EPT[Patch 1.0.0.131: Viktor] General Discussion - Page 125
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novalight
United States20 Posts
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On January 09 2012 03:07 Shikyo wrote: I've said this many times even in this thread, the lazer has the bugs: 1. Sometimes deals no damage 2. The range is actually shorter than the animation and never hits at the start or end of the beam even if it clearly hits the enemy 3. The range is actually thinner than the animation or the targeting indicator and you will only hit with the very center 4. Sometimes it shoots the opposite direction for no reason akin to nidalee spear for instance. Ah, I haven't followed this thread perfectly, so I missed that. But yes, I have noticed all of these things. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On January 09 2012 03:09 topoulo wrote: Yea ok with 0 hps youll be focus down in a global. try standar rod of ages ( i know mana is usless but uber hp bonuses and 80 ability ) ,rylais then deathcap, this way ull get 1200 hp more + snare , which is crusial, even then get hourglass then deathcap. If not rylais , heart of gold ,hourglass , Gunblade is trash Really, Rod of Ages on a manaless champ? I better buy Rod of Ages on akali for that imba HP and AP. On January 09 2012 03:09 novalight wrote: starks really isn't 'costefficient on carries and fighters without the aura effect' at all. on an ad carry, starks doesn't have the stats to replace ANY core offensive item, is too expensive to build before buying defense, and is a waste of a slot in an endgame 6item build. toplane ad has a similar problem, with the additional issue of many top laners building as bruisers, in which case a starks would make no sense at all. the only role other than support that i would consider getting a starks on is jungler, and only then on very specific junglers/comps Starks is a great item on irelia(actually helps you in lane) and it could work as a late item on GP. I'm sure there are other top laners who can get away with buying a somewhat early starks. Only problem with getting an early starks on a nonsupport is, if you get it too early you'll lose out on damage. | ||
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topoulo
253 Posts
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topoulo
253 Posts
Really, Rod of Ages on a manaless champ? I better buy Rod of Ages on akali for that imba HP and AP. Depends if ur getting focused down , the xtra 600ish hp are usefull and the price is still good, rylais should be the first item u get. Also hourglass + ulti can be golden cause katarinas main problem is with 1 stun she dies and you dont wnat that , thats why its consider a trash champ overall and is never ben used in any serious tournaments. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
On January 09 2012 03:03 spinesheath wrote: The idea is that the carry can put that money towards other sources of DPS, while he gets the aura from someone else. If your ranged AD has IE LW PD then it'll be hard to find a better way to spend money on the support than Starks: The stats on it are greatly amplified on the ranged AD. Anything you buy that works just for yourself will not be amplified. I find starks on the support a stupid idea as well in an organized setting. Rather let top/jungle build it instead of wits end and be done with it for major midgame fights (also those people are always in the middle so you get the full benefit from the armor reduction) than having your support struggle with getting it at 45 minutes, if at all. People like Irelia, Udyr, Skarner, Gangplank, Cho and most likely more can all fit a starks in rather well imo. On January 09 2012 03:18 topoulo wrote: Depends if ur getting focused down , the xtra 600ish hp are usefull and the price is still good, rylais should be the first item u get. Also hourglass + ulti can be golden cause katarinas main problem is with 1 stun she dies and you dont wnat that , thats why its consider a trash champ overall and is never ben used in any serious tournaments. I have played kat like twice in my life, but... RoA is trash on manaless champs. If you need a source of HP and AP on any of those get Rylais. Next you're gonna suggest RoA on Kennen and then on Lee Sin, right? She is not a trash champ, just most people suck at playing her. If she'd be eve-level (aka trash) it would have been impossible for Scarra to play her on that level. The trick is knowing when to go in and when not. Also (I think I'm quoting redtooth here) she's not about her ult but about bouncing blade. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On January 09 2012 03:09 topoulo wrote: Yea ok with 0 hps youll be focus down in a global. try standar rod of ages ( i know mana is usless but uber hp bonuses and 80 ability ) ,rylais then deathcap, this way ull get 1200 hp more + snare , which is crusial, even then get hourglass then deathcap. If not rylais , heart of gold ,hourglass , Gunblade is trash I mained her for the majority of time I played this game. I still play her regularly. You, dear sir, have no clue on how to build her and your advice is terrible. I talked to scarra bout how to build her and he builds her the same way. If you get focussed in a global, you went in at the wrong time. Rylai's is horrible because you spend 3k gold on 80 AP and wonder why you deal no damage. Get a clue before posting advice. scarra discussing Kat builds. | ||
