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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. ===== + Show Spoiler +If your [Stream] thread was moved to the general TL Stream subforum (aka SC stream land), find your thread and PM it to me and I'll move it back to LoL territory. I can argue with staff that moving a non-SC thread into a SC subforum is just asking for that thread to get buried.
- Neo, Dec. 15 2011, 6:33 KST I have admin approval. I'll be moving LoL streams back to the subforum. Stream name will be based on Summoner name. - Neo 7:07 KST |
if you're sold on tanking, but not necessarily jungling, singed, udyr, galio, malphite, and cho'gath are all fairly 'traditional' top lane tank champions (malph a little less so, but its still doable). Arguably, udyr and cho function the highest with the least items, if that's a consideration.
amumu also has a somewhat decent laning phase, if you really invest in runes
also, 'better' is a really hard thing to quantify when comparing champions. it would be easier if we had a better idea of what you want to accomplish with this champion. For example, amumu, galio and malph are all fantastic aoe initiators, with galio being strong in lane vs casters and magic dmg, malph being practially a hard counter to ranged AD, and amumu is a strong all-around initiator who also provides significantly more sustained magic dmg than the other 2.
edit: if you want some good old-fashion bias, i'd say singed is prob my favorite tanking char :D
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i have udyr use him quite a bit. played skarner the last few times hes been free and really do not like how he plays at all. skarner is just a very uncomfortable champ for me
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On December 13 2011 13:18 obesechicken13 wrote:
I don't like veigar. No one champ should have all that power.
honestly if u actually play veig then after he bursts one guy, he can't do shit to the other ppl cuz he dont got ult anymor. because of this, I prefer to use cassiopeia cuz i can still poison everyone else and burst them down, I just dont have my CC which is usually fine, because my Taric/Maokai/Leona/Janna/Rammus/Udyr/etc. can CC as well and I can burst down more people. Just my $0.02.
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On December 27 2011 11:49 Varpulis wrote:
Hey all. A friend and I have been playing for a week or so. Neither of us are particularly good, but we have fun playing at whatever incredibly low level we're at. That being said, I'd like to maximize our win rate. We dual queue, and generally call bot together in every circumstance, to take advantage of our ability to communicate.
My friend prefers to play high health, melee champions. currently he mains Dr. Mundo. I'm flexible, but would prefer to play a carry, as I'm better at last hitting and less prone to walking blindly into ganks.
My question is: what are some good champs to get with the idea of dual lane bot? Any advice would be much appreciated.
ATM in tourneys Vayne+Alistar is pretty op as the AD+Tank, as is Graves+Alistar, both need good synchronization with each other
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On December 27 2011 12:47 Kyhron wrote:
I've been saving for a new tanky champ and its down to getting shen mumu or rammus, but i dont really know which one is "better" then the others
Imo from those three Rammus>Amumu>Shen. Rammus is hands down the strongest out of those three atm overall. Amumu's early game is pretty damn weak, but at low elo people won't harass your jungle as much so you can get through Amumu's weak early game np. His ult is gamechanging and his sustain dps is quite strong, but you gotta be able to hit your skillshots if you want to play him anywhere near full potential. Shen is a decent top laner, but falls off pretty heavily atm. Altho with the next round of buffs Shen may become overpowered if the buffs on the PBE are anything to go by.
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On December 27 2011 13:33 barbsq wrote:
if you're sold on tanking, but not necessarily jungling, singed, udyr, galio, malphite, and cho'gath are all fairly 'traditional' top lane tank champions (malph a little less so, but its still doable). Arguably, udyr and cho function the highest with the least items, if that's a consideration.
amumu also has a somewhat decent laning phase, if you really invest in runes
also, 'better' is a really hard thing to quantify when comparing champions. it would be easier if we had a better idea of what you want to accomplish with this champion. For example, amumu, galio and malph are all fantastic aoe initiators, with galio being strong in lane vs casters and magic dmg, malph being practially a hard counter to ranged AD, and amumu is a strong all-around initiator who also provides significantly more sustained magic dmg than the other 2.
edit: if you want some good old-fashion bias, i'd say singed is prob my favorite tanking char :D
I actually have galio cho udyr and malph already and while i do enjoy playing them i want someone new to play at the same time. its just one of those things where i want to expand my selection of who i can play as so i dont get burned out of playing my favorites.
though i will probably never get singed cuz i really dont like playing him. too boring and i feel like a huge asshole when i do 
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On December 27 2011 13:49 iMMortaL.797 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2011 11:49 Varpulis wrote:
Hey all. A friend and I have been playing for a week or so. Neither of us are particularly good, but we have fun playing at whatever incredibly low level we're at. That being said, I'd like to maximize our win rate. We dual queue, and generally call bot together in every circumstance, to take advantage of our ability to communicate.
