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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
On January 09 2012 05:25 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2012 04:55 Brees wrote:On January 09 2012 04:49 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:On January 09 2012 04:35 Alzadar wrote:On January 09 2012 04:30 Brees wrote:On January 09 2012 04:27 Kaniol wrote:On January 09 2012 04:24 Alzadar wrote:On January 09 2012 04:18 Brees wrote:
stop feedin the troll, the tried and true kat build will always be sorc/rylai's/gunblade. after that is situational but GA is pretty good. Do you have anything to back that up? He linked to a very good Katarina player saying Rylai's is trash on her. He didn't say that Rylai is a trash item, he said that it is a very situational item on her... sure, he doesnt take into account the interaction between W + E and flat hp. it is a reduced percentage like gragas which makes flat hp actually really good on katarina for when you go in. I also play her top where as he plays her mid so the builds are obviously going to be different. He goes for full burst on squishy mages while im trying to do sustain harass and have a CC for when ganks come. Your logic is faulty, damage reducers have equal synergy with resistances as they do health, since they only take into account your effective health, which is health*(1+resists/100). I could be wrong, but I think you misunderstand what he was saying. I think he's treating spellvampable life as bonus life; kind of like a giant's belt. There was nothing about damage reduction. Effective health scales multiplicatively with health and resists so when you can leech health, you don't need as much health items. nope im simply implying that damage reducers have much better synergy with hp then resistances because resistances only take into account 1 type of damage or the other, while HP nullifies both. then your still wrong. you have some build whether its health or armor or mr or whatever you have 20% dmg reduction is 20%, end of story. if you are finding that you are building mr and getting killed by garen, thats in no way related. what your stating is, i dislike armor because of magic dmg, so i get health to be safe against both, and therefore %reduce is good with health. its like me saying i like fruits but not vegetables, so im gonna go for a walk. is the walk good for me? yes. is it in anyway related to fruit vs vegetables? no.
alright you buy a chain main and negatron over the giants belt thats buildable into rylai's on kat and tell me how you do , l0l
dem low elos goin nuts
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On January 09 2012 06:01 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2012 05:51 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Catalyst is also the best lane sustain item in the game? don't forget that small detail. For a Catalyst to heal up more HP than Philo + Regrowth (~100 gold cheaper), you need to level once every 38 seconds. Which is almost once per wave. Not going to happen. You need more than 1 wave for lvl 2 even, right? When you finally can afford Cata, it'll take much longer. Cata doesn't actually proide as much sustain as people seem to think. Obviously Cata actually builds into something useful, and also provides flat stats, but the pure sustain on it isn't spectacular.
Are you counting in the effect strenght of spirit has?
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United States47024 Posts
On January 09 2012 06:10 Brees wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2012 05:25 turdburgler wrote:On January 09 2012 04:55 Brees wrote:On January 09 2012 04:49 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:On January 09 2012 04:35 Alzadar wrote:On January 09 2012 04:30 Brees wrote:On January 09 2012 04:27 Kaniol wrote:On January 09 2012 04:24 Alzadar wrote:On January 09 2012 04:18 Brees wrote:
stop feedin the troll, the tried and true kat build will always be sorc/rylai's/gunblade. after that is situational but GA is pretty good. Do you have anything to back that up? He linked to a very good Katarina player saying Rylai's is trash on her. He didn't say that Rylai is a trash item, he said that it is a very situational item on her... sure, he doesnt take into account the interaction between W + E and flat hp. it is a reduced percentage like gragas which makes flat hp actually really good on katarina for when you go in. I also play her top where as he plays her mid so the builds are obviously going to be different. He goes for full burst on squishy mages while im trying to do sustain harass and have a CC for when ganks come. Your logic is faulty, damage reducers have equal synergy with resistances as they do health, since they only take into account your effective health, which is health*(1+resists/100). I could be wrong, but I think you misunderstand what he was saying. I think he's treating spellvampable life as bonus life; kind of like a giant's belt. There was nothing about damage reduction. Effective health scales multiplicatively with health and resists so when you can leech health, you don't need as much health items. nope im simply implying that damage reducers have much better synergy with hp then resistances because resistances only take into account 1 type of damage or the other, while HP nullifies both. then your still wrong. you have some build whether its health or armor or mr or whatever you have 20% dmg reduction is 20%, end of story. if you are finding that you are building mr and getting killed by garen, thats in no way related. what your stating is, i dislike armor because of magic dmg, so i get health to be safe against both, and therefore %reduce is good with health. its like me saying i like fruits but not vegetables, so im gonna go for a walk. is the walk good for me? yes. is it in anyway related to fruit vs vegetables? no. alright you buy a chain main and negatron over the giants belt thats buildable into rylai's on kat and tell me how you do , l0l dem low elos goin nuts
Brees, while your conclusion is correct, your reasoning is completely wrong.
