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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. - Neo, 9:49 KST, Nov 9th |
On November 03 2011 23:51 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 23:30 AwayFromLife wrote:
Do you think Udyr is worth the IP? I see him played a lot at high level, and I think he's got a lot of flexibility (build AP, AD, or Tank; can jungle or lane), so he can fit in a lot of roles, but I haven't played him at all, so I dunno. Right now one of the best junglers in game and not too shabby in solo lane.Clear speed is lightening fast,doesn't need wriggles,fast as hell and ganks are pretty easy to execute. Udyr is my hero of choice when I go on a loosing streak and have to get that elo back. EDIT:One thing you should know tho.Someone among Riots staff thought that it would be a smart idea to put dodge runes(the best yellow choice for udyr imo by far) up for 820 IP or something like that.Like,what the fuck -_-
Trying to understand the logic behind rune pricing is a recipe for a massive headache and eventually only makes you dumber as you have to try understand really dumb decisions.
Even more so when it comes to junglers, the role which is IMO hardest to pickup in the first place due to peer pressure and pure mechanics. Anyone can go mid lane and aa minions down, anyone can go botlane and afk in the brush as support, so long as you bought some wards. Not anyone can go into the jungle and even survive first clear or do it in a time that doesn't set you horribly behind.
Massive cockblock for newer players and non level 30s.
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On November 04 2011 00:11 Sandster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 23:53 AwayFromLife wrote:On November 03 2011 23:45 Sandster wrote:On November 03 2011 23:30 AwayFromLife wrote:
Do you think Udyr is worth the IP? I see him played a lot at high level, and I think he's got a lot of flexibility (build AP, AD, or Tank; can jungle or lane), so he can fit in a lot of roles, but I haven't played him at all, so I dunno. He's one of the best champions in the game. Only thing is he uses some weird rune pages (pure AD red/quints for tiger, and full AS reds + move or AS quints for phoenix) that few other champions use. The rune page difference for phoenix Udyr jungle is "what the hell this guy is absolutely awful" without the right page, and "my champions is fucking broken" when you put them in. So would you recommend holding off on getting him until I have the runes to support him? I'm sitting on an asston of IP and want to get my money's worth from whatever I buy, so I'm just indecisive at this point. I want a good jungler, and a good tanky dps that isn't really too squishy (tired of running in and getting obliterated), who can hold his own in a fight, so I figured Udyr was a good pick. Well, a standard jungling page is 3 armor pen quints + 6-8 AS reds (the rest being armor pen). This page works very well for champions like Warwick, Trundle, and Nocturne. So you will have to buy AS reds anyway to jungle. -Warwick: Very tanky, but not much of a presence before 6. Amazing ganks post-6 and great team utility. -Trundle: Tanky, pillar is so good, but team reliant (meaning it's not as easy to carry in solo queue as with WW/Udyr) -Rammus: Ridiculous ganks, great tank/initiator/chaser, but harder to get farm on. -Nocturne: Amazing ult, can build tanky or dps, but not naturally as tanky as Udyr/WW/Rammus. -Lee: Very good ganks and high mobility, but late game isn't as good as the others unless he really gets fed. So the choice is ultimately up to you. I personally would invest in an extra rune page for Udyr (the bundle really is worth it if you plan on playing the game for any period of time), but all the other choices are pretty good and with slightly different playstyles.
Meh, I don't like WW or Trundle, and Lee is banned too much for me to pick him up. As for Noc and Rammus, I have too many duo/team queue friends that like them for me to buy them and play them. I think Udyr is a good choice. Not banned a lot, and flexible enough to fill a lot of comps.
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On November 04 2011 00:56 AwayFromLife wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 00:11 Sandster wrote:On November 03 2011 23:53 AwayFromLife wrote:On November 03 2011 23:45 Sandster wrote:On November 03 2011 23:30 AwayFromLife wrote:
Do you think Udyr is worth the IP? I see him played a lot at high level, and I think he's got a lot of flexibility (build AP, AD, or Tank; can jungle or lane), so he can fit in a lot of roles, but I haven't played him at all, so I dunno. He's one of the best champions in the game. Only thing is he uses some weird rune pages (pure AD red/quints for tiger, and full AS reds + move or AS quints for phoenix) that few other champions use. The rune page difference for phoenix Udyr jungle is "what the hell this guy is absolutely awful" without the right page, and "my champions is fucking broken" when you put them in. So would you recommend holding off on getting him until I have the runes to support him? I'm sitting on an asston of IP and want to get my money's worth from whatever I buy, so I'm just indecisive at this point. I want a good jungler, and a good tanky dps that isn't really too squishy (tired of running in and getting obliterated), who can hold his own in a fight, so I figured Udyr was a good pick. Well, a standard jungling page is 3 armor pen quints + 6-8 AS reds (the rest being armor pen). This page works very well for champions like Warwick, Trundle, and Nocturne. So you will have to buy AS reds anyway to jungle. -Warwick: Very tanky, but not much of a presence before 6. Amazing ganks post-6 and great team utility. -Trundle: Tanky, pillar is so good, but team reliant (meaning it's not as easy to carry in solo queue as with WW/Udyr) -Rammus: Ridiculous ganks, great tank/initiator/chaser, but harder to get farm on. -Nocturne: Amazing ult, can build tanky or dps, but not naturally as tanky as Udyr/WW/Rammus. -Lee: Very good ganks and high mobility, but late game isn't as good as the others unless he really gets fed. So the choice is ultimately up to you. I personally would invest in an extra rune page for Udyr (the bundle really is worth it if you plan on playing the game for any period of time), but all the other choices are pretty good and with slightly different playstyles. Meh, I don't like WW or Trundle, and Lee is banned too much for me to pick him up. As for Noc and Rammus, I have too many duo/team queue friends that like them for me to buy them and play them. I think Udyr is a good choice. Not banned a lot, and flexible enough to fill a lot of comps.