My friend prefers to play high health, melee champions. currently he mains Dr. Mundo. I'm flexible, but would prefer to play a carry, as I'm better at last hitting and less prone to walking blindly into ganks.
My question is: what are some good champs to get with the idea of dual lane bot? Any advice would be much appreciated. ATM in tourneys Vayne+Alistar is pretty op as the AD+Tank, as is Graves+Alistar, both need good synchronization with each other
I'm sorry, but:
that's garbage. Vayne/Alistar is a good AD/Support lane, but it's not ''OP in tourneys'' (whatever that is supposed to mean), especially not taken out of context like that. Bottom lane might be less dependant on counterpicks than top lane is, but it still is. Vayne/Ali have their up- and downsides against certain MUs, as all possible lanes have. They are by no mean imbalanced, though. If you want proof, just check out the picks/bans/winrates of MLG Providence. Vayne was picked 6 times, 3 of those times her team won. Alistar was only picked once. Funnily enough, Ezreal, an AD who is probably considered a little bit underwhelming in comparison at the moment, was picked as often as Vayne was. My theory on that is that he's awesome for those 2v1 top lanes teams like TSM like to run.
On the synch comment: you are right, but that applies to basically every single AD+support lane. Hell, I'd even argue Vayne/Alistar have a pretty easy time clicking with each other - Ali WQs something, if it's next to a wall, you tumble->condem them, if it isn't, you try to get as much damage in as possible. Other lanes, say, X/Soraka, don't have those ''you want to engage right here and right now, dude'' moments without ANY sort of communication beforehand. Edit: there obviously is a correct moment to engage for each lane and their respective MUs, it's just that rarely any are as obvious as a Headbutt-Pulv next to a wall when you're playing Vayne.
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On December 27 2011 14:27 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2011 13:49 iMMortaL.797 wrote:On December 27 2011 11:49 Varpulis wrote:
Hey all. A friend and I have been playing for a week or so. Neither of us are particularly good, but we have fun playing at whatever incredibly low level we're at. That being said, I'd like to maximize our win rate. We dual queue, and generally call bot together in every circumstance, to take advantage of our ability to communicate.
My friend prefers to play high health, melee champions. currently he mains Dr. Mundo. I'm flexible, but would prefer to play a carry, as I'm better at last hitting and less prone to walking blindly into ganks.
My question is: what are some good champs to get with the idea of dual lane bot? Any advice would be much appreciated. ATM in tourneys Vayne+Alistar is pretty op as the AD+Tank, as is Graves+Alistar, both need good synchronization with each other I'm sorry, but: that's garbage. Vayne/Alistar is a good AD/Support lane, but it's not ''OP in tourneys'' (whatever that is supposed to mean), especially not taken out of context like that. Bottom lane might be less dependant on counterpicks than top lane is, but it still is. Vayne/Ali have their up- and downsides against certain MUs, as all possible lanes have. They are by no mean imbalanced, though. If you want proof, just check out the picks/bans/winrates of MLG Providence. Vayne was picked 6 times, 3 of those times her team won. Alistar was only picked once. Funnily enough, Ezreal, an AD who is probably considered a little bit underwhelming in comparison at the moment, was picked as often as Vayne was. My theory on that is that he's awesome for those 2v1 top lanes teams like TSM like to run. On the synch comment: you are right, but that applies to basically every single AD+support lane. Hell, I'd even argue Vayne/Alistar have a pretty easy time clicking with each other - Ali WQs something, if it's next to a wall, you tumble->condem them, if it isn't, you try to get as much damage in as possible. Other lanes, say, X/Soraka, don't have those ''you want to engage right here and right now, dude'' moments without ANY sort of communication beforehand. Edit: there obviously is a correct moment to engage for each lane and their respective MUs, it's just that rarely any are as obvious as a Headbutt-Pulv next to a wall when you're playing Vayne.
It's an unfortunate thing to say, but currently bot lane is the most imbalanced :/
First of all, unless there is a massive skill gap Graves is by far the best AD carry. And also, unless there is a massive skill gap Sona is the best support.