There is no synergy between % damage reducers and flat HP, not any more so than resists. Multiplicative damage reductions are the same regardless of the applied order, so having an extra one doesn't affect the tradeoff between existing ones.
The reason HP is the best defensive stat for Kat is the same as for any other squishy--at low-mid level baseline HP/armor values, the EHP/gold comparison heavily favors buying HP--particularly with many people entering games with runed armor/mr.
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On January 09 2012 04:40 Haasts wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2012 03:24 r.Evo wrote:
Rather let top/jungle build starks instead of wits end and be done with it for major midgame fights (also those people are always in the middle so you get the full benefit from the armor reduction) than having your support struggle with getting it at 45 minutes, if at all.
People like Irelia, Udyr, Skarner, Gangplank, Cho and most likely more can all fit a starks in rather well imo.
I'd never considered replacing Rageblade/Wit's End with Starks on Skarner, but I'm willing to give it a go - anyone tried this with jungle Skarner/Udyr, assuming you've got an AD bruiser toplane?
I used to love Rageblade on Skarner, but nowadays I'm kinda torn between it and Wits End. I feel Rageblade is stronger when ahead and Wits End is more consistent/solid, but dno... I have a tendency to grab a rageblade if I'm fat way before teamfights but then it usually doesn't matter a lot anyway.
The games where I went for Starks so far where games on mostly Udyr/Skarner where my build was like Philo, HoG, Recurve, Aegis, and then either Kindlegem, Negatron, Chainmail or finish Starks. Unless there's loads of kills on both sides I usually just don't have the gold for building Starks without getting blown up too quickly.
But to be completely honest I end up building Wits End most of the time because I'll forget that I wanted Starks in the first place -.-v
Also I think it's most beast with like GP, Irelia, Cho and similar fuckers toplane. No reason to get it when you have like a Riven top e.g.
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On January 09 2012 06:22 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2012 06:01 spinesheath wrote:On January 09 2012 05:51 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Catalyst is also the best lane sustain item in the game? don't forget that small detail. For a Catalyst to heal up more HP than Philo + Regrowth (~100 gold cheaper), you need to level once every 38 seconds. Which is almost once per wave. Not going to happen. You need more than 1 wave for lvl 2 even, right? When you finally can afford Cata, it'll take much longer. Cata doesn't actually proide as much sustain as people seem to think. Obviously Cata actually builds into something useful, and also provides flat stats, but the pure sustain on it isn't spectacular. Are you counting in the effect strenght of spirit has?
You run 21 Utility on Singed? He seems much more suited to 21 defence.
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On January 09 2012 06:22 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2012 06:01 spinesheath wrote:On January 09 2012 05:51 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Catalyst is also the best lane sustain item in the game? don't forget that small detail. For a Catalyst to heal up more HP than Philo + Regrowth (~100 gold cheaper), you need to level once every 38 seconds. Which is almost once per wave. Not going to happen. You need more than 1 wave for lvl 2 even, right? When you finally can afford Cata, it'll take much longer. Cata doesn't actually proide as much sustain as people seem to think. Obviously Cata actually builds into something useful, and also provides flat stats, but the pure sustain on it isn't spectacular. Are you counting in the effect strenght of spirit has?
Are you saying people actually use the utility tree?
Ninjaed ^_^
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On January 09 2012 06:22 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2012 06:01 spinesheath wrote:On January 09 2012 05:51 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Catalyst is also the best lane sustain item in the game? don't forget that small detail. For a Catalyst to heal up more HP than Philo + Regrowth (~100 gold cheaper), you need to level once every 38 seconds. Which is almost once per wave. Not going to happen. You need more than 1 wave for lvl 2 even, right? When you finally can afford Cata, it'll take much longer. Cata doesn't actually proide as much sustain as people seem to think. Obviously Cata actually builds into something useful, and also provides flat stats, but the pure sustain on it isn't spectacular. Are you counting in the effect strenght of spirit has?
Troll much?
Last time I checked, SoS was deep down into the utility tree. Which nobody takes. Well actually I hear that there still are tons of people going 9/0/21 on casters on EU, but I can't believe it...
In any case: 3/3 SoS on Cata = 2 HP5. Philo + Regrowth = 33 HP5. So if we assume 31 HP5 to account for SoS on Cata, that brings us to ~40 sec per level. Duh.