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Niton
United States2395 Posts
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On January 09 2012 03:18 topoulo wrote: Depends if ur getting focused down , the xtra 600ish hp are usefull and the price is still good, rylais should be the first item u get. Also hourglass + ulti can be golden cause katarinas main problem is with 1 stun she dies and you dont wnat that , thats why its consider a trash champ overall and is never ben used in any serious tournaments. Building a Rod of Ages on a manaless champion when you don't have Rylais is probably the stupidest thing you can do. Rylais costs 100 more gold and gives you the slow proc instead of catalyst and ~100 less hitpoints after 10 minutes. I'd also suggest that resists are far more effective than health since you're naturally going to be getting a lot of sustain from spell vamp. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On January 09 2012 03:24 r.Evo wrote: I find starks on the support a stupid idea as well in an organized setting. Rather let top/jungle build it instead of wits end and be done with it for major midgame fights (also those people are always in the middle so you get the full benefit from the armor reduction) than having your support struggle with getting it at 45 minutes, if at all. People like Irelia, Udyr, Skarner, Gangplank, Cho and most likely more can all fit a starks in rather well imo. I have played kat like twice in my life, but... RoA is trash on manaless champs. If you need a source of HP and AP on any of those get Rylais. Next you're gonna suggest RoA on Kennen and then on Lee Sin, right? She is not a trash champ, just most people suck at playing her. If she'd be eve-level (aka trash) it would have been impossible for Scarra to play her on that level. The trick is knowing when to go in and when not. Also (I think I'm quoting redtooth here) she's not about her ult but about bouncing blade. I agree completely. Her lane is very very strong imo, I haven't really lost any top lanes with her. In team fights it's all about skirting around the fight, and then ulting at the right time. | ||
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Hidden_MotiveS
Canada2562 Posts
On January 09 2012 03:18 topoulo wrote: Depends if ur getting focused down , the xtra 600ish hp are usefull and the price is still good, rylais should be the first item u get. Also hourglass + ulti can be golden cause katarinas main problem is with 1 stun she dies and you dont wnat that , thats why its consider a trash champ overall and is never ben used in any serious tournaments. Katarina channels and that's why zhonya's doesn't work on her while she's ulting. That's why she's still trash in tournaments. I generally chose champs that can break channels like morg, trist, sion, rammus in normals because nunu and kat are just too strong otherwise when your team doesn't have any hard CC ! D:< I also have to agree with the don't buy RoA on manaless champs thing. Do you buy boots of swiftness and boots of mobility so you'll have a minimum of +70 move speed, and a max of 120 move speed? I mean you can but it's not gold efficient. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On January 09 2012 03:24 r.Evo wrote: I find starks on the support a stupid idea as well in an organized setting. Rather let top/jungle build it instead of wits end and be done with it for major midgame fights (also those people are always in the middle so you get the full benefit from the armor reduction) than having your support struggle with getting it at 45 minutes, if at all. People like Irelia, Udyr, Skarner, Gangplank, Cho and most likely more can all fit a starks in rather well imo. It's not a stupid idea if you can afford it - that is in rather long games. Now if you let everyone on the team buy a couple more wards, and the support a couple less, the support can get Starks quicker. That makes it less troublesome than to fit it into a build of another champ, since there's really not much of a problem with Reverie -> Starks on most supports. Thus you rebalance the gold cost of the aura by rebalancing the money spent on wards. This works nicely because Starks provides almost all stats as an aura. It also doesn't mean a huge investment on one (non-support) champ anymore, just a small cost on everyone. That being said, IF you have a champ who can properly fit starks into his regular build, and Starks is appropriate for the current match, it is most likely still slightly better. 