#1 bans should be #1 buy. Because you have to be able to secure them when not banned.
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On November 04 2011 01:04 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 00:56 AwayFromLife wrote:On November 04 2011 00:11 Sandster wrote:On November 03 2011 23:53 AwayFromLife wrote:On November 03 2011 23:45 Sandster wrote:On November 03 2011 23:30 AwayFromLife wrote:
Do you think Udyr is worth the IP? I see him played a lot at high level, and I think he's got a lot of flexibility (build AP, AD, or Tank; can jungle or lane), so he can fit in a lot of roles, but I haven't played him at all, so I dunno. He's one of the best champions in the game. Only thing is he uses some weird rune pages (pure AD red/quints for tiger, and full AS reds + move or AS quints for phoenix) that few other champions use. The rune page difference for phoenix Udyr jungle is "what the hell this guy is absolutely awful" without the right page, and "my champions is fucking broken" when you put them in. So would you recommend holding off on getting him until I have the runes to support him? I'm sitting on an asston of IP and want to get my money's worth from whatever I buy, so I'm just indecisive at this point. I want a good jungler, and a good tanky dps that isn't really too squishy (tired of running in and getting obliterated), who can hold his own in a fight, so I figured Udyr was a good pick. Well, a standard jungling page is 3 armor pen quints + 6-8 AS reds (the rest being armor pen). This page works very well for champions like Warwick, Trundle, and Nocturne. So you will have to buy AS reds anyway to jungle. -Warwick: Very tanky, but not much of a presence before 6. Amazing ganks post-6 and great team utility. -Trundle: Tanky, pillar is so good, but team reliant (meaning it's not as easy to carry in solo queue as with WW/Udyr) -Rammus: Ridiculous ganks, great tank/initiator/chaser, but harder to get farm on. -Nocturne: Amazing ult, can build tanky or dps, but not naturally as tanky as Udyr/WW/Rammus. -Lee: Very good ganks and high mobility, but late game isn't as good as the others unless he really gets fed. So the choice is ultimately up to you. I personally would invest in an extra rune page for Udyr (the bundle really is worth it if you plan on playing the game for any period of time), but all the other choices are pretty good and with slightly different playstyles. Meh, I don't like WW or Trundle, and Lee is banned too much for me to pick him up. As for Noc and Rammus, I have too many duo/team queue friends that like them for me to buy them and play them. I think Udyr is a good choice. Not banned a lot, and flexible enough to fill a lot of comps. #1 bans should be #1 buy. Because you have to be able to secure them when not banned.
I think that's kind of bad logic. If he's usually banned, I won't have a lot of experience playing him. When he is available for play, I won't want to play him because I'd be better as a champ that I'm good and experienced with. I'd rather be great as a good champion I can play 90% of the time than ok with a broken champion I can only play 10% of the time.
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On November 04 2011 00:40 daemir wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 23:51 TheKefka wrote:On November 03 2011 23:30 AwayFromLife wrote:
Do you think Udyr is worth the IP? I see him played a lot at high level, and I think he's got a lot of flexibility (build AP, AD, or Tank; can jungle or lane), so he can fit in a lot of roles, but I haven't played him at all, so I dunno. Right now one of the best junglers in game and not too shabby in solo lane.Clear speed is lightening fast,doesn't need wriggles,fast as hell and ganks are pretty easy to execute. Udyr is my hero of choice when I go on a loosing streak and have to get that elo back. EDIT:One thing you should know tho.Someone among Riots staff thought that it would be a smart idea to put dodge runes(the best yellow choice for udyr imo by far) up for 820 IP or something like that.Like,what the fuck -_- Trying to understand the logic behind rune pricing is a recipe for a massive headache and eventually only makes you dumber as you have to try understand really dumb decisions. Even more so when it comes to junglers, the role which is IMO hardest to pickup in the first place due to peer pressure and pure mechanics. Anyone can go mid lane and aa minions down, anyone can go botlane and afk in the brush as support, so long as you bought some wards. Not anyone can go into the jungle and even survive first clear or do it in a time that doesn't set you horribly behind. Massive cockblock for newer players and non level 30s.
Jungling for the first time is like playing a game of Starcraft with only one worker to start. There are so many vital skills you simply do not have and it's crippling.
