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On January 08 2012 08:00 Two_DoWn wrote:
IE is the second single highest damage booster in the game behind deathcap.
The reason you get it first is because it boosts all of the stats you already have- any inherent damage, crit, or aspeed is multiplied by an IE. You dont need other items in front of it because you already have those stats. Not to mention that going PD first will only serve to give you a massive power lull- its a lot easier to stack stats BEHIND the multiplier than it is to get it last. How many people you see get dcap as a third item on ap casters.
MAYBE BECAUSE IT'S THE MOST EXPENSIVE (excluding triforce)? HMMMMMM
EDIT: why does no one take that into account when talking about all these items. Like, why would you buy Black cleaver, when you could buy a LW and a dagger haha.
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Aight yo, just bought Viktor. Gonna take advantage of his sleeper op status, and then when they buff him I'll be unstoppable.
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I thought the reason you rush IE is that you can't always just stand there and fight. Sometimes you only get a chance to get one auto off before needing to get out of the way, or you're standing around poking so you take one shot and back off. If you chunk someone with a lucky crit then it can be an opportunity for your team to engage. IE lets you do that stuff better than anything else.
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On January 08 2012 07:36 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
You don't build infinity edge first because it's the best single damage item. In fact, it's probably the worst one in the game if we're comparing the legendary items (unless you have horrible cooldowns for triforce). You build infinity edge because after you have a second or third big item nothing stands a chance of surpassing it since it scales better than anything else due to multiplicative gains.
Also, doesn't Teemo poop on Skarner pretty badly too?
Phantom Dancer is even worse. I've run some maths on this before (I think it was actually to do with someone asking about wits end) but for pure autoattack damage, IE outperforms PD - and not just because you're spending more on an IE. IE gives more damage per point of gold spent as well. I guess if you have attack speed scaling that's another consideration - something like vayne silver bolts or kogmaw whateveritscalled - but for everyone else, IE is a better stand alone item than PD.
PD does give movespeed, that's the only other consideration.
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On January 08 2012 08:06 tobi9999 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2012 08:00 Two_DoWn wrote:
IE is the second single highest damage booster in the game behind deathcap.
The reason you get it first is because it boosts all of the stats you already have- any inherent damage, crit, or aspeed is multiplied by an IE. You dont need other items in front of it because you already have those stats. Not to mention that going PD first will only serve to give you a massive power lull- its a lot easier to stack stats BEHIND the multiplier than it is to get it last. How many people you see get dcap as a third item on ap casters. MAYBE BECAUSE IT'S THE MOST EXPENSIVE (excluding triforce)? HMMMMMM EDIT: why does no one take that into account when talking about all these items. Like, why would you buy Black cleaver, when you could buy a LW and a dagger haha.
Expense has nothing to do with it. If there was a 5000 gold item that let you 1 shot people, but only if you had 5 other items that cost 2000+gold, guess what. You get the 5000 gold item last.
IE is just hands down the best item for autoattackers that you can buy at any point in the game. Why would you waste time getting an inferior item first? It literally makes no sense to get the stats you want to multiply ages before you are going to actually multiply them.
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I just buy a BF sword for the AD, and if I have to go b and don't have enough money to finish the full IE, I squish in zeal (and maybe a vamp scepter) before. Which also makes it easy to switch to BT instead, which can be useful (to be fair, it's rarely better, but when it is, and I can switch, I feel all smart and stuff)
(exept on Ashe, but nobody plays ashe anymore T.T)
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On January 08 2012 08:10 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Aight yo, just bought Viktor. Gonna take advantage of his sleeper op status, and then when they buff him I'll be unstoppable.
Hes kinda trash.
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Most of the time you can't stand still and right click someone though, PD gives you much better animation canceling and kiting. I still wouldn't rush it first on most champions but it's not so black-and-white, as IE gives damage and nothing more whereas PD gives far more utility with movespeed along with better animation canceling.
LOL You see that Cruzerthebruzer vs TOO and Reginald? =D Still think Skarner is fine? ;D
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Naw, its pretty much black and white. At the point in the game where you get your IE the laning phase will be ending because you FORCE it to end. IE powers up an ad carry that much. If you give me a carry with an IE at that point in the game against a carry with a PD, I can guarantee you that the team with the carry who has an IE will win that teamfight.
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Maybe, but what if that carry with the IE gets run down and killed by something like Skarner while the PD carry is able to kite and run away?
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On January 08 2012 08:30 Shikyo wrote:
Maybe, but what if that carry with the IE gets run down and killed by something like Skarner while the PD carry is able to kite and run away?
Then the carry with the IE may aswell buy a deathcap so he gets banned for being bad, if a PD lets you run away from a skarner while an IE doesn't then something is really really wrong. Pdancer first over IE is only any good on kog/vayne because they scale harder with attackspeed than others if no other damage items, if you buy a pdancer first on any other carry you'll do no damage at all, gl kiting when you do 0 dmg.
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PD is not going to save you from a Skarner. Even if you can kite a little better, so what? You're doing so much less damage that the enemy team can just let you kite because you're not threatening.
