EPT[Patch 1.0.0.128: Shyvana] General Discussion - Page 52
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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. - Neo, 9:49 KST, Nov 9th | ||
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nyxnyxnyx
Indonesia2978 Posts
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
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overt
United States9006 Posts
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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c.Deadly
United States545 Posts
On November 04 2011 02:13 Doctorbeat wrote: Anyone else here liking Shaco a lot this patch? I've started playing him in normals again, have yet to lose a match with him. The arm time on boxes helps a lot. Though I never really have a set plan for midgame items. Core usually is merc/tabi + wriggle's. I generally try to get triforce first. Can you go full out deeps on Shaco? Like BT's and PD's? Or would Bloodrazor be a better build for full out deeps? What about atmogs or mallet/warmogs? The arm time on boxes wasn't changed - they ended up removing that change after it was in the patch preview. I generally build wriggles + zerks as my core on shaco, then MBR or BC. Check out the Shaco thread, it's one of the best champ threads here. | ||
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
Then the enemy jungler ganks some other lane and you get shit on by the laner "y u never here enemy jungler camps my lane l0l" | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On November 04 2011 02:59 Juicyfruit wrote: What level do you get smite at? Level 2? Isn't that like.. 1 game? You have smite at level 1 I'm pretty sure. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On November 04 2011 02:30 JackDino wrote: Dunno how it is at lvl1 but @ lvl10 I opened longsword+1 and it was fine. At level 10 you can get all the defensive masteries like minion damage reduction and the armor and stuff or the exp mastery. Pretty sure Smite is available at level 1 as well. | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On November 04 2011 00:36 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: Shyvana just isn't broken like Graves. Auto attacking to get a skill faster instead of flat CD sounds fun until you realize it's exactly like xin, graves, and skarner except that it doesn't scale with CDR. All it ends up doing is emphasizing "oh I need to auto minions now" more because you get -3 seconds on the CD with a base CD of 2.5 MINUTES, so if you're losing and can't farm minions well sucks for you. Transforming and pushing people as a dragon sounds fun until you realize that it pushes them about an inch, so charging in from behind isn't worth it and charging in from the front just helps them escape. Oh yeah, and it stuns you upon landing just in case your opponents wanted an easy chance to retaliate or flash away. Yes, I'm a bit jaded. IDK how good she is or not (obviously not blatantly OP) but in general I think her R/fury design has big pointless holes. The only leg she really has to stand on is that, cosmetically, she's the dragon champ everyone was clamoring for. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
On November 04 2011 02:58 overt wrote: My reasons for not jungling are pretty simple. First, I got tired of every game I played jungler being blamed for everything that happened by retards who die in lane. Second, I really prefer the PvP element of laning more than the PvE element of jungling. Third, jungling like legit stresses me out because I always get to a point where I feel like, "k I've cleared all the camps, I can't gank any lanes, I'm too pussy to go invade enemy jungle, wtf do I do now." Being too focused on clearing jungle camps can be somewhat of an impairment. The wolf camp, especially, isn't always worth clearing if the other side of the jungle is prime for ganking. It's a nice place to stop right before going back to shop since you can always clear it no matter how low/oom you are and it's the least likely camp to get ganked at. Not grabbing wolves on respawn is not going to set you back all that much in the grand scheme of things, though this of course doesn`t apply if you`re rushing level 6. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On November 04 2011 03:09 phyvo wrote: Auto attacking to get a skill faster instead of flat CD sounds fun until you realize it's exactly like xin, graves, and skarner except that it doesn't scale with CDR. All it ends up doing is emphasizing "oh I need to auto minions now" more because you get -3 seconds on the CD with a base CD of 2.5 MINUTES, so if you're losing and can't farm minions well sucks for you. Transforming and pushing people as a dragon sounds fun until you realize that it pushes them about an inch, so charging in from behind isn't worth it and charging in from the front just helps them escape. Oh yeah, and it stuns you upon landing just in case your opponents wanted an easy chance to retaliate or flash away. Yes, I'm a bit jaded. IDK how good she is or not (obviously not blatantly OP) but in general I think her R/fury design has big pointless holes. The only leg she really has to stand on is that, cosmetically, she's the dragon champ everyone was clamoring for. I didn't mean to say that like she's useless. I more meant that she isn't so blatantly overpowered that if she is good then it's going to take time for people to discover it like Irelia. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On November 04 2011 03:10 Juicyfruit wrote: Being too focused on clearing jungle camps can be somewhat of an impairment. The wolf camp, especially, isn't always worth clearing if the other side of the jungle is prime for ganking. It's a nice place to stop right before going back to shop since you can always clear it no matter how low/oom you are and it's the least likely camp to get ganked at. Not grabbing wolves on respawn is not going to set you back all that much in the grand scheme of things, though this of course doesn`t apply if you`re rushing level 6. Most of that last point is just an over exaggeration of when I jungle. I don't know why, maybe it's cause I haven't jungled as much as I have laned, but I legitimately find myself getting stressed out and assuming that lanes are completely ungankable and I just end up walking around the map thinking of what I should do next. I've done LoL replays of it before and when I go back and watch it I realize, "hey I could've gone and stolen the enemies wraiths cause he was ganking top right here" or "that would've been an awesome time to gank bottom." But for me, the problem is that I just feel overwhelmed in-game and just end up wasting a lot of time. This doesn't always happen when I jungle but it happens enough for me to add it as a reason I don't usually jungle. Also, up until level 30, I almost exclusively played AD and AP carries. I'm trying to play solo tops, supports, and junglers now but I still really prefer the carry roles. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On November 04 2011 03:10 Juicyfruit wrote: Being too focused on clearing jungle camps can be somewhat of an impairment. The wolf camp, especially, isn't always worth clearing if the other side of the jungle is prime for ganking. It's a nice place to stop right before going back to shop since you can always clear it no matter how low/oom you are and it's the least likely camp to get ganked at. Not grabbing wolves on respawn is not going to set you back all that much in the grand scheme of things, though this of course doesn`t apply if you`re rushing level 6. This is mostly my feelings while jungling as well. After the first 2 or 3 clears (depending on champ), the small camps are mostly not of consequence overall. They're time padding, kill them when you're not warding, ganking, covering lane, getting buffs, getting dragon, or invading their jungle. I don't claim to be the best or most efficient, but it seems to work for me as the characters I jungle on (Riven and Xin mostly) can be real gank threats and let your lane mates win lane. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
1) I know that it's confirmed that the Dragon Form version of her Q applies on-hit effects to all targets hit. How does this interact with Sheen, for which the proc is consumed? Does it apply to only one target, or does a Sheen proc on Dragon Form Q do the bonus damage to all the targets? 2) How does the Dragon Form version of her Q interact with her passive abilities? Does Q reduce its own CD for each target hit, or just for the double hit on the main target? Because that means her AoE damage output could be absurd simply based on the fact that hitting 3-target Qs makes its own CD ludicrously low. I think a lot of Shyvana's power is going to come down to how her lane matchups play out. She's got decent scaling, great baseline survivability, great baseline AoE damage, and because of her ability to proc the melee version of the red slow in an AoE is potentially the best red buff user in the game. She doesn't have the sustain tools that most top laners have (though that's showing itself to not be a problem for other champions like Wukong), but she is a resourceless champion. If she can go into midgame with a decent set of core items, she seems like she can be a pretty big threat. On November 04 2011 03:09 phyvo wrote: Transforming and pushing people as a dragon sounds fun until you realize that it pushes them about an inch, so charging in from behind isn't worth it and charging in from the front just helps them escape. Oh yeah, and it stuns you upon landing just in case your opponents wanted an easy chance to retaliate or flash away. Or, you know, you counter-initiate a fight by shoving a tanky initiator like Galio/Amumu back into their team (at the same time putting you right on top of their squishies). Or you shove an anti-carry out of position. On November 04 2011 03:22 Requizen wrote: This is mostly my feelings while jungling as well. After the first 2 or 3 clears (depending on champ), the small camps are mostly not of consequence overall. They're time padding, kill them when you're not warding, ganking, covering lane, getting buffs, getting dragon, or invading their jungle. I don't claim to be the best or most efficient, but it seems to work for me as the characters I jungle on (Riven and Xin mostly) can be real gank threats and let your lane mates win lane. To be fair, Riven and Xin are bad examples because they are junglers that *can't afford* to just afk-farm jungle, because jungle farm is simply not sufficient to their midgame needs. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On November 04 2011 03:25 TheYango wrote: To be fair, Riven and Xin are bad examples because they are junglers that *can't afford* to just afk-farm jungle, because jungle farm is simply not sufficient to their midgame needs. Yeah, I guess that's more or less why I like playing them more. The "afk farm" junglers aren't as fun to me, I like being out and about and threatening the enemy. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
