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[Patch 1.0.0.131: Viktor] General Discussion - Page 173
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
Chauster is spectating, so probably streaming obs POV. TSM will stream from their own POV. | ||
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CeriseCherries
6170 Posts
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On January 12 2012 11:05 Promises wrote: Ryze I certainly agree on, Xerath I'm not sure why he would hold an especially large edge over Viktor (ie more then on other AP's). Still, why that would mean Viktor would be a bad midlaner I'm not sure about ^^ I don't think Viktor is a poor mid laner at all, and I think the guys that were talking about Viktor on SotL are so full of shit. HSGG was the only one who stood up for Viktor at all by saying his ult is beast, which it absolutely is, but he said everything else is bad. I find Viktor extremely powerful so far. | ||
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
On January 12 2012 10:55 Promises wrote: Seriously tho, I can see why Viktor isn't the best late game or perhaps against ganks, but why exactly would he be bad in lane? There hasn't been a single match-up I felt disadvantaged at with Viktor so far, the closest i've come to that have been Ahri post 6 and Gragas post 6. I haven't played against a Kassa mid yet (I think it's the only AP i've not yet played) but against all the other ones Viktor has at least a good shot. Q is a viable harass and the shield blocking minion fire helps out, and E is just insane if you get the hang of aiming it properly. My problem with Viktor is the fact Q+W have garbage range. So many mids outrange him. Cassio Brand are 2 mids that should destroy him. I could see Annie stomping him too. Missile speed on Q is far too slow. By the time it gets back to you, enemy mid will be able to damage you. E is a great harass tool, but the problem is its CD in addition to the mana cost. Ult is insane. If you ever do stun someone in W, gg to them. You will absolutely kill anyone if you can unload R+E+Q and chase them with the ult. His passive is a nice idea, but it really hurts him. I don't think the rewards outweigh anything like a second deathcap or VS. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
their lack of tyleresque players hurts that show so bad. people say dumb shit and no one calls them on it | ||
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Nehsb
United States380 Posts
On January 12 2012 11:09 jcarlsoniv wrote: I don't think Viktor is a poor mid laner at all, and I think the guys that were talking about Viktor on SotL are so full of shit. HSGG was the only one who stood up for Viktor at all by saying his ult is beast, which it absolutely is, but he said everything else is bad. I find Viktor extremely powerful so far. What does viktor do better than other aps? The only answer I've found to this question is that his zone control with his w and his ult can be pretty good. His damage doesn't seem to be ridiculously high with only 3 damage spells, one of which is DoT and q and e have low scaling and medium cooldowns. His utility (though maybe it's just that the viktors I've seen don't know how to use their w) doesn't seem that great to me. Ult is only a 0.5 sec silence. And his survivability doesn't seem great to me either with only 600 range on q. I don't know if he's necessarily bad, but what does he do better than most aps? | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21248 Posts
On January 12 2012 11:19 Nehsb wrote: What does viktor do better than other aps? The only answer I've found to this question is that his zone control with his w and his ult can be pretty good. His damage doesn't seem to be ridiculously high with only 3 damage spells, one of which is DoT and q and e have low scaling and medium cooldowns. His utility (though maybe it's just that the viktors I've seen don't know how to use their w) doesn't seem that great to me. Ult is only a 0.5 sec silence. And his survivability doesn't seem great to me either with only 600 range on q. I don't know if he's necessarily bad, but what does he do better than most aps? Pretty much this. He's not bad certainly. He's just...not good :3 Fun though. | ||
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57 Corvette
Canada5941 Posts
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On January 12 2012 11:02 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Ryze and Xerath very good vs. Viktor. Ryze/Xerath are not that strong vs Viktor. Ryze gets outranged pretty hard with lazor, and when he gets close enough to root he gets hit with Q which then gives viktor the little shield, its a fine match for Viktor. Xerath is harder because you cant get near enough to ever use Q/W without getting fullcomboed and losing the trade badly, but you can keep up in lane with lazor farming and having the same super range as xerath most of the time. Xerath's Q/W also have a nice long windup that allows you to easily land lazor when he cast one if you are fast, and if xerath starts using his ult from less than max siege range (which if you play xerath happens fairly often), you can ult and silence him which can ruin his day. Still a hard matchup but its pretty doable. The nice thing about Viktor is that its basically impossible to zone him or harass if he plays defensively, lazor wipes entire wave from so far back you are basically camping at tier 2 tower while still getting all the CS. And you cant dive him for risk of silence/StunwallW/and shield. BTW he does lose pretty hard to kassadin just like everyone else. And this is mostly based on Augment Death, which is by far the best for mid in nearly all cases. EDIT: I was just looking at the stats and Ryze should be able to trade with root while staying 25 out of range of Q, I've played vs 3 Ryzes and been able to hit them pretty well, but maybe they just sucked. Still the biggest thing is E outranging you so bad. | ||
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Perplex