Also, I don't think that article is good evidence at all. Keep in mind that Chaox was by far the strongest AD carry at that event, and TSM did not pick Vayne that much.
and just as i was about to post this I hear chauster say that Chaox is better than Doublelift lol.
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Are the NA servers toast, or is it just me?
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United States4053 Posts
On December 27 2011 14:40 Ryalnos wrote:
Are the NA servers toast, or is it just me?
Not just you.
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On December 27 2011 14:36 tobi9999 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2011 14:27 Shiv. wrote:On December 27 2011 13:49 iMMortaL.797 wrote:On December 27 2011 11:49 Varpulis wrote:
Hey all. A friend and I have been playing for a week or so. Neither of us are particularly good, but we have fun playing at whatever incredibly low level we're at. That being said, I'd like to maximize our win rate. We dual queue, and generally call bot together in every circumstance, to take advantage of our ability to communicate.
My friend prefers to play high health, melee champions. currently he mains Dr. Mundo. I'm flexible, but would prefer to play a carry, as I'm better at last hitting and less prone to walking blindly into ganks.
My question is: what are some good champs to get with the idea of dual lane bot? Any advice would be much appreciated. ATM in tourneys Vayne+Alistar is pretty op as the AD+Tank, as is Graves+Alistar, both need good synchronization with each other I'm sorry, but: that's garbage. Vayne/Alistar is a good AD/Support lane, but it's not ''OP in tourneys'' (whatever that is supposed to mean), especially not taken out of context like that. Bottom lane might be less dependant on counterpicks than top lane is, but it still is. Vayne/Ali have their up- and downsides against certain MUs, as all possible lanes have. They are by no mean imbalanced, though. If you want proof, just check out the picks/bans/winrates of MLG Providence. Vayne was picked 6 times, 3 of those times her team won. Alistar was only picked once. Funnily enough, Ezreal, an AD who is probably considered a little bit underwhelming in comparison at the moment, was picked as often as Vayne was. My theory on that is that he's awesome for those 2v1 top lanes teams like TSM like to run. On the synch comment: you are right, but that applies to basically every single AD+support lane. Hell, I'd even argue Vayne/Alistar have a pretty easy time clicking with each other - Ali WQs something, if it's next to a wall, you tumble->condem them, if it isn't, you try to get as much damage in as possible. Other lanes, say, X/Soraka, don't have those ''you want to engage right here and right now, dude'' moments without ANY sort of communication beforehand. Edit: there obviously is a correct moment to engage for each lane and their respective MUs, it's just that rarely any are as obvious as a Headbutt-Pulv next to a wall when you're playing Vayne. It's an unfortunate thing to say, but currently bot lane is the most imbalanced :/ First of all, unless there is a massive skill gap Graves is by far the best AD carry. And also, unless there is a massive skill gap Sona is the best support. Also, I don't think that article is good evidence at all. Keep in mind that Chaox was by far the strongest AD carry at that event, and TSM did not pick Vayne that much. and just as i was about to post this I hear chauster say that Chaox is better than Doublelift lol.
what.. graves is not by far the best AD carry and sona is not the best support in all situations... where did you get those ideas?
edit: and i'm going to be hard pressed to be convinced if it isn't anything more than 'xyz played it in tourneys' or anecdotal evidence, kus those are really substantial claims there
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No dice on logins for at least some people right now is the word from On High.
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On December 27 2011 14:36 tobi9999 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2011 14:27 Shiv. wrote:On December 27 2011 13:49 iMMortaL.797 wrote:On December 27 2011 11:49 Varpulis wrote:
Hey all. A friend and I have been playing for a week or so. Neither of us are particularly good, but we have fun playing at whatever incredibly low level we're at. That being said, I'd like to maximize our win rate. We dual queue, and generally call bot together in every circumstance, to take advantage of our ability to communicate.
My friend prefers to play high health, melee champions. currently he mains Dr. Mundo. I'm flexible, but would prefer to play a carry, as I'm better at last hitting and less prone to walking blindly into ganks.
