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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. ===== + Show Spoiler +If your [Stream] thread was moved to the general TL Stream subforum (aka SC stream land), find your thread and PM it to me and I'll move it back to LoL territory. I can argue with staff that moving a non-SC thread into a SC subforum is just asking for that thread to get buried.
- Neo, Dec. 15 2011, 6:33 KST I have admin approval. I'll be moving LoL streams back to the subforum. Stream name will be based on Summoner name. - Neo 7:07 KST |
On December 17 2011 09:43 Alzadar wrote:
What's the deal with Stark's Fervor? When so many team compositions seem to involve three physical damage dealers, it seems like madness not to get a physical aura item, yet I rarely see it.
I've started preferring it as a source of lifesteal on Ezreal, since it reliably provides me with 20% lifesteal (vs unreliable 25% from a fully stacked Bloodthirster) and more importantly increases the effectiveness of the two AD bruisers that are almost certainly a part of my team.
Boots - Brutalizer - Trinity Force - Infinity Edge - Stark's
I actually have been trying building Emblem first top lane as a cheap substitute for Wriggle's. it works well in some matchups but in others you really need the armor. and of course you need to be diligent about buying wards. I think it's a decent choice on Irelia. I would get the Stark's later on in the game though, I don't think it's a good substitute for Wit's End since Wit's gives you much more damage.
I don't really like it on AD carries either, since you really need the damage of the BT and you also want to stay alive anyways so keeping your stacks shouldn't be a huge problem. Executioner's calling is a cheap alternative for lifesteal.
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On December 17 2011 09:26 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 09:20 rob.au wrote:
Has anyone from riot ever commented on why they didn't add tp scrolls to LoL? We have them. Its the b button.
Perhaps being a bit prickish, but I hate it when people say b is the free TP. TP summoner spell is the closest to the "free" TP and it's still different because of huge cooldowns (which is why I always question why people say LoL has free blinks, but if you bait the flash out, it's a huge advantage now because of cooldowns, but I digress), and ability to TP to minions/wards instead of only buildings. If you combined summoner TP with base recall you'd have something close to a TP scroll.
edit: For why they don't have it, I'm going to guess it's because the LoL map is terrible and pretty small. I've always believed that LoL gave everyone the free back to base (not the same as a TP because 1. you can't TP BACK out to lane 2. Taking any damage stops you going back, not just stuns) because of the small map. The size, lack of true long/short lanes, and restrictions of the map don't allow for couriers or side lane shops to be useful, so they give you a free back to base. Scrolls would probably have to be a bit more expensive, but I agree that towers are much stronger/intuitive in LoL, so it makes defending very easy.
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Ez loses out on a ton of needed AD going starks instead of BT. The problem with Starks generally comes down to who is a good carrier. Ideally your support would get it, but it falls pretty low on the item priority list, while carries generally need to maximize their builds. Your bruiser is probably the one who will end up getting it, but it's better suited for fighters who actually want the attack speed (but even fighters get built as bruisers or not used at all these days). Trynd is about the only champ I see get it with any regularity.
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On December 17 2011 09:54 starfries wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 09:43 Alzadar wrote:
What's the deal with Stark's Fervor? When so many team compositions seem to involve three physical damage dealers, it seems like madness not to get a physical aura item, yet I rarely see it.
I've started preferring it as a source of lifesteal on Ezreal, since it reliably provides me with 20% lifesteal (vs unreliable 25% from a fully stacked Bloodthirster) and more importantly increases the effectiveness of the two AD bruisers that are almost certainly a part of my team.
Boots - Brutalizer - Trinity Force - Infinity Edge - Stark's I actually have been trying building Emblem first top lane as a cheap substitute for Wriggle's. it works well in some matchups but in others you really need the armor. and of course you need to be diligent about buying wards. I think it's a decent choice on Irelia. I would get the Stark's later on in the game though, I don't think it's a good substitute for Wit's End since Wit's gives you much more damage. I don't really like it on AD carries either, since you really need the damage of the BT and you also want to stay alive anyways so keeping your stacks shouldn't be a huge problem. Executioner's calling is a cheap alternative for lifesteal.
