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[Patch 1.0.0.131: Viktor] General Discussion - Page 212

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overt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States9006 Posts
January 15 2012 00:11 GMT
#4221
On January 15 2012 09:00 Alaric wrote:
I've never really felt threatened by any Morgana I saw. One beat me, but I played badly (and now I want to smartcast Q on Gragas). I'm also arguably at a quite lower level than most of you, but they always seem to assume "Oh it's Morg, ez modo, I don't have to try hard" and thus not be able to do that well if the game isn't handed to them.


The thing about Morg though is that she probably won't kill you in lane unless you fuck up. All she has to do to win the lane though is play smart and even then she can play a little reckless and still out CS you and not die to you. Her mid and late game is really strong and she has one of the best ults for any AP carry not to mention the massive utility she brings to a team.

So while she won't crush lanes she can easily out CS you and still find time to gank your top or bottom while being a monster midgame and late game champ. She isn't like 100% our team wins cause we have Morgana or anything like that it's just that she really has very few bad match ups and even her "bad match ups" she can still survive in lane.
Brees
Profile Joined January 2010
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
January 15 2012 00:19 GMT
#4222
you guys should watch more good morgs play like loci. those are the shit morgs that just durp around and get cs. If I have a matchup that isnt bad im going to zone the shit out of you and continually try to hit qs before i heal up with W. She is a gank proof character and you should treat her like one, if you hit 1 Q its a kill. shes not the down syndrome non killing character you make her out to be, i frequently get kills in lane.
Brees on in
Cloud
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Sexico5880 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-15 00:21:47
January 15 2012 00:19 GMT
#4223
Morg should get destroyed in lane by any competent ahri.

Even if she lands a bind on you her ult wont get the second tick off btw.
BlueLaguna on West, msg for game.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
January 15 2012 00:28 GMT
#4224
On January 15 2012 08:22 hustling wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 08:15 LoCicero wrote:
After playing Viktor for a couple games I have concluded that he is indeed garbage. His E is really his only decent move. His Q doesn't move fast enough to even be useful, his W takes too long to place and stun to actually be useful, and his passive is no good because it takes up an item slot and cannot be sold.

At level 18 doesn't the Augment: Death give you +99 AP. Is that not worth it?

Pretty much any of your late-game items is going to be worth more than just +99 AP and 30% damage increase on 1 spell.
Moderator
Brees
Profile Joined January 2010
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
January 15 2012 00:30 GMT
#4225
On January 15 2012 09:19 Cloud wrote:
Morg should get destroyed in lane by any competent ahri.

Even if she lands a bind on you her ult wont get the second tick off btw.


her skillshots are too slow, but i agree you wont be able to kill ahri. really hard to die to though.
Brees on in
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
January 15 2012 00:36 GMT
#4226
On January 15 2012 09:11 overt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 09:00 Alaric wrote:
I've never really felt threatened by any Morgana I saw. One beat me, but I played badly (and now I want to smartcast Q on Gragas). I'm also arguably at a quite lower level than most of you, but they always seem to assume "Oh it's Morg, ez modo, I don't have to try hard" and thus not be able to do that well if the game isn't handed to them.


The thing about Morg though is that she probably won't kill you in lane unless you fuck up. All she has to do to win the lane though is play smart and even then she can play a little reckless and still out CS you and not die to you. Her mid and late game is really strong and she has one of the best ults for any AP carry not to mention the massive utility she brings to a team.

So while she won't crush lanes she can easily out CS you and still find time to gank your top or bottom while being a monster midgame and late game champ. She isn't like 100% our team wins cause we have Morgana or anything like that it's just that she really has very few bad match ups and even her "bad match ups" she can still survive in lane.


I know that, I was more talking about the:
On January 15 2012 09:19 Brees wrote:
you guys should watch more good morgs play like loci. those are the shit morgs that just durp around and get cs.


I feel like said shit morgs far outnumber good ones, which is what I'm saying since the beginning and why I think she shouldn't get banned. At least a the level I play at, I know I never regret it whenever a Morg slip by in the enemy team.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Saeglopur
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada177 Posts
January 15 2012 01:00 GMT
#4227
I would LOVE for someone to post a decent morg replay. Ahri has pretty much replaced morg on the ban list and I see her unpicked quite often in ranked. I know loci has a replay folder but the games are quite outdated.
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
January 15 2012 01:09 GMT
#4228
Why do low level players think Amumu is ridiculously strong? I duo queued a normal with a buddy who is only level 21.