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Right, having played Viktor for a bunch of days now, my findings are this: I didn't feel particularly countered by any mid. The only one I havent played against (from the AP's) is Cassio, which might be hard altho I reckon she should be doable aswell. The ones I had most problems with were Kennen and Gragas. The thing that countered me the most by far was jungle Rammus. Now I have to say I have this problem with most AP's, but I have no clue what to do against him. The only way I seemed to be able to live was just double ward both sides, and outwork my mid opponent, but otherwise basically if you step away form your turret your dead if he comes to gank, which is fucking ridiculous. As builds go, I felt so far that death really was the best option, since your lazer is your main form of damage and the other passives are kinda meh, apart from that boots+pots-->doubledorans--->rylais into whatever the game calls for seem to work best. If you play with him a bit, the laser will get more and more succes, as you'll correctly predict dodges and land it etc.
tl:dr
*Good matchups mid
 eath Augment the best
*Jungle Rammus OP (and that's something I very rarely say ^^)
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As a player who plays a jungler half of the games, I gotta say: It doesnt really matter what jungler I pick, Im always happy to see Viktor in the other team. If hes standing in the middle of his lane just once, hes basically dead. Hes incredibly easy to gank. And in all games which included a Viktor i always was miserable when he was in my team. And happy when he was in the other. This Champ is just terrible or people just havent found out yet how to play him, what i doubt.
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Because any other champ magically escapes from a good jungle gank if he's in the middle of his lane? Viktor isn't the only champ without a gap closer, but he does have a stun to get away.
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I think gamewise I'm roughly 25-4 with him, with an average score of 15-5-10 or something similar. He's far from a horrible champ and I fail to see how he'd be any easyer to gank then say Malzahar/Annie/Brand. Its basically just Twitch and Rammus I have trouble with =)
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On January 09 2012 06:25 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2012 06:10 Brees wrote:On January 09 2012 05:25 turdburgler wrote:On January 09 2012 04:55 Brees wrote:On January 09 2012 04:49 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:On January 09 2012 04:35 Alzadar wrote:On January 09 2012 04:30 Brees wrote:On January 09 2012 04:27 Kaniol wrote:On January 09 2012 04:24 Alzadar wrote:On January 09 2012 04:18 Brees wrote:
stop feedin the troll, the tried and true kat build will always be sorc/rylai's/gunblade. after that is situational but GA is pretty good. Do you have anything to back that up? He linked to a very good Katarina player saying Rylai's is trash on her. He didn't say that Rylai is a trash item, he said that it is a very situational item on her... sure, he doesnt take into account the interaction between W + E and flat hp. it is a reduced percentage like gragas which makes flat hp actually really good on katarina for when you go in. I also play her top where as he plays her mid so the builds are obviously going to be different. He goes for full burst on squishy mages while im trying to do sustain harass and have a CC for when ganks come. Your logic is faulty, damage reducers have equal synergy with resistances as they do health, since they only take into account your effective health, which is health*(1+resists/100). I could be wrong, but I think you misunderstand what he was saying. I think he's treating spellvampable life as bonus life; kind of like a giant's belt. There was nothing about damage reduction. Effective health scales multiplicatively with health and resists so when you can leech health, you don't need as much health items. nope im simply implying that damage reducers have much better synergy with hp then resistances because resistances only take into account 1 type of damage or the other, while HP nullifies both. then your still wrong. you have some build whether its health or armor or mr or whatever you have 20% dmg reduction is 20%, end of story. if you are finding that you are building mr and getting killed by garen, thats in no way related. what your stating is, i dislike armor because of magic dmg, so i get health to be safe against both, and therefore %reduce is good with health. its like me saying i like fruits but not vegetables, so im gonna go for a walk. is the walk good for me? yes. is it in anyway related to fruit vs vegetables? no. alright you buy a chain main and negatron over the giants belt thats buildable into rylai's on kat and tell me how you do , l0l dem low elos goin nuts Brees, while your conclusion is correct, your reasoning is completely wrong. There is no synergy between % damage reducers and flat HP, not any more so than resists. Multiplicative damage reductions are the same regardless of the applied order, so having an extra one doesn't affect the tradeoff between existing ones. The reason HP is the best defensive stat for Kat is the same as for any other squishy--at low-mid level baseline HP/armor values, the EHP/gold comparison heavily favors buying HP--particularly with many people entering games with runed armor/mr.
"Heavily favors" isn't really true, with no other defensive items you will get slightly more mileage out of extra health (about 3700 EHP vs 3500), but if you take into account spellvamped health (I'm not sure, does she get full vamp from her ult and BB?), resists are better.