When do you include the Bloodthirster in your AD carry's build? In the lane phase there's still a fairly large chance of dying so it seems like a poor choice for a first item. If you go IE first instead (best damage output), then following it up with a BT seems silly since then you've got two big AD items with no attack speed. BT -> PD also delays your IE a long time, meaning much less damage than your counterpart if he has an Infinity Edge.
Especially on Ezreal where you want to get a Trinity Force first, to then follow it up with a BT just delays your IE so damn long.
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On December 17 2011 09:43 Alzadar wrote:
What's the deal with Stark's Fervor? When so many team compositions seem to involve three physical damage dealers, it seems like madness not to get a physical aura item, yet I rarely see it.
I've started preferring it as a source of lifesteal on Ezreal, since it reliably provides me with 20% lifesteal (vs unreliable 25% from a fully stacked Bloodthirster) and more importantly increases the effectiveness of the two AD bruisers that are almost certainly a part of my team.
Boots - Brutalizer - Trinity Force - Infinity Edge - Stark's
Too specific for a solo queue item it seems. An early Starks doesn't give a whole lot of early game power except the life steal which top/jungle usually gets wriggles for sustain and bot can get it's lifesteal needs out of a BT and get way better stats (DMG) compared to as/arpen. By the time someone would sell their wriggles to finish a build a game is probably decided.
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Stark's is an amazing item. If you look at the cost-efficiency and the stats, it's fuckign ridiculous even without it giving an aura. The biggest issue with it being built is the question of who is going to build it. supports aren't going to have the gold to buy it and no way is a support going to be able to save up over 1k to get recurve bow or buy it outright. It's not attractive for AD carries 'cause as an AD carry you simply don't have the item slots for it. IT/BT/LW/PD/ is simply just too strong to pass up. Junglers are too starved for gold to be able to get it usually. Only person I'd ever build it on is solo top imo.
On December 17 2011 10:06 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 09:54 starfries wrote:On December 17 2011 09:43 Alzadar wrote:
What's the deal with Stark's Fervor? When so many team compositions seem to involve three physical damage dealers, it seems like madness not to get a physical aura item, yet I rarely see it.
I've started preferring it as a source of lifesteal on Ezreal, since it reliably provides me with 20% lifesteal (vs unreliable 25% from a fully stacked Bloodthirster) and more importantly increases the effectiveness of the two AD bruisers that are almost certainly a part of my team.
Boots - Brutalizer - Trinity Force - Infinity Edge - Stark's I actually have been trying building Emblem first top lane as a cheap substitute for Wriggle's. it works well in some matchups but in others you really need the armor. and of course you need to be diligent about buying wards. I think it's a decent choice on Irelia. I would get the Stark's later on in the game though, I don't think it's a good substitute for Wit's End since Wit's gives you much more damage. I don't really like it on AD carries either, since you really need the damage of the BT and you also want to stay alive anyways so keeping your stacks shouldn't be a huge problem. Executioner's calling is a cheap alternative for lifesteal. When do you include the Bloodthirster in your AD carry's build? In the lane phase there's still a fairly large chance of dying so it seems like a poor choice for a first item. If you go IE first instead (best damage output), then following it up with a BT seems silly since then you've got two big AD items with no attack speed. BT -> PD also delays your IE a long time, meaning much less damage than your counterpart if he has an Infinity Edge. Especially on Ezreal where you want to get a Trinity Force first, to then follow it up with a BT just delays your IE so damn long.
BT is usually either first big item, or the big item after Zeal/PD if they don't have that much armor. Otherwise, it's a final item. So build paths usually look like this IE->Zeal/PD->LW/BT->BT/LW or BT->Zeal/PD->LW/IE->IE/LW
For Corki and Ez I like BT after Triforce 'cause they have nice ratios and aren't really supposed to be auto-attacking all that much. Also, BT is much much cheaper than IE and after invest 4k gold into Triforce unless you're farming super well or getting fed it's probably easier/faster to get a BT.