On November 04 2011 03:18 overt wrote: Most of that last point is just an over exaggeration of when I jungle. I don't know why, maybe it's cause I haven't jungled as much as I have laned, but I legitimately find myself getting stressed out and assuming that lanes are completely ungankable and I just end up walking around the map thinking of what I should do next. I've done LoL replays of it before and when I go back and watch it I realize, "hey I could've gone and stolen the enemies wraiths cause he was ganking top right here" or "that would've been an awesome time to gank bottom." But for me, the problem is that I just feel overwhelmed in-game and just end up wasting a lot of time. This doesn't always happen when I jungle but it happens enough for me to add it as a reason I don't usually jungle. Also, up until level 30, I almost exclusively played AD and AP carries. I'm trying to play solo tops, supports, and junglers now but I still really prefer the carry roles. I think wraith stealing is the easiest way to get out of this rut, but requires some planning ahead. Two wraith steals and the gold differential between you and their jungler is almost 300g. It adds up ridiculously fast and for junglers like Riven, almost mandatory in order to keep up on gold. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On November 04 2011 03:25 TheYango wrote: Some questions about Shyvana's Q in Dragon form: 1) I know that it's confirmed that the Dragon Form version of her Q applies on-hit effects to all targets hit. How does this interact with Sheen, for which the proc is consumed? Does it apply to only one target, or does a Sheen proc on Dragon Form Q do the bonus damage to all the targets? 2) How does the Dragon Form version of her Q interact with her passive abilities? Does Q reduce its own CD for each target hit, or just for the double hit on the main target? Because that means her AoE damage output could be absurd simply based on the fact that hitting 3-target Qs makes its own CD ludicrously low. I think a lot of Shyvana's power is going to come down to how her lane matchups play out. She's got decent scaling, great baseline survivability, great baseline AoE damage, and because of her ability to proc the melee version of the red slow in an AoE is potentially the best red buff user in the game. She doesn't have the sustain tools that most top laners have (though that's showing itself to not be a problem for other champions like Wukong), but she is a resourceless champion. If she can go into midgame with a decent set of core items, she seems like she can be a pretty big threat. As for point 1, I believe Sheen procs hit all enemies but I'm not 100% on it. I know that Wriggle's proc can hit multiple minions if you happen to be Qing a bunch of them while in dragon form. I'll test it later if no one else has but I'm about to go out for a bit so... For point 2, no it doesn't. At least I'm pretty sure it doesn't. I haven't noticed it doing that in my games, and there were a few times when I used Q to farm a bunch of minions and still had a pretty full CD on it. So no, I don't think her Q's AoE can reset itself just her regular autos. I think if you buy Wriggle's or a bunch of health pots you can be okay. She does a lot of damage especially once she gets dragon. She's also pretty damn tanky. I think her strengths are outside of laning and in teamfights where she does a lot of AoE and is pretty tanky even without items. You can just run into the entire enemy team with dragon and draw a lot of threat while also dishing out significant damage. I think she's really good the only question is if she can preform well enough in lane not to get behind other top laners. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 04 2011 03:29 Requizen wrote: Yeah, I guess that's more or less why I like playing them more. The "afk farm" junglers aren't as fun to me, I like being out and about and threatening the enemy. The thing about Riven and Xin is that they're sort of all-in on being able to gank. You have to be able to get ganking gold to actually make them worthwhile because they really do need lane-level farm to function later, so you need to get kill gold to make up the difference. Compare this to someone like Rammus, who is one of the strongest gank threats in the game, but if the situation becomes prohibitive of your ability to gank (lanes are pushed, enemy ward coverage is tight and you haven't gotten pink wards/oracles yet, etc.), it's not as damaging for you to have to camp out. This makes Riven and Xin bad examples for the ganking/camp-clearing tradeoff. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On November 04 2011 01:26 Tooplark wrote: Fiddlesticks, Master Yi and Nunu all can jungle acceptably at level 1. Standard junglers can as well, but you have to adapt the route and will be somewhat behind other junglers. Some junglers, like Olaf, straight up shouldn't even try because 1) it sets him back too far and 2) he needs blue buff too much. yi's level 1 jungle is garbage, duo lane for a few levels and then go jungle and it'll go much more smoothly | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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