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On January 08 2012 08:30 Shikyo wrote:
Maybe, but what if that carry with the IE gets run down and killed by something like Skarner while the PD carry is able to kite and run away?
Then the tank line fucked up hard, or the ad carry had shit positioning.. At that point the skarner should get blown up by the ad carry before skarner can even reach.
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On January 08 2012 08:22 Shikyo wrote:
Most of the time you can't stand still and right click someone though, PD gives you much better animation canceling and kiting. I still wouldn't rush it first on most champions but it's not so black-and-white, as IE gives damage and nothing more whereas PD gives far more utility with movespeed along with better animation canceling.
LOL You see that Cruzerthebruzer vs TOO and Reginald? =D Still think Skarner is fine? ;D
What... ? You can animation cancel with IE just as well as with PD. PD gives you better kiting because it gives you movespeed. IE is still better because it when you get those single autos off on a high priority target they're more relevant. I don't even know why we're talking about rushing PD anyways, it's so bad. A better comparison would be BT+Zeal.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 08 2012 08:34 starfries wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2012 08:22 Shikyo wrote:
Most of the time you can't stand still and right click someone though, PD gives you much better animation canceling and kiting. I still wouldn't rush it first on most champions but it's not so black-and-white, as IE gives damage and nothing more whereas PD gives far more utility with movespeed along with better animation canceling.
LOL You see that Cruzerthebruzer vs TOO and Reginald? =D Still think Skarner is fine? ;D What... ? You can animation cancel with IE just as well as with PD. PD gives you better kiting because it gives you movespeed. IE is still better because it when you get those single autos off on a high priority target they're more relevant. I don't even know why we're talking about rushing PD anyways, it's so bad. A better comparison would be BT+Zeal.
Higher Aspd = shorter attack animation = easier to kite.
I don't think it's as significant as Shikyo is making it out to be, but to say you can do it "just as well" with IE isn't correct either.
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Why would I buy it on any other carry than vayne or kogmaw.. I'm just saying you shouldn't think so black-and-white about everything. I wonder if IE would be as clearly superior if it didn't scale so well with most skills the ADs have.
Also, you can compare IE vs PD like that naturally, but you could also consider that PD + BF for instance deals same damage as Doran Blade + IE. Okay, it costs 200 gold more but either way there's still the utility benefits.
OR, you could consider that if you're laning against an Ezreal, instead of going with pure damage you could go PD to help with dodging him. And so on and so forth.
Also, even if IE is stronger than say, PD and 2 dorans, a PD is stronger than say, BF and a pickaxe. So what if you can gain an advantage during the phase where they don't have an IE yet? And then when they get it done your own BF is already done and you're beating them again?
As I said, you shouldn't think so black-and-white about things.
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With this lolreplay addon thingy am I able to watch games from other people are well? If so are there any popular sites that host replays from top pros?
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On January 08 2012 08:36 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2012 08:34 starfries wrote:On January 08 2012 08:22 Shikyo wrote:
Most of the time you can't stand still and right click someone though, PD gives you much better animation canceling and kiting. I still wouldn't rush it first on most champions but it's not so black-and-white, as IE gives damage and nothing more whereas PD gives far more utility with movespeed along with better animation canceling.
LOL You see that Cruzerthebruzer vs TOO and Reginald? =D Still think Skarner is fine? ;D What... ? You can animation cancel with IE just as well as with PD. PD gives you better kiting because it gives you movespeed. IE is still better because it when you get those single autos off on a high priority target they're more relevant. I don't even know why we're talking about rushing PD anyways, it's so bad. A better comparison would be BT+Zeal. Higher Aspd = shorter attack animation = easier to kite. I don't think it's as significant as Shikyo is making it out to be, but to say you can do it "just as well" with IE isn't correct either.
Aspd will make the wind-up animation faster, and you cancel the recovery portion, but you have to do it more often. I think it evens out unless you don't autoattack as fast as your attack speed allows.
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United States13132 Posts
On January 08 2012 08:26 Two_DoWn wrote:
Naw, its pretty much black and white. At the point in the game where you get your IE the laning phase will be ending because you FORCE it to end. IE powers up an ad carry that much. If you give me a carry with an IE at that point in the game against a carry with a PD, I can guarantee you that the team with the carry who has an IE will win that teamfight.
It definitely isn't black and white. There are plenty of times where I build a BT over an IE with the intent that it will give me a much easier and stronger mid game. Lifesteal is basically impossible to value without putting it into game context, and if I think I'm going to get dived I tend to build BT > IE 100% of the time since it'll allow me to live and do even more damage. BT can also allow you to completely zone somebody from bottom lane farming so it can be useful if you're able to set something like that up (aka you got really ahead at the start). It's far easier to build on that advantage when you're topped off 100% of the time and can freely push, zone, and threaten the enemy.
On January 08 2012 08:42 NotSorry wrote:
With this lolreplay addon thingy am I able to watch games from other people are well? If so are there any popular sites that host replays from top pros?
You can get replay files from other people and watch them, but I'm not sure pro players actually take the time to upload them. You're probably better off watching VoDs on their stream.
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I hope i'm reading it wrong and people ain't starting think PD first is a good item.
Because if it's the case, i lose all faith in this game.
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EPT