Stark's isn't good on an AD carry cause there are better items for your slots. The lifesteal on it is great, but BT gives better lifesteal (getting and maintaining stacks really shouldn't be an issue unless your team is losing hard). The aspd is good, but Zeal/PD gives more+crit. The -armor aura is really nice, but it's almost always better to just get more AD since it'll scale better with your other stats like crit.
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On December 17 2011 10:06 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 09:54 starfries wrote:On December 17 2011 09:43 Alzadar wrote:
What's the deal with Stark's Fervor? When so many team compositions seem to involve three physical damage dealers, it seems like madness not to get a physical aura item, yet I rarely see it.
I've started preferring it as a source of lifesteal on Ezreal, since it reliably provides me with 20% lifesteal (vs unreliable 25% from a fully stacked Bloodthirster) and more importantly increases the effectiveness of the two AD bruisers that are almost certainly a part of my team.
Boots - Brutalizer - Trinity Force - Infinity Edge - Stark's I actually have been trying building Emblem first top lane as a cheap substitute for Wriggle's. it works well in some matchups but in others you really need the armor. and of course you need to be diligent about buying wards. I think it's a decent choice on Irelia. I would get the Stark's later on in the game though, I don't think it's a good substitute for Wit's End since Wit's gives you much more damage. I don't really like it on AD carries either, since you really need the damage of the BT and you also want to stay alive anyways so keeping your stacks shouldn't be a huge problem. Executioner's calling is a cheap alternative for lifesteal. When do you include the Bloodthirster in your AD carry's build? In the lane phase there's still a fairly large chance of dying so it seems like a poor choice for a first item. If you go IE first instead (best damage output), then following it up with a BT seems silly since then you've got two big AD items with no attack speed. BT -> PD also delays your IE a long time, meaning much less damage than your counterpart if he has an Infinity Edge. Especially on Ezreal where you want to get a Trinity Force first, to then follow it up with a BT just delays your IE so damn long.
on a normal AD carry, I get a vamp scepter whenever I feel like I need lifesteal. it might be after a couple of dblades if my lane has no sustain, it might be after my IE/zeal if I'm with Soraka. then I finish my core of IE/PD and then build the vamp scepter into a BT, or get a LW if they are building armor.
on SOME carries that like to rush BT instead of IE, you'd get that first. personally though, I like to get IE on almost every AD carry just because it's so good lategame.
my advice for Ezreal is... to pick a better AD. honestly though there's a lot of variability for Ezreal so most builds are situational on how you are doing. Triforce/BT isn't that bad, and you really don't want to be getting a Stark's as your second item after triforce (I'm not really sure when you're proposing building it)
also I would argue that it's pretty hard to die during laning phase, because you have wards all over the place, you have a support babysitting you, and even if you do die you can just go right back to lane and farm up the stacks again. once you start roaming around for map objectives it's harder though, since you're going to be dived left and right in every teamfight and you can't always go farm up stacks whenever you want, like if you're expecting a Baron attempt by the enemy
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On December 17 2011 10:21 starfries wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 10:06 Alzadar wrote:On December 17 2011 09:54 starfries wrote:On December 17 2011 09:43 Alzadar wrote:
What's the deal with Stark's Fervor? When so many team compositions seem to involve three physical damage dealers, it seems like madness not to get a physical aura item, yet I rarely see it.
I've started preferring it as a source of lifesteal on Ezreal, since it reliably provides me with 20% lifesteal (vs unreliable 25% from a fully stacked Bloodthirster) and more importantly increases the effectiveness of the two AD bruisers that are almost certainly a part of my team.
