EPTPlus a hoodie.
[Patch 1.0.0.131: Viktor] General Discussion - Page 123
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Plus a hoodie. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On January 08 2012 17:12 BlackMagister wrote: Double Wota is "imba", but what about double Starks? I'm not really sure what team comp could take advantage of that though. Starks for the AD carry and the top lane bruiser. Riven, Trynd and such with Graves? Maybe even Talon? Doublestarks isn't as good because the attack speed isn't that great and you can get lifesteal from different sources. Double Wota gives AP which every caster needs and wants, and it's the only source that gives vamp. Having a single starks on a 3+ physical team is awesome though, dunno why almost no one seems to get it. If it gave like an 50AD aura you'd probs see it everywhere. | ||
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emucxg
Finland4559 Posts
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freelander
Hungary4707 Posts
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On January 08 2012 21:27 JackDino wrote: Starks is 2.7k gold, 20% attackspeed and 20% lifesteal on your AD, your bruiser and your jungler is amazing, don't need 4 AD. I'd say it's even amazing if you have someone like a noct jungling and an ad carry bot, but it's too expensive to get it early for just those 2. Plus 1200 range 20 Armor Reduction and a decent amount of HP5. Starks is good for pretty much anything but double AP setups. I've even seen Starks in pro-team scrims a couple of times the last few days. | ||
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Bwaaaa
Australia969 Posts
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RogerX
New Zealand3180 Posts
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On January 08 2012 22:05 RogerX wrote: oo Spines link some vods? I wanna see how effective it is. The thing is I never actually saw it completed in the last few days lol. Mainly because of Regi making bad plays huehue. The point is that the pros are starting to realize how good it is and that should support my argument a bit. I can assure you that it is VERY effective under the right circumstances, as I've built it a lot (well, that's still significantly less than 50% of my support matches, it's definitely not something I'd rush as a cookie-cutter build). Especially if you've currently got the momentum it typically seals the deal as you can sustain tower pushes a lot better (the HP5 is actually worth a bunch, and the Lifesteal as well of coursee). It always feels like my carries suddenly just won't die anymore. | ||
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
On January 08 2012 13:12 Cloud9157 wrote: Wow, fuck my life, majority of you are 1500+ ELO? Just broke 1300 for the first time in a few months. Such shit teams sometimes. Should have probably caveated the poll with a minimum number of games played. A lot of people peak high from the +40 placement games and then tank down several hundred Elo because they hadn't played enough games to reach their proper Elo. 1500 isn't all that high though, imo. BTW, I just made up BS, as I've never played above 1650~. I just don't think ELO shows skill until you're platinum. I've seen 1800 ELO players in normal that honestly just suck balls (in my opinion anyways). There's still a decent amount of variability with 1800+ players. At that point it generally comes down to either playing a champ they're bad at or hubris, though. Play is generally pretty smooth with people knowing how to support a gank, CC chain, and dive without hesitation. People also understand how to e.g. take dragon when enemy sends 2-3 top. You still get a lot of people incapable of properly forcing objectives. They generally want to try and zone/poke too much instead of focusing down the objective, which gives the enemy 5 years to get everything in position to fight. There's a lot of one-sided games where lanes feed really really hard because they overextend without wards or just try to keep trading with someone they can't beat. Some people are just really stupid at any Elo. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On January 08 2012 23:10 Craton wrote: There's a lot of one-sided games where lanes feed really really hard because they overextend without wards or just try to keep trading with someone they can't beat. Some people are just really stupid at any Elo. I don't really understand this, it's so fucking weird. As in, some games all of your lanes lose really hard, like really hard. And some games all of your lanes are winning really hard. Like wtf matchmaking. | ||
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wussleeQ
United States3130 Posts
On January 08 2012 21:24 freelander wrote: 50% spellvamp sounds pretty ridiculous if you have a cassiopeia and ryze for example with ryze it turns into 75% with the ulti. crraaaazyyy | ||
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
On January 08 2012 23:19 JackDino wrote: I don't really understand this, it's so fucking weird. As in, some games all of your lanes lose really hard, like really hard. And some games all of your lanes are winning really hard. Like wtf matchmaking. It has nothing to do with matchmaking. People play champs or matchups they suck at or just play like retards for parts of games. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On January 08 2012 23:47 Craton wrote: It has nothing to do with matchmaking. People play champs or matchups they suck at or just play like retards for parts of games. Yeah I know but when you get such onesided matches where every single lane is winning on 1 team or losing it's just weird. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 08 2012 20:36 JackDino wrote: Doublestarks isn't as good because the attack speed isn't that great and you can get lifesteal from different sources. Double Wota gives AP which every caster needs and wants, and it's the only source that gives vamp. Having a single starks on a 3+ physical team is awesome though, dunno why almost no one seems to get it. If it gave like an 50AD aura you'd probs see it everywhere. Double Stark's also wastes the 2nd -armor debuff. You can double up on the team buffs for the carriers, but the -armor aura doesn't get doubled on anyone. | ||