My question is: what are some good champs to get with the idea of dual lane bot? Any advice would be much appreciated. ATM in tourneys Vayne+Alistar is pretty op as the AD+Tank, as is Graves+Alistar, both need good synchronization with each other I'm sorry, but: that's garbage. Vayne/Alistar is a good AD/Support lane, but it's not ''OP in tourneys'' (whatever that is supposed to mean), especially not taken out of context like that. Bottom lane might be less dependant on counterpicks than top lane is, but it still is. Vayne/Ali have their up- and downsides against certain MUs, as all possible lanes have. They are by no mean imbalanced, though. If you want proof, just check out the picks/bans/winrates of MLG Providence. Vayne was picked 6 times, 3 of those times her team won. Alistar was only picked once. Funnily enough, Ezreal, an AD who is probably considered a little bit underwhelming in comparison at the moment, was picked as often as Vayne was. My theory on that is that he's awesome for those 2v1 top lanes teams like TSM like to run. On the synch comment: you are right, but that applies to basically every single AD+support lane. Hell, I'd even argue Vayne/Alistar have a pretty easy time clicking with each other - Ali WQs something, if it's next to a wall, you tumble->condem them, if it isn't, you try to get as much damage in as possible. Other lanes, say, X/Soraka, don't have those ''you want to engage right here and right now, dude'' moments without ANY sort of communication beforehand. Edit: there obviously is a correct moment to engage for each lane and their respective MUs, it's just that rarely any are as obvious as a Headbutt-Pulv next to a wall when you're playing Vayne. It's an unfortunate thing to say, but currently bot lane is the most imbalanced :/ First of all, unless there is a massive skill gap Graves is by far the best AD carry. And also, unless there is a massive skill gap Sona is the best support. Also, I don't think that article is good evidence at all. Keep in mind that Chaox was by far the strongest AD carry at that event, and TSM did not pick Vayne that much. and just as i was about to post this I hear chauster say that Chaox is better than Doublelift lol.
I never said it was balanced - I just said Vayne/Ali is not a lane that is flat out overpowered. And I'm pretty sure most people here would sign that statement.
Don't want to comment on Graves being the best AD carry by far, because I'm not good enough to actually judge that. I feel Sona is easily the strongest support, though.
Also:
How is Chaox not picking up Vayne not a good evidence of her not being way too strong? If someone who is generally considered as one of the top 5 people in the world at what he does consciously refrains from picking a certain tool or gadget in favor of another one to do his work, I'd say that means the tool he is willingly NOT using is not in any way too strong or too good.
Anyway, I'm not trying to discuss Vayne's viability or her relative strength. This started with me saying Ali/Vayne is not OP and I stand by that statement.
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United States17233 Posts
Vayne needs some slight nerfs, Graves probably too. The champs that get picked in a tournament are not particularly representative of strength one way or the other. Some people are just better with some champs, others fit in certain comps well, and others leave champs to be picked to bait into a suboptimal player taking it or to counterpick.
It's also fairly common not to pick a strong/op champ in scrims so you can practice against it. In solo queue they just pick w/e they want to practice.
I think they'll probably end up nerfing Sona's low level q/passive, hopefully vayne's W (although I'd like to see 50 range shaved off E too, but they never touch ranges zzz), and graves... just fuck graves. Stupid design.
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On December 27 2011 14:36 tobi9999 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2011 14:27 Shiv. wrote:On December 27 2011 13:49 iMMortaL.797 wrote:On December 27 2011 11:49 Varpulis wrote:
Hey all. A friend and I have been playing for a week or so. Neither of us are particularly good, but we have fun playing at whatever incredibly low level we're at. That being said, I'd like to maximize our win rate. We dual queue, and generally call bot together in every circumstance, to take advantage of our ability to communicate.
My friend prefers to play high health, melee champions. currently he mains Dr. Mundo. I'm flexible, but would prefer to play a carry, as I'm better at last hitting and less prone to walking blindly into ganks.