Boots - Brutalizer - Trinity Force - Infinity Edge - Stark's I actually have been trying building Emblem first top lane as a cheap substitute for Wriggle's. it works well in some matchups but in others you really need the armor. and of course you need to be diligent about buying wards. I think it's a decent choice on Irelia. I would get the Stark's later on in the game though, I don't think it's a good substitute for Wit's End since Wit's gives you much more damage. I don't really like it on AD carries either, since you really need the damage of the BT and you also want to stay alive anyways so keeping your stacks shouldn't be a huge problem. Executioner's calling is a cheap alternative for lifesteal. When do you include the Bloodthirster in your AD carry's build? In the lane phase there's still a fairly large chance of dying so it seems like a poor choice for a first item. If you go IE first instead (best damage output), then following it up with a BT seems silly since then you've got two big AD items with no attack speed. BT -> PD also delays your IE a long time, meaning much less damage than your counterpart if he has an Infinity Edge. Especially on Ezreal where you want to get a Trinity Force first, to then follow it up with a BT just delays your IE so damn long. on a normal AD carry, I get a vamp scepter whenever I feel like I need lifesteal. it might be after a couple of dblades if my lane has no sustain, it might be after my IE/zeal if I'm with Soraka. then I finish my core of IE/PD and then build the vamp scepter into a BT, or get a LW if they are building armor. on SOME carries that like to rush BT instead of IE, you'd get that first. personally though, I like to get IE on almost every AD carry just because it's so good lategame. my advice for Ezreal is... to pick a better AD. honestly though there's a lot of variability for Ezreal so most builds are situational on how you are doing. Triforce/BT isn't that bad, and you really don't want to be getting a Stark's as your second item after triforce (I'm not really sure when you're proposing building it)
I go Boots/DBlade -> Brutalizer -> Sheen -> Trinity Force -> Infinity Edge -> Stark's -> PD/LW (sell Brutalizer) -> LW/PD
I see your point about dying in lane vs later, but it only strengthens my opinion about Bloodthirster. The ranged AD is pretty much always Target #1 for the other team at every stage of the game, so it just seems silly to me to put yourself at the risk of losing 40 damage if you die, which as you point out can't necessarily be recovered easily or in time for when it matters.
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On December 17 2011 10:29 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 10:21 starfries wrote:On December 17 2011 10:06 Alzadar wrote:On December 17 2011 09:54 starfries wrote:On December 17 2011 09:43 Alzadar wrote:
What's the deal with Stark's Fervor? When so many team compositions seem to involve three physical damage dealers, it seems like madness not to get a physical aura item, yet I rarely see it.
I've started preferring it as a source of lifesteal on Ezreal, since it reliably provides me with 20% lifesteal (vs unreliable 25% from a fully stacked Bloodthirster) and more importantly increases the effectiveness of the two AD bruisers that are almost certainly a part of my team.
Boots - Brutalizer - Trinity Force - Infinity Edge - Stark's I actually have been trying building Emblem first top lane as a cheap substitute for Wriggle's. it works well in some matchups but in others you really need the armor. and of course you need to be diligent about buying wards. I think it's a decent choice on Irelia. I would get the Stark's later on in the game though, I don't think it's a good substitute for Wit's End since Wit's gives you much more damage. I don't really like it on AD carries either, since you really need the damage of the BT and you also want to stay alive anyways so keeping your stacks shouldn't be a huge problem. Executioner's calling is a cheap alternative for lifesteal. When do you include the Bloodthirster in your AD carry's build? In the lane phase there's still a fairly large chance of dying so it seems like a poor choice for a first item. If you go IE first instead (best damage output), then following it up with a BT seems silly since then you've got two big AD items with no attack speed. BT -> PD also delays your IE a long time, meaning much less damage than your counterpart if he has an Infinity Edge. Especially on Ezreal where you want to get a Trinity Force first, to then follow it up with a BT just delays your IE so damn long. on a normal AD carry, I get a vamp scepter whenever I feel like I need lifesteal. it might be after a couple of dblades if my lane has no sustain, it might be after my IE/zeal if I'm with Soraka. then I finish my core of IE/PD and then build the vamp scepter into a BT, or get a LW if they are building armor. on SOME carries that like to rush BT instead of IE, you'd get that first. personally though, I like to get IE on almost every AD carry just because it's so good lategame. my advice for Ezreal is... to pick a better AD. honestly though there's a lot of variability for Ezreal so most builds are situational on how you are doing. Triforce/BT isn't that bad, and you really don't want to be getting a Stark's as your second item after triforce (I'm not really sure when you're proposing building it) I go Boots/DBlade -> Brutalizer -> Sheen -> Trinity Force -> Infinity Edge -> Stark's -> PD/LW (sell Brutalizer) -> LW/PD
I would get a vamp scepter after Trinity or Sheen. on Ez, since you get free attack speed I would focus on making your pokes hurt as much as possible which is the only thing he really has going for him, so definitely BT over Stark's and probably before IE. Brutalizer into Triforce is a really midgame focused build which is a good way to go imo since you desperately need to destroy people before the enemy AD carry gets too strong, and BT is another of those quick power items.