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Niton
United States2395 Posts
On January 08 2012 22:15 spinesheath wrote: The thing is I never actually saw it completed in the last few days lol. Mainly because of Regi making bad plays huehue. The point is that the pros are starting to realize how good it is and that should support my argument a bit. I can assure you that it is VERY effective under the right circumstances, as I've built it a lot (well, that's still significantly less than 50% of my support matches, it's definitely not something I'd rush as a cookie-cutter build). Especially if you've currently got the momentum it typically seals the deal as you can sustain tower pushes a lot better (the HP5 is actually worth a bunch, and the Lifesteal as well of coursee). It always feels like my carries suddenly just won't die anymore. The issue is that even if you're rushing it, there's a sizable amount of time where you've got an Emblem of Valor and a Recurve Bow and the enemy support has a Reverie. It's something they're trying out, but - just like Taric, or the '5 sets of XP quints + Zilean' strategy - doesn't guarantee it'll see continued use, or even that it's good. You can blow up a support with no health or defensive items incredibly easily, and if you're building anything in that regard before finishing Stark's, it's coming in about 1300 gold slower than Reverie. It looks really strong, but Stark's plays really poorly because of how horrendously weak you are as a support while you're building it, especially if you're attempting to run Gold/10 yellows to rush it faster. It's a really risky item that might pay off if you're not behind after your support skips Gold/10 items and any sort of burst protection, but I can't see it actually being useful because, hey, support items matter. | ||
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RogerX
New Zealand3180 Posts
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
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Niton
United States2395 Posts
On January 09 2012 00:26 Craton wrote: Starks is not a "weak" or "bad" item on a support in a team with 3+ AD (which is the norm). Shurelya's gives you a temporary speed buff which may or may not impact the fight in a meaningful way. Moreover, you usually finish the first big support item before actual team fights start and not during the first 1-2 dragon. Starks offers more in the way of sustain and lifesteal. There are times and team comps where one is going to be better than the other, but it's completely ignorant to try and say Starks is always worse than Shurelya's. I didn't say Stark's is a bad item - I said that its components are bad items, especially on a support, who never needs attack speed or life steal. Stark's might be a good support item if you get the ability to build it without losing your lane, but Emblem of Valor and (maybe) Recurve Bow really do not compare in any way to Philosopher's Stone and Ruby Crystal / Kindlegem. Also, the cost differences are only close if you skip defensive items, making yourself an incredibly easy target because you might as well be naked until 2700g. If you don't, the difference between 'Finishing Reverie' and 'Finishing Stark's' leaves a nice-sized timing gap. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On January 09 2012 00:20 Niton wrote: The issue is that even if you're rushing it, there's a sizable amount of time where you've got an Emblem of Valor and a Recurve Bow and the enemy support has a Reverie. It's something they're trying out, but - just like Taric, or the '5 sets of XP quints + Zilean' strategy - doesn't guarantee it'll see continued use, or even that it's good. You can blow up a support with no health or defensive items incredibly easily, and if you're building anything in that regard before finishing Stark's, it's coming in about 1300 gold slower than Reverie. It looks really strong, but Stark's plays really poorly because of how horrendously weak you are as a support while you're building it, especially if you're attempting to run Gold/10 yellows to rush it faster. It's a really risky item that might pay off if you're not behind after your support skips Gold/10 items and any sort of burst protection, but I can't see it actually being useful because, hey, support items matter. Well, quite simply: I have not yet played a game where I felt like I should actually rush Starks. I would always have either an Aegis or a Reverie before starting to work on Stark's. That makes it a lategame item if you build it on a support. One that you rarely get, but hey, at least it's not a 30 minute Kage's Lucky Pick like I recently saw Nyph get in a scrim. Now if you have someone on the team who can build an earlier Starks without messing up his build, I don't see why you wouldn't. The ranged AD typically shouldn't build it though, at least in the case of an IE build. In a BT build I can see it working much better. Other champs who could get it are obviously tanky autoattackers. Including Cho. | ||
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