[Patch 1.0.0.129: Fizz] General Discussion - Page 20

On November 16 2011 08:22 epoc wrote:
I call bullshit on this riven hypercarry thing. I'd like to see her duel full build olaf

On November 16 2011 08:22 epoc wrote:
I call bullshit on this riven hypercarry thing. I'd like to see her duel full build olaf

On November 16 2011 08:18 mr_tolkien wrote:

Because you think having Wriggles and Wits end is completly bypassing tankiness ? If the opposing AD is good at kiting, your shield will just be used to tank the damage you could have avoided moving faster in his face with E :D
I don't see the use of blue on Udyr past the first though, and would see why Turtle is good if you plan to take the first 3 blues. The mid should ALWAYS have better use of the blue than you though.
And as I said, with W max, your ganks will be lacking, your clears will be longer (no speed boost between camps, and turtle is just useless at taking out camps), and even though you'll be more tanky, you're not much of an initiator anyway (no real gap closer, no AoE CC, ...). Your goal is to get into people's face and be able to annoy them while staying alive, like all tanks. Going early E maxing and no W allows you to do that even better, and when you hit an E, have 3 passive stacks, and press R, the guy you're hitting will probably be dead by the time he is out of the stun.

I don't go warmogs in my build btw, but phage/giant's belt, then decide on what to branch. Warmogs is awful if bought too late, and the goal of all «tanky» chars is to be at the frontier between too tanky (meaning you won't do shit, as nobody will care about you with a good reason) and too much DPS (which is why hybrid DPS/defense objects like Wits end are good). Except Singed.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree though, because nobody here seems to have ever tried to max E over W. But having played exclusively Udyr for 1 month (around 150 games with him this last month), and having toyed with all Udyr's build (Tiger-Turtle, Phœnix-Turtle, Phœnix-Bear, Phœnix-Tiger, ...), I can ensure you the most effective for jungle Udyr is Phœnix-Bear. In lane it's Turtle-Tiger though.

On November 16 2011 08:18 mr_tolkien wrote:

Because you think having Wriggles and Wits end is completly bypassing tankiness ? If the opposing AD is good at kiting, your shield will just be used to tank the damage you could have avoided moving faster in his face with E :D
I don't see the use of blue on Udyr past the first though, and would see why Turtle is good if you plan to take the first 3 blues. The mid should ALWAYS have better use of the blue than you though.
And as I said, with W max, your ganks will be lacking, your clears will be longer (no speed boost between camps, and turtle is just useless at taking out camps), and even though you'll be more tanky, you're not much of an initiator anyway (no real gap closer, no AoE CC, ...). Your goal is to get into people's face and be able to annoy them while staying alive, like all tanks. Going early E maxing and no W allows you to do that even better, and when you hit an E, have 3 passive stacks, and press R, the guy you're hitting will probably be dead by the time he is out of the stun.

I don't go warmogs in my build btw, but phage/giant's belt, then decide on what to branch. Warmogs is awful if bought too late, and the goal of all «tanky» chars is to be at the frontier between too tanky (meaning you won't do shit, as nobody will care about you with a good reason) and too much DPS (which is why hybrid DPS/defense objects like Wits end are good). Except Singed.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree though, because nobody here seems to have ever tried to max E over W. But having played exclusively Udyr for 1 month (around 150 games with him this last month), and having toyed with all Udyr's build (Tiger-Turtle, Phœnix-Turtle, Phœnix-Bear, Phœnix-Tiger, ...), I can ensure you the most effective for jungle Udyr is Phœnix-Bear. In lane it's Turtle-Tiger though.

On November 16 2011 08:18 mr_tolkien wrote:

Because you think having Wriggles and Wits end is completly bypassing tankiness ? If the opposing AD is good at kiting, your shield will just be used to tank the damage you could have avoided moving faster in his face with E :D
I don't see the use of blue on Udyr past the first though, and would see why Turtle is good if you plan to take the first 3 blues. The mid should ALWAYS have better use of the blue than you though.
And as I said, with W max, your ganks will be lacking, your clears will be longer (no speed boost between camps, and turtle is just useless at taking out camps), and even though you'll be more tanky, you're not much of an initiator anyway (no real gap closer, no AoE CC, ...). Your goal is to get into people's face and be able to annoy them while staying alive, like all tanks. Going early E maxing and no W allows you to do that even better, and when you hit an E, have 3 passive stacks, and press R, the guy you're hitting will probably be dead by the time he is out of the stun.

I don't go warmogs in my build btw, but phage/giant's belt, then decide on what to branch. Warmogs is awful if bought too late, and the goal of all «tanky» chars is to be at the frontier between too tanky (meaning you won't do shit, as nobody will care about you with a good reason) and too much DPS (which is why hybrid DPS/defense objects like Wits end are good). Except Singed.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree though, because nobody here seems to have ever tried to max E over W. But having played exclusively Udyr for 1 month (around 150 games with him this last month), and having toyed with all Udyr's build (Tiger-Turtle, Phœnix-Turtle, Phœnix-Bear, Phœnix-Tiger, ...), I can ensure you the most effective for jungle Udyr is Phœnix-Bear. In lane it's Turtle-Tiger though.

On November 16 2011 08:43 koreasilver wrote:
This udyr "discussion" is so facepalm. I can understand why some people wouldn't max bear and max out both tiger and pheonix, but this is the first time I've ever heard someone that maxed turtle after bear. It just doesn't make any sense.

On November 16 2011 08:57 mr_tolkien wrote:

Well, my logic was :
«does not maxing turtle hurts your jungle ?»
no, imbadyr :o
«does maxing bear helps your ganks ?»
yes

By the time the teamfights arrives, you should be around lvl13, meaning 3 extra points after your 1st 2 max anyway. It does indeed «make sense», and I just dont understand why people are so butthurt about what I say >.< It DOES work, turtle doesn't have any use in jungle, because his clears are already so good. You can litteraly counter jungle, clear (twice), and gank (twice), before your first back.

On November 16 2011 08:07 Bluebush wrote:
Every time CLG argues with each other after a game, it's so awkward to listen to. Poor jiji getting blamed for everything.

On November 16 2011 10:21 Blind wrote:

I find it amazing how well jiji takes the whole team blaming him like that. Such a chill guy.

On November 16 2011 10:37 Ryalnos wrote:
Hotshot playing some heal Janna with jiji right now.

Though with Chaox, Xpecial, TheOddOne being the other members of his soloqueue team I'm not sure it'll say much about his skill or the viability of heal...