20% ASpd better, so to say. The range of the armor reduction aura is not really an issue. 1200 is plenty even on a support (well maybe except for Soraka). Junglers don't earn too much money either and often struggle with survivability, so I don't expect it to go too well on them. Solo top is the most likely non-support Starks carrier. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On January 09 2012 03:44 Hidden_MotiveS wrote: Katarina channels and that's why zhonya's doesn't work on her while she's ulting. That's why she's still trash in tournaments. I generally chose champs that can break channels like morg, trist, sion, rammus in normals because nunu and kat are just too strong otherwise when your team doesn't have any hard CC ! D:< You know Morg takes 3 seconds to hard CC anyone, exactly Kata's ult duration and more than Nunu's, right?  I consider Kata quite strong against Morg because of that, she can easily get out of your ult with Shumpo, has quite some range with W->Q, and Morg has nothing to deal with her ult except shielding herself, which can be baited to be on cd when you go in.I don't what's best between sorcs, lucidity or mercs, tho. I guess if you buy blue pots often you won't need lucidity. | ||
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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
On January 09 2012 04:18 Brees wrote: stop feedin the troll, the tried and true kat build will always be sorc/rylai's/gunblade. after that is situational but GA is pretty good. Do you have anything to back that up? He linked to a very good Katarina player saying Rylai's is trash on her. | ||
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Kaniol
Poland5551 Posts
On January 09 2012 04:24 Alzadar wrote: Do you have anything to back that up? He linked to a very good Katarina player saying Rylai's is trash on her. He didn't say that Rylai is a trash item, he said that it is a very situational item on her... | ||
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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
On January 09 2012 04:27 Kaniol wrote: He didn't say that Rylai is a trash item, he said that it is a very situational item on her... sure, he doesnt take into account the interaction between W + E and flat hp. it is a reduced percentage like gragas which makes flat hp actually really good on katarina for when you go in. I also play her top where as he plays her mid so the builds are obviously going to be different. He goes for full burst on squishy mages while im trying to do sustain harass and have a CC for when ganks come. | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
On January 09 2012 04:27 Kaniol wrote: He didn't say that Rylai is a trash item, he said that it is a very situational item on her... "You pay 3000g for 80ap and then wonder why your damage isn't high enough to kill someone. It wasn't until people I transitioned from rylais into gunblade that i noticed that rylais is a super situational item and should almost never be bought outside of very few champions/situations." Forgive my paraphrasing I guess, but he's definitely saying/implying that Rylai's first is trash, and even later in the game is super situational. On January 09 2012 04:30 Brees wrote: sure, he doesnt take into account the interaction between W + E and flat hp. it is a reduced percentage like gragas which makes flat hp actually really good on katarina for when you go in. I also play her top where as he plays her mid so the builds are obviously going to be different. He goes for full burst on squishy mages while im trying to do sustain harass and have a CC for when ganks come. Your logic is faulty, damage reducers have equal synergy with resistances as they do health, since they only take into account your effective health, which is health*(1+resists/100). | ||
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Haasts
New Zealand4445 Posts
On January 09 2012 03:24 r.Evo wrote: Rather let top/jungle build starks instead of wits end and be done with it for major midgame fights (also those people are always in the middle so you get the full benefit from the armor reduction) than having your support struggle with getting it at 45 minutes, if at all. People like Irelia, Udyr, Skarner, Gangplank, Cho and most likely more can all fit a starks in rather well imo. I'd never considered replacing Rageblade/Wit's End with Starks on Skarner, but I'm willing to give it a go - anyone tried this with jungle Skarner/Udyr, assuming you've got an AD bruiser toplane? | ||
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