I get captain, and didn't ban Mummy because he isn't ban worthy despite the cries of all four. Lock in Jungle Shy and instantly get yelled at for picking Shy instead of Mumu, and tell them all that if the other teams jungler picks Mumu we autowin because he won't be able to keep up.

They pick jungle Amumu, I'm loling, but my team is... in distress. I calm them down and make them come invade jungle with me where we FB Mumu and give our Kennen his blue. I then killed big wolve, Wraith, Golem, and left a ward at red. Took my blue. I then camped top and mid while just hunting Mumu all game, ending with us winning at 16 minutes.

I say "remember when I said Mumu wasn't that good?" and whole team just lols and said this was a bad Amumu. Seriously, why do people think he is good in the first place? All he has is CC and tankiness if that. Can't lane, falls behind in new jungle, and even if you are competent enough to farm with him in new jungle he is stupidly Blue dependant until he has Philo plus; sure he has decent ganks, but he leaves his mid at a disadvantage and can't farm with Junglers like Shy/Skarner/Maokai/Udyr/LeeSin.

He's just... out classed and team reliant imo.
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
January 15 2012 01:14 GMT
#4229
why do you base your opinion on amumu by being able to counter jungle people who arent even lvl 30 yet?
petered
Profile Joined February 2010
United States1817 Posts
January 15 2012 01:21 GMT
#4230
Loci shen on dyrus' stream right now.

Yes I am a fan boy (of loci not dyrus).
This, my friends, is the power of the Shikyo Memorial for QQ therapy thread. We make the world a better place, one chainsaw massacre prevention at a time.
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
January 15 2012 01:22 GMT
#4231
On January 15 2012 10:09 iCanada wrote:
Why do low level players think Amumu is ridiculously strong? I duo queued a normal with a buddy who is only level 21.

I get captain, and didn't ban Mummy because he isn't ban worthy despite the cries of all four. Lock in Jungle Shy and instantly get yelled at for picking Shy instead of Mumu, and tell them all that if the other teams jungler picks Mumu we autowin because he won't be able to keep up.

They pick jungle Amumu, I'm loling, but my team is... in distress. I calm them down and make them come invade jungle with me where we FB Mumu and give our Kennen his blue. I then killed big wolve, Wraith, Golem, and left a ward at red. Took my blue. I then camped top and mid while just hunting Mumu all game, ending with us winning at 16 minutes.

I say "remember when I said Mumu wasn't that good?" and whole team just lols and said this was a bad Amumu. Seriously, why do people think he is good in the first place? All he has is CC and tankiness if that. Can't lane, falls behind in new jungle, and even if you are competent enough to farm with him in new jungle he is stupidly Blue dependant until he has Philo plus; sure he has decent ganks, but he leaves his mid at a disadvantage and can't farm with Junglers like Shy/Skarner/Maokai/Udyr/LeeSin.

He's just... out classed and team reliant imo.


I asked after being like WTF when he was 1st ban in 5 games in a row on a smurf, and they are all just afraid of his ult.

Which makes no sense really as plenty of champs have ults just as crazy in teamfights and kennen etc. are never banned.

Its also funny because every time I see Amumu played at like 1200ELO they miss every toss and are completely worthless.
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17250 Posts
January 15 2012 01:33 GMT
#4232
Amumu is basically the only champ that's ALWAYS been banned by low Elo.
twitch.tv/cratonz
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-15 01:52:26
January 15 2012 01:39 GMT
#4233
On January 15 2012 10:22 sob3k wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 10:09 iCanada wrote:
Why do low level players think Amumu is ridiculously strong? I duo queued a normal with a buddy who is only level 21.

I get captain, and didn't ban Mummy because he isn't ban worthy despite the cries of all four. Lock in Jungle Shy and instantly get yelled at for picking Shy instead of Mumu, and tell them all that if the other teams jungler picks Mumu we autowin because he won't be able to keep up.

They pick jungle Amumu, I'm loling, but my team is... in distress. I calm them down and make them come invade jungle with me where we FB Mumu and give our Kennen his blue. I then killed big wolve, Wraith, Golem, and left a ward at red. Took my blue. I then camped top and mid while just hunting Mumu all game, ending with us winning at 16 minutes.

