EPT[Patch 1.0.0.131: Viktor] General Discussion - Page 164
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ihasaKAROT
Netherlands4730 Posts
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
On January 11 2012 22:24 fuzzbox wrote: What about going Trinity on Urgot? Does his Q proc sheen? Nope. | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
bot lane urgot doesn't need manamune or bruta (it's 100% core on solo urgot, but you can pretty handily get away without it in bot lane), i've played games where i've gone dblades -> bloodthirster -> lw and haven't been so mana starved that i necessarily needed tear. also the need for defensive items is purely up to a player's playstyle. He functions all-right when you build him as a glass cannon, his ult is really strong in defensive contexts, and he has really high effective range with grenade + q's, so the need for defensive items is purely up to how the player wants to play him. Like i said, his late game weakness comes down to the fact that his primary damage comes from a skill that doesn't crit and isn't affected by attackspeed, so there's no scaling except for flat AD and cdr, which makes him have a power-curve that looks like an AP caster. I think the biggest hit to urgot, however, has been the recent shift to support + ad bot lane. It's been the primary reason i basically stopped playing him. He still fucks shit up in solo lanes, but doesn't have quite as many obviously favorable 2v2 matchups, tho i'm pretty convinced that he has several good matchups, but i haven't really explored them since i haven't played him so much recently. edit: also the stuff about trinity reminded me that he also has some issues taking towers, due to his low auto range compounded with a lack of mobility ability (i.e. tumble, essence flux or valkyrie on similarly ranged champions), and some of that could be mitigated with trinity, since you can just shoot one auto at a tower at a time and still do decent dmg to it and not really have to put yourself in as much danger. It's one of the more convincing arguments that led me to end up trying trinity, tho i still didnt like it  | ||
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FR4CT4L
Australia697 Posts
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On January 11 2012 22:44 FR4CT4L wrote: Question, what are good champs to run solo top against tryndamere? teemo | ||
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ihasaKAROT
Netherlands4730 Posts
On January 11 2012 22:44 FR4CT4L wrote: Question, what are good champs to run solo top against tryndamere? Teemo and pretty much any AP with a kite/stun. Love swain vs Trynda | ||
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
On January 11 2012 22:43 barbsq wrote: Urgot is incredibly strong in lane and during the midgame. His lategame problems occur because his q overrides his autoattack, so instead of being a damage source that complements autos, it becomes one that replaces them, and since q's dont crit, it lacks multiplicative scaling. Not to mention it is not affected by attackspeed, further compounding his lack of 'multiplicativity'. It's a sort of an ezreal problem, but exacerbated to an extreme. bot lane urgot doesn't need manamune or bruta (it's 100% core on solo urgot, but you can pretty handily get away without it in bot lane), i've played games where i've gone dblades -> bloodthirster -> lw and haven't been so mana starved that i necessarily needed tear. also the need for defensive items is purely up to a player's playstyle. He functions all-right when you build him as a glass cannon, his ult is really strong in defensive contexts, and he has really high effective range with grenade + q's, so the need for defensive items is purely up to how the player wants to play him. Like i said, his late game weakness comes down to the fact that his primary damage comes from a skill that doesn't crit and isn't affected by attackspeed, so there's no scaling except for flat AD and cdr, which makes him have a power-curve that looks like an AP caster. I think the biggest hit to urgot, however, has been the recent shift to support + ad bot lane. It's been the primary reason i basically stopped playing him. He still fucks shit up in solo lanes, but doesn't have quite as many obviously favorable 2v2 matchups, tho i'm pretty convinced that he has several good matchups, but i haven't really explored them since i haven't played him so much recently. I can't think of a reliable pick strategy that could make Urgot viable in botlane. With a tendency to pick supports last, there's literally no way you could stop a Soraka counterpick. Like I said before, Soraka completely wrecks him because Urgot totally relies on that 100% armor penetration for his early game damage. Picking Soraka makes a sub-optimal lane imo (however, it should be explored maybe with offensive Soraka builds revisited) and banning her makes a physical caster pick blatantly obvious. Your best bet may be creating ambiguity by picking a ranged DPS that can solo and picking Urgot last, but I dunno, even if you take Soraka out of the equation there's still Taric with free armor and shielding supports. | ||
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RogerX
New Zealand3180 Posts
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
Also he doesn't rely on armor penetration that much, he has really high base damages on q, and his armor reduction is % based, so it's not actually doing that much in the early game beyond what your flat pen is doing. | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
On January 11 2012 22:56 RogerX wrote: I actually did baller well with Nasus against tryndamere. You played a really, really bad Tryn then. | ||
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RogerX
New Zealand3180 Posts
On January 11 2012 23:12 zer0das wrote: You played a really, really bad Tryn then. Probably, I actually just tower hugged and got quite a lot of CS with my Q. Trynd kept pushing so it was pretty easy, he also tried diving with Riven, use R and W and I pretty much survived it all while killing away Trynd from carelessness. | ||
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rwrzr
United States1980 Posts
On January 11 2012 23:18 RogerX wrote: Probably, I actually just tower hugged and got quite a lot of CS with my Q. Trynd kept pushing so it was pretty easy, he also tried diving with Riven, use R and W and I pretty much survived it all while killing away Trynd from carelessness. Bad Tyrnd x2 | ||
Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Edit: how viable are attack speed marks on champs with steroids/armor shreds like Vayne, Corki, Jarvan or Wukong? | ||
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triangle
United States3803 Posts
On January 11 2012 22:44 FR4CT4L wrote: Question, what are good champs to run solo top against tryndamere? Try Malphite. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
That said, I think this new jungle both opens up new junglers to see play (seeing troll picks like Malphite or Singed chosen pretty often seriously), but also makes the best junglers (Skarner, Udyr, Shaco, Lee Sin) so much better that it's almost terrible not to pick them. Any jungler who falls under the niche of "can AoE clear fast and gank unsuspecting lanes" immediately became the best in the game, almost ban status for some players. Not that I mind (I jungle Skarner, Udyr, and Riven), but I just thought I'd give my $0.02 | ||
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mordek
United States12704 Posts
Also, I'm interested, is Malphite a good pick top vs. Trynd? | ||
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luckybeni2
Germany1065 Posts
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On January 12 2012 00:14 mordek wrote: Malphite is a decent jungler... Singed I've seen rarely but I've seen Snoopeh and Dan Dinh pick Malphite intentionally (in solo q however). Also, I'm interested, is Malphite a good pick top vs. Trynd? i would imagine so. On paper it seems like he would be, trynd does dmg primarily by autoattack, malph has attackspeed reduction and is pretty good at fighting melee champions in general (see pantheon). Malph can also just build randuins + frozen heart and just be a massive asshole to trynd all game. | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
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