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France45622 Posts
It's because people prob use his stun wrong. I got gank by a Rammus who just powerballed through my stun before it proc'd (it was still level 1 at that moment) and hit me. Next gank I drop it near us then I run right through it, circling slightly to avoid Rammus, and that time I ensured he got stunned, allowing me to reach turret.
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On January 09 2012 07:18 Banishment wrote:
As a player who plays a jungler half of the games, I gotta say: It doesnt really matter what jungler I pick, Im always happy to see Viktor in the other team. If hes standing in the middle of his lane just once, hes basically dead. Hes incredibly easy to gank. And in all games which included a Viktor i always was miserable when he was in my team. And happy when he was in the other. This Champ is just terrible or people just havent found out yet how to play him, what i doubt.
I hope people continue to have this point of view, so that I can continue to destroy unsuspecting players with him.
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In my work of finding a reliable source of CDR on Morde, I tried a Bruta build on him lately... It works quite well in fact, since he is supposed to auto attack quite a few between his spells and even has to land one for his Q...
What do you think ? It's really hard to itemize CDR on manaless AP chars @_@
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On January 09 2012 08:30 mr_tolkien wrote:
In my work of finding a reliable source of CDR on Morde, I tried a Bruta build on him lately... It works quite well in fact, since he is supposed to auto attack quite a few between his spells and even has to land one for his Q...
What do you think ? It's really hard to itemize CDR on manaless AP chars @_@
His Q does magic damage, just demand blue buff and get a bluepot. Or Boots/DFG, should put you on 30%.
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DFG, Ionian boots, spirit visage, blue pot
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dfg is such a boss item, the tiny investment in it into mana regen doesnt really matter.
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On January 09 2012 06:10 Brees wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2012 05:25 turdburgler wrote:On January 09 2012 04:55 Brees wrote:On January 09 2012 04:49 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:On January 09 2012 04:35 Alzadar wrote:On January 09 2012 04:30 Brees wrote:On January 09 2012 04:27 Kaniol wrote:On January 09 2012 04:24 Alzadar wrote:On January 09 2012 04:18 Brees wrote:
stop feedin the troll, the tried and true kat build will always be sorc/rylai's/gunblade. after that is situational but GA is pretty good. Do you have anything to back that up? He linked to a very good Katarina player saying Rylai's is trash on her. He didn't say that Rylai is a trash item, he said that it is a very situational item on her... sure, he doesnt take into account the interaction between W + E and flat hp. it is a reduced percentage like gragas which makes flat hp actually really good on katarina for when you go in. I also play her top where as he plays her mid so the builds are obviously going to be different. He goes for full burst on squishy mages while im trying to do sustain harass and have a CC for when ganks come. Your logic is faulty, damage reducers have equal synergy with resistances as they do health, since they only take into account your effective health, which is health*(1+resists/100). I could be wrong, but I think you misunderstand what he was saying. I think he's treating spellvampable life as bonus life; kind of like a giant's belt. There was nothing about damage reduction. Effective health scales multiplicatively with health and resists so when you can leech health, you don't need as much health items. nope im simply implying that damage reducers have much better synergy with hp then resistances because resistances only take into account 1 type of damage or the other, while HP nullifies both. then your still wrong. you have some build whether its health or armor or mr or whatever you have 20% dmg reduction is 20%, end of story. if you are finding that you are building mr and getting killed by garen, thats in no way related. what your stating is, i dislike armor because of magic dmg, so i get health to be safe against both, and therefore %reduce is good with health. its like me saying i like fruits but not vegetables, so im gonna go for a walk. is the walk good for me? yes. is it in anyway related to fruit vs vegetables? no. alright you buy a chain main and negatron over the giants belt thats buildable into rylai's on kat and tell me how you do , l0l dem low elos goin nuts
so because you assume the only time to zonyas is mid ult and because you dont want to buy some mr, your gonna say something stupid again? then qualify it with dem low elos goin nuts? with kat specifically rylais might be a strong item and it might be core and the mr and armor choices might be bad on her.
how is that related to hp vs resistances combined with flat dmg reduction? kat isnt the only char with it. once again your stating something then making a leap to something unrelated and basically finishing your argument with lolnub
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France45622 Posts
I hate dem 4-men premades. Cool stuff guys, you've got your vocal chat and all, but that should't distract you from, you know, speaking, sometimes. Communicating via keyboard. Not forget the fact that there's 5 people on the team. Even during champ select. Damn.
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EPT