I say "remember when I said Mumu wasn't that good?" and whole team just lols and said this was a bad Amumu. Seriously, why do people think he is good in the first place? All he has is CC and tankiness if that. Can't lane, falls behind in new jungle, and even if you are competent enough to farm with him in new jungle he is stupidly Blue dependant until he has Philo plus; sure he has decent ganks, but he leaves his mid at a disadvantage and can't farm with Junglers like Shy/Skarner/Maokai/Udyr/LeeSin.

He's just... out classed and team reliant imo.


I asked after being like WTF when he was 1st ban in 5 games in a row on a smurf, and they are all just afraid of his ult.

Which makes no sense really as plenty of champs have ults just as crazy in teamfights and kennen etc. are never banned.

Its also funny because every time I see Amumu played at like 1200ELO they miss every toss and are completely worthless.


I know, I don't really understand... He a hard champion to play right yet low skill level players think he is god. Thats so backwards it is ridiculous.

Hell, even his ulti isn't that great unless you are on a really coordinated team. I'd much rather have like... half the ultis in the game in a team fight than than Curse of the Sad Mummy. Idk man.

On January 15 2012 10:14 turdburgler wrote:
why do you base your opinion on amumu by being able to counter jungle people who arent even lvl 30 yet?


That isn't what I base my opinion of Amumu on. I don't think he is that good in any players hands compared to other champs in the pool, thing is that low levels players have him on a god tier all by himself for some odd reason.

Hell, even at high ELO's I don't think Amumu can counter jungle or even respond to counter jungling anywhere near many many other champs in the pool. How does an Amumu bounce back to losing a blue buff? Does he just not farm? Does he try and pull half his team to steal my blue buff? Or does he just roll over and get wrecked?

Put Skarner/Shyvana in the same situation, they just out farm you anyway. Shaco/Maokai can gank ridiculously well even if they are underfarmed/leveled.
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
January 15 2012 01:53 GMT
#4234
low level players will always hold stupid opinions, its one of the reasons they are bad. the question is why you reinforce your argument by clarifying that it was against bad people then use it to make judgements on amumu : D a lot of people agree that amumu is trash because he can be counter jungled so easily, but i like him. late game he is a real strong tank. and since rammus is on 100% ban in ranked i like amumu as a second choice
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
January 15 2012 01:58 GMT
#4235
Mummy and pretty much every other tank-like tanky dps is op in low elo because they cant farm. Its REALLY hard to kill someone like amumu or shen if you dont farm, especially when you consider that they are made to lock you down. So you end up with the 4 underfed morons on your team killing all 5 of the underfed morons on their team with a head start.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
January 15 2012 01:58 GMT
#4236
On January 15 2012 10:53 turdburgler wrote:
low level players will always hold stupid opinions, its one of the reasons they are bad. the question is why you reinforce your argument by clarifying that it was against bad people then use it to make judgements on amumu : D a lot of people agree that amumu is trash because he can be counter jungled so easily, but i like him. late game he is a real strong tank. and since rammus is on 100% ban in ranked i like amumu as a second choice


Haha, I guess this is a solid point. Chances are I would have had 20 kills regardless of who I or anyone else picked.

/shrug

I do think that any decent Jungler will be able to counter jungle, and just having "don't let it happen" as the only plan isn't that smart. Its kind of like 9 pooling every game in hopes you get up the ramp. "Damn I hope he doesn't do this strategy that is really good against me..." *Crosses Fingers*
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
January 15 2012 02:03 GMT
#4237
but its a relative scale, i dont think anyone can counter jungle lee sin, assuming equal or 0 team help because he just wrecks at low levels, does that mean that noone can counter jungle except lee sin? nope. amumu may or may not be at the bottom of the ladder but hes not the only hero you will play who suffers from being counter jungled.
Hidden_MotiveS
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada2562 Posts
January 15 2012 02:06 GMT
#4238
I just tried the 200 cs by 20 minute test. I only got 145. Well I got 146 when I checked at 20:01. I fail at CSing. Stupid ping.
NotSorry
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States6722 Posts
January 15 2012 02:09 GMT
#4239
can do the 200 by 20 vs bots but never vs real people generally more around 150 at 20mins
We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. - Orwell
RogerX
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
New Zealand3180 Posts
January 15 2012 02:14 GMT
#4240
The world of ELO is a strange one indeed.

Im kinda curious as to why Galio isn't picked at that ELO.
Is it because of skillshots? Is it because no one gets Galio for some reason ? (The price is probably the factor) Idk and frankly they can own with amumu with dat ult apparantly.
Stick it up. take it up. step aside and see the world
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