re: your edit
yeah it does suck to die and lose stacks, but especially on Ezreal you want damage over attackspeed.
also Stark's is not bad, but since it's an aura item you want someone else to build it since as AD carry you want to max out your damage for the item slots you have, and PD is just works so much better as an attack speed item than stark's. similarly, BT is the hardest-hitting lifesteal item you can get.
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Are spell vamp quints worth it on kennen? I read Ego's guide and he was suggesting these runes.
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On December 17 2011 10:40 HeroHenry wrote:
Are spell vamp quints worth it on kennen? I read Ego's guide and he was suggesting these runes.
I think it depends on how you play. Ego stays in lane forever which is why spell vamp and the dshield start works for him.
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What is the best champ( or just good champs) for stacking aura items?
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On December 17 2011 10:44 starfries wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 10:40 HeroHenry wrote:
Are spell vamp quints worth it on kennen? I read Ego's guide and he was suggesting these runes. I think it depends on how you play. Ego stays in lane forever which is why spell vamp and the dshield start works for him.
I copy his style when playing kennen so I should get it?
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On December 17 2011 10:51 HeroHenry wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 10:44 starfries wrote:On December 17 2011 10:40 HeroHenry wrote:
Are spell vamp quints worth it on kennen? I read Ego's guide and he was suggesting these runes. I think it depends on how you play. Ego stays in lane forever which is why spell vamp and the dshield start works for him. I copy his style when playing kennen so I should get it?
if you mean that you're still sitting in lane with a dshield by the time the enemy AP has backed twice and has 3 doran's rings and boots, then yes
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I can now say that there is actually no better feeling than smite-stealing baron. It makes you feel like the world's hugest pro.
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On December 17 2011 10:40 HeroHenry wrote:
Are spell vamp quints worth it on kennen? I read Ego's guide and he was suggesting these runes.
Haven't read his guide. I am not a high elo player. But even then AP quints make more sense to me. You're gonna be building Revolver as your first item anyways which will handle lane sustainability and 9% spell vamp early levels means you're gonna be getting like 5-14 HP for the first nine levels for every Q. Honestly you might as well just open Regrowth Pendant because it'll give you more lane sustainability than spell vamp quints for the first seven or eight minutes of the game.
edit:
I'm not advising people to open Regrowth on Kennen. Just sayin' that spell vamp quints on Kennen aren't good imo.
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On December 17 2011 10:50 Bwaaaa wrote:
What is the best champ( or just good champs) for stacking aura items?
A lot of AP carries get WotA. Jungling tanks may get Aegis, if not, that would be the support's role. Soul Shroud works on supports in some occasions (builds smoothly from mana manipulator opening). Starks is a bit iffy. My team gets Starks on the support as the very last item, not sure when else would be good to get it.
If you want one champ to carry all aura items, the best would be Taric. Taric has the most reliable survivability out of all supports, he has two natural auras from his skills, and he benefits from the stats of all aura items as well.
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Shroud is just an awkward item because of how iffy the CDR aura is. Lots of wasted CDR on the support who is already gonna be maxed, wasted CDR on the AP who is probably maxed or close to it with blue, and then the need to be in range of the aura before using abilities (notably, ults) to get any benefit out of it. Plus Shurelya's and Aegis are just so fking good.
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I would be pretty surprised if dorans + vamp/lifesteal quints weren't the standard opening a month from now
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On December 17 2011 11:57 UniversalSnip wrote:
I would be pretty surprised if dorans + vamp/lifesteal quints weren't the standard opening a month from now
I would. You get chunked in lane and you are done. boots+pots just gets you healed back up faster and with less risk.
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EPT