United States1693 Posts
On January 12 2012 11:26 57 Corvette wrote: Does Nidalee who goes ninja tabi > Triforce counter wukong top? might need wriggles in there somewhere but yeah.. AD nidalee can win or go even in pretty much every top lane matchup if played properly. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On January 12 2012 11:19 Nehsb wrote: What does viktor do better than other aps? The only answer I've found to this question is that his zone control with his w and his ult can be pretty good. His damage doesn't seem to be ridiculously high with only 3 damage spells, one of which is DoT and q and e have low scaling and medium cooldowns. His utility (though maybe it's just that the viktors I've seen don't know how to use their w) doesn't seem that great to me. Ult is only a 0.5 sec silence. And his survivability doesn't seem great to me either with only 600 range on q. I don't know if he's necessarily bad, but what does he do better than most aps? I'm still learning him. The utility on his W is huge. It's a huge anti-initiation tool, as well as a good team splitting tool. If you can drop it in the middle of a team fight, they either get away from it or they get stunned. This draws their focus away from the fight in a way that a simple stun doesn't do, imo. If you think the laser poke doesn't do a lot of damage, you're dead wrong. It hits freaking hard, in a line nuke, and has a moderate cool down. His Q is relatively weak, and is easily my least favorite move of his, but it's not terrible. His ult is the cream of the crop. HUGE freaking burst, a silence on impact, and then chasing power. If the AD carry wants to sit under it, then fine, he takes a shit ton of damage. If he wants to get away from that, then, again, he has to draw his focus away from killing people and instead work on avoiding the storm over his head. I actually like his passive. The augment is a strong, cost efficient mid game item. It does hurt him a bit very very late game (full build), but that's also the point in time when ADs are going to surpass mages in scaling. Is Viktor top tier? I'm not sure yet. Is he nearly as bad as the vast majority of people think he is? Not by a freaking long shot. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
I agree that there's nothing he's best at tho: outclassed at farming, outclassed at range by Xerath, as solotop by Ryze/Swain, as sustained dps by Ryze/Cass/etc., as bursty mage by... well, let's say Annie for example. He does a lot of stuff, he's very versatile, but at the cost of not being outstanding anywhere (except perhaps at farming). Also, his tools are kinda expensive — rylai+wota makes him the kind of mobile character I like a lot during clean-up phases, where the range on E and the delay allow you to slow pursuers from out of their potentiel gap closers' range, but also allows you to catchup. When big bursts have been expended the spell vamp + shield on Q's actually decent, and the cooldown on his stun at high level allows it to be used several times during a chase. I use Augment:Death to make sure I'll OS the wave (I hit a lot, and I mean easily 4-5, timings if I rush rylai or other stuff while aiming for Gravity, where I E the wave to see every minion à 35 hp, bleh), but the range from Gravity allowing you to actually cut retreats, play in the jungle initiate on people I really miss. Also, can't play Panth on my smurf. So many retarded people, it doesn't matter if I crush that Riven when Talon bot is 10-0 and has got Phage+Bruta when I end the latter. Plus he doesn't actually fall off as hard as me. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On January 12 2012 11:37 Perplex wrote: might need wriggles in there somewhere but yeah.. AD nidalee can win or go even in pretty much every top lane matchup if played properly. I'm having some trouble understanding AD nidalee. Why exactly is it good? She only has like one skill that scales with AD. | ||
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Chiharu Harukaze
12112 Posts
'Sup? | ||
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
On January 12 2012 11:56 koreasilver wrote: I'm having some trouble understanding AD nidalee. Why exactly is it good? She only has like one skill that scales with AD. I've always wondered this myself. From what I've gathered, her heal helps extremely well since it gives bonus att speed for a few seconds. People also seem to build her as an AD bruiser, as opposed to the old build her AP and squishy as hell. Her change to cougar form also played a part in this shift in her style of play. 10 armor+mr instead of 10(15?)% chance to dodge attacks. | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On January 12 2012 11:56 koreasilver wrote: I'm having some trouble understanding AD nidalee. Why exactly is it good? She only has like one skill that scales with AD. Nidalee is Nidalee. You have great map awareness (traps) and mobility (passive). E in Human Form is great for taking down towers. Q in Cougar is your main execution skill. You sustain damage more than AP Nid (which is burst), less heal (but Wriggle's solves), weaker Spear pokes/stronger Human autos.. | ||
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57 Corvette
Canada5941 Posts
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On January 12 2012 12:01 57 Corvette wrote: Ugh, only Phreak would jungle Jax. so it seems they completely removed the ap/ad into health looks like another atmogs champ to me tbh. | ||
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BlackMagister
United States5834 Posts
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Niton
United States2395 Posts
On January 12 2012 12:01 57 Corvette wrote: Ugh, only Phreak would jungle Jax. Jax's new E is guaranteed damage that buffs up the more he's hit during the dodge period. Doesn't that sound like something that would be good in a situation where you're guaranteed to get hit 6+ times? | ||
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