling in and get blown up by the entire enemy team, you're probably doing it wrong...

Assassins don't initiate at all. You clean up for your team.

Your scenario doesn't even make sense. If this is a 1v1, how do you lose full health vs half unless they're 3+ levels above you with superior items. In that case, why you even fighting? If you're diving for a kill and dying before you secure the kill, perhaps you shouldn't rambo.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
January 04 2012 20:23 GMT
#1310
On January 05 2012 05:16 AwayFromLife wrote:
Out of position. That's funny, considering whenever you jump on someone they can take out your health in about 3 hits, and you have to be in range because she's barely longer than melee. I can't count the number of times I've jumped on someone (me at full, them at half), and they burst me to dead before I can get more than 3 shots off. So good.

I'm really good at killing supports though. Oh, except Sona. And Taric. And Soraka. And Leona.

The only times I find her good is if I get fed easy kills early on or if I don't participate in fights at all except to pick off stragglers. Might as well play Karthus in that regard.

You are doing something really wrong then. Vayne is just about the best 1v1 ad carry in the game. Based on your descriptions of your play in your posts you are either a) failing your mechanics or b) not farming very well at all.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-04 20:26:26
January 04 2012 20:23 GMT
#1311
On January 05 2012 05:16 AwayFromLife wrote:
Out of position. That's funny, considering whenever you jump on someone they can take out your health in about 3 hits, and you have to be in range because she's barely longer than melee. I can't count the number of times I've jumped on someone (me at full, them at half), and they burst me to dead before I can get more than 3 shots off. So good.

I'm really good at killing supports though. Oh, except Sona. And Taric. And Soraka. And Leona.

The only times I find her good is if I get fed easy kills early on or if I don't participate in fights at all except to pick off stragglers. Might as well play Karthus in that regard.

She is not good to fight against any other AD carry in a 1vs1, Graves crush her, ashe too, cait too. But she is just the best AD of the game if you can hit without being hit in return or against most of the close range fighter except maybe nocturne, talon and Irelia - the passiv is just so strong mid/late game and her ulti gives her a great boost on everything, not to mention that condemn can give you a freekill or can just get someone out of your sight.
You just need to know how to play her, while hero such as Graves or Cait are just so dumb.
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
AwayFromLife
Profile Joined August 2011
United States441 Posts
January 04 2012 20:27 GMT
#1312
Same level, similar items. Go in. GP shot crits me for half my health. Lee Sin bursts me down and then Q's me for 20% of my health. Riven is Riven. Brand instastuns and walks away under tower. Akali bursts and invis's. Graves QR free armor and AS. Cait jumps away and QR outrange. Xerath instastun and RRR for healthbar.

There are like, 10 champions in the game that don't have the necessary burst or CC to take Vayne in a straight fight. All you have to do is stay away from walls to avoid the stun and damage from E, CC her, and walk away or combo her dead.
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
January 04 2012 20:28 GMT
#1313
Vayne is great against any Ranged AD but you need to land a Condemn stun to ensure you get at least 1 full W round off. If you are fighting without landing a Condemn stun, you need to disengage asaply. It's going to be a bad trade for you. Enemy AD's kit will most likely out DPS Vayne without her full Condemn.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
January 04 2012 20:29 GMT
#1314
On January 05 2012 05:23 WhiteDog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2012 05:16 AwayFromLife wrote:
Out of position. That's funny, considering whenever you jump on someone they can take out your health in about 3 hits, and you have to be in range because she's barely longer than melee. I can't count the number of times I've jumped on someone (me at full, them at half), and they burst me to dead before I can get more than 3 shots off. So good.

I'm really good at killing supports though. Oh, except Sona. And Taric. And Soraka. And Leona.

The only times I find her good is if I get fed easy kills early on or if I don't participate in fights at all except to pick off stragglers. Might as well play Karthus in that regard.