My question is: what are some good champs to get with the idea of dual lane bot? Any advice would be much appreciated. ATM in tourneys Vayne+Alistar is pretty op as the AD+Tank, as is Graves+Alistar, both need good synchronization with each other I'm sorry, but: that's garbage. Vayne/Alistar is a good AD/Support lane, but it's not ''OP in tourneys'' (whatever that is supposed to mean), especially not taken out of context like that. Bottom lane might be less dependant on counterpicks than top lane is, but it still is. Vayne/Ali have their up- and downsides against certain MUs, as all possible lanes have. They are by no mean imbalanced, though. If you want proof, just check out the picks/bans/winrates of MLG Providence. Vayne was picked 6 times, 3 of those times her team won. Alistar was only picked once. Funnily enough, Ezreal, an AD who is probably considered a little bit underwhelming in comparison at the moment, was picked as often as Vayne was. My theory on that is that he's awesome for those 2v1 top lanes teams like TSM like to run. On the synch comment: you are right, but that applies to basically every single AD+support lane. Hell, I'd even argue Vayne/Alistar have a pretty easy time clicking with each other - Ali WQs something, if it's next to a wall, you tumble->condem them, if it isn't, you try to get as much damage in as possible. Other lanes, say, X/Soraka, don't have those ''you want to engage right here and right now, dude'' moments without ANY sort of communication beforehand. Edit: there obviously is a correct moment to engage for each lane and their respective MUs, it's just that rarely any are as obvious as a Headbutt-Pulv next to a wall when you're playing Vayne. It's an unfortunate thing to say, but currently bot lane is the most imbalanced :/ First of all, unless there is a massive skill gap Graves is by far the best AD carry. And also, unless there is a massive skill gap Sona is the best support. Also, I don't think that article is good evidence at all. Keep in mind that Chaox was by far the strongest AD carry at that event, and TSM did not pick Vayne that much. and just as i was about to post this I hear chauster say that Chaox is better than Doublelift lol.
After all the nerfs, Graves is most definitely not the best AD carry "by far." He's definitely really strong, but not the best. Most every AD carry has their own niche that they excel in; you pick based on playstyle, counterpick, and what your team needs.
I do agree that Sona is probably the best support atm, but only due to how versatile she is. However, there are definitely better champs than her in specific niches. Leona/Alistar are much better when you need CC. Soraka is much better for anti-burst due to her heal being ridiculous along with having the best lane sustain. Janna is best support when it comes to anti-aoe or anti-initiation. There are niches and specific champs do better in specific situations. Sona is the most versatile tho I'll give you that.
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United States17233 Posts
heal soraka is the most troll bullshit support ever
good luck killing anything with 3 heals
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vayne *will be* the most powerful carry by a large margin next patch imo. i think the lack of dodge next patch will help all AD carries, but vayne especially, as it is currently the only viable counter to her massive damage output on a lot of champs
also i dunno what you guys are on about best lanes without mentioning urgot soraka
hello infinite Q spam and unkillability
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On December 27 2011 15:34 deskscaress wrote:
vayne *will be* the most powerful carry by a large margin next patch imo. i think the lack of dodge next patch will help all AD carries, but vayne especially, as it is currently the only viable counter to her massive damage output on a lot of champs
also i dunno what you guys are on about best lanes without mentioning urgot soraka
hello infinite Q spam and unkillability
How much info do we have on the next patch? Do we have more to go on than Viktor being added and dodge being removed?
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On December 27 2011 15:35 Ryalnos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2011 15:34 deskscaress wrote:
vayne *will be* the most powerful carry by a large margin next patch imo. i think the lack of dodge next patch will help all AD carries, but vayne especially, as it is currently the only viable counter to her massive damage output on a lot of champs
also i dunno what you guys are on about best lanes without mentioning urgot soraka
hello infinite Q spam and unkillability How much info do we have on the next patch? Do we have more to go on than Viktor being added and dodge being removed?
We also have some PBE stuff that gives us a hint of what may come.
On December 27 2011 15:34 deskscaress wrote:
vayne *will be* the most powerful carry by a large margin next patch imo. i think the lack of dodge next patch will help all AD carries, but vayne especially, as it is currently the only viable counter to her massive damage output on a lot of champs
also i dunno what you guys are on about best lanes without mentioning urgot soraka
hello infinite Q spam and unkillability
I don't think Vayne will be the most powerful carry by a large margin simply because of the removal of dodge. Sure, she's gettin hella buffed with removal of dodge, but she still has her drawbacks. Her short range seems to always be overlooked by people when discussing which AD carry is strongest. Yea, her damage is insane, but her range makes her an easy target, especially once the other team has an oracles.
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On December 27 2011 15:34 deskscaress wrote:
vayne *will be* the most powerful carry by a large margin next patch imo. i think the lack of dodge next patch will help all AD carries, but vayne especially, as it is currently the only viable counter to her massive damage output on a lot of champs
also i dunno what you guys are on about best lanes without mentioning urgot soraka
hello infinite Q spam and unkillability
a) We weren't talking about best lanes at all.
b) Sona/MF.
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EPT