She is not good to fight against any other AD carry in a 1vs1, Graves crush her, ashe too, cait too. But she is just the best AD of the game if you can hit without being hit in return or against most of the close range fighter except maybe nocturne, talon and Irelia - the passiv is just so strong mid/late game and her ulti gives her a great boost on everything, not to mention that condemn can give you a freekill or can just get someone out of your sight.
You just need to know how to play her, while hero such as Graves or Cait are just so dumb.

huh? she murders people in 1v1s. dafuck are you talking about?
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Terranasaur
Profile Joined May 2011
United States2085 Posts
January 04 2012 20:29 GMT
#1315
On January 05 2012 05:16 AwayFromLife wrote:
Out of position. That's funny, considering whenever you jump on someone they can take out your health in about 3 hits, and you have to be in range because she's barely longer than melee. I can't count the number of times I've jumped on someone (me at full, them at half), and they burst me to dead before I can get more than 3 shots off. So good.

I'm really good at killing supports though. Oh, except Sona. And Taric. And Soraka. And Leona.

The only times I find her good is if I get fed easy kills early on or if I don't participate in fights at all except to pick off stragglers. Might as well play Karthus in that regard.



Ya. You're right. Vayne sucks and is never picked in high ELO or tournament games at all... Oh wait.

The problem isn't the champion bro. If you wanna be the guy that jumps in and initiates fights, play Amumu. Claybe is an Assassin. If you jump on an Annie or a Leblanc and she blows her load on you, you're probably gonna die. But if you wait for a proper engagement, and position yourself properly, you'll get a quadrakill.
Decisions Determine Destiny - Terranasaur#1719 D3 #557 SC2 3DS FC: 2423-3623-8068
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
January 04 2012 20:30 GMT
#1316
On January 05 2012 05:27 AwayFromLife wrote:
Same level, similar items. Go in. GP shot crits me for half my health. Lee Sin bursts me down and then Q's me for 20% of my health. Riven is Riven. Brand instastuns and walks away under tower. Akali bursts and invis's. Graves QR free armor and AS. Cait jumps away and QR outrange. Xerath instastun and RRR for healthbar.

There are like, 10 champions in the game that don't have the necessary burst or CC to take Vayne in a straight fight. All you have to do is stay away from walls to avoid the stun and damage from E, CC her, and walk away or combo her dead.

Vayne is one of the few hero where you really need to brain out when to engage or not, but aside from that, she is maybe the only hero that can take out a tank or an off tank the easy way.
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-04 20:35:58
January 04 2012 20:32 GMT
#1317
Stop trying to play her straightforward. I can't play her because that's just how I play: straightforward, run in and engage. She will die 100% of the time like that. Same reason I don't play Rogues in WoW, same reason I have trouble playing Protoss in SC2. You have to play intellectually and plan out, you can't just John Madden your way to victory.

Edit: I think this is why a lot of new Vayne players are bad at the champ. You see good players win every fight they go in to, and you think you can do the same, but you don't realize those good players are actually very specifically choosing their engages. Same goes for Shaco and other assassins.

It's not "I can win every fight I go in on", it's "I can pick and choose what fights I have a 100% chance to win".
It's your boy Guzma!
Kaniol
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Poland5551 Posts
January 04 2012 20:37 GMT
#1318
On January 05 2012 05:16 AwayFromLife wrote:
Out of position. That's funny, considering whenever you jump on someone they can take out your health in about 3 hits, and you have to be in range because she's barely longer than melee. I can't count the number of times I've jumped on someone (me at full, them at half), and they burst me to dead before I can get more than 3 shots off. So good.

I'm really good at killing supports though. Oh, except Sona. And Taric. And Soraka. And Leona.

The only times I find her good is if I get fed easy kills early on or if I don't participate in fights at all except to pick off stragglers. Might as well play Karthus in that regard.

You don't jump on someone as ranged ad, that's what bruisers do... From the way you describe it seems that you are playing her wrong. And playing every single ranged AD wrong.
NotSorry
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States6722 Posts
January 04 2012 20:43 GMT
#1319
guys this is bullshit if we lined up all ads and right clicked each other vayne is the worse in the game I want a refund!
We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. - Orwell
JackDino
Profile Joined July 2010
Gabon6219 Posts
January 04 2012 20:45 GMT
#1320
Vayne practically gets a free hit off in a 1v1 vs other ads which sometimes might just be enough. If you're near a wall you're always fucked.
This isnt Broodwar so I dont owe anyone respect for beating me. -arb
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