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I played on my low lvl acc (0 runes, missing vital masteries) and I couldn't even kill blue WITH a leash.
It feels more like starting with 1 worker and the opponent 6 pools you.
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On November 04 2011 01:04 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 00:56 AwayFromLife wrote:On November 04 2011 00:11 Sandster wrote:On November 03 2011 23:53 AwayFromLife wrote:On November 03 2011 23:45 Sandster wrote:On November 03 2011 23:30 AwayFromLife wrote:
Do you think Udyr is worth the IP? I see him played a lot at high level, and I think he's got a lot of flexibility (build AP, AD, or Tank; can jungle or lane), so he can fit in a lot of roles, but I haven't played him at all, so I dunno. He's one of the best champions in the game. Only thing is he uses some weird rune pages (pure AD red/quints for tiger, and full AS reds + move or AS quints for phoenix) that few other champions use. The rune page difference for phoenix Udyr jungle is "what the hell this guy is absolutely awful" without the right page, and "my champions is fucking broken" when you put them in. So would you recommend holding off on getting him until I have the runes to support him? I'm sitting on an asston of IP and want to get my money's worth from whatever I buy, so I'm just indecisive at this point. I want a good jungler, and a good tanky dps that isn't really too squishy (tired of running in and getting obliterated), who can hold his own in a fight, so I figured Udyr was a good pick. Well, a standard jungling page is 3 armor pen quints + 6-8 AS reds (the rest being armor pen). This page works very well for champions like Warwick, Trundle, and Nocturne. So you will have to buy AS reds anyway to jungle. -Warwick: Very tanky, but not much of a presence before 6. Amazing ganks post-6 and great team utility. -Trundle: Tanky, pillar is so good, but team reliant (meaning it's not as easy to carry in solo queue as with WW/Udyr) -Rammus: Ridiculous ganks, great tank/initiator/chaser, but harder to get farm on. -Nocturne: Amazing ult, can build tanky or dps, but not naturally as tanky as Udyr/WW/Rammus. -Lee: Very good ganks and high mobility, but late game isn't as good as the others unless he really gets fed. So the choice is ultimately up to you. I personally would invest in an extra rune page for Udyr (the bundle really is worth it if you plan on playing the game for any period of time), but all the other choices are pretty good and with slightly different playstyles. Meh, I don't like WW or Trundle, and Lee is banned too much for me to pick him up. As for Noc and Rammus, I have too many duo/team queue friends that like them for me to buy them and play them. I think Udyr is a good choice. Not banned a lot, and flexible enough to fill a lot of comps. #1 bans should be #1 buy. Because you have to be able to secure them when not banned.
Except if you don't own them and you don't want people playing them you should ban them yourself. While swapping is good, I often feel like the captain should be the person with the most champions rather than the highest elo.
I also remember a mode in DotA where it'd random a portion of the hero pool and you had to pick a team based on that. I think having a pool of around 30-40 champions would be pretty good. It'd certainly make for some interesting compositions where you could ban out all the standard AP carries or AD carries or something and then have to adapt around it.
On November 04 2011 01:15 daemir wrote:
I played on my low lvl acc (0 runes, missing vital masteries) and I couldn't even kill blue WITH a leash.
It feels more like starting with 1 worker and the opponent 6 pools you.
That just depends on who you're jungling. I think nunu can level 1 jungle without an issue as long as you open cloth 5 since you don't have runes or masterys.
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Fiddlesticks, Master Yi and Nunu all can jungle acceptably at level 1.
Standard junglers can as well, but you have to adapt the route and will be somewhat behind other junglers.
Some junglers, like Olaf, straight up shouldn't even try because 1) it sets him back too far and 2) he needs blue buff too much.
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Warwick with cloth + 5 jungles from level 1 like a goddamn boss.
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On November 04 2011 00:40 daemir wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 23:51 TheKefka wrote:On November 03 2011 23:30 AwayFromLife wrote:
Do you think Udyr is worth the IP? I see him played a lot at high level, and I think he's got a lot of flexibility (build AP, AD, or Tank; can jungle or lane), so he can fit in a lot of roles, but I haven't played him at all, so I dunno. Right now one of the best junglers in game and not too shabby in solo lane.Clear speed is lightening fast,doesn't need wriggles,fast as hell and ganks are pretty easy to execute. Udyr is my hero of choice when I go on a loosing streak and have to get that elo back. EDIT:One thing you should know tho.Someone among Riots staff thought that it would be a smart idea to put dodge runes(the best yellow choice for udyr imo by far) up for 820 IP or something like that.Like,what the fuck -_- Trying to understand the logic behind rune pricing is a recipe for a massive headache and eventually only makes you dumber as you have to try understand really dumb decisions. Even more so when it comes to junglers, the role which is IMO hardest to pickup in the first place due to peer pressure and pure mechanics. Anyone can go mid lane and aa minions down, anyone can go botlane and afk in the brush as support, so long as you bought some wards. Not anyone can go into the jungle and even survive first clear or do it in a time that doesn't set you horribly behind. Massive cockblock for newer players and non level 30s.
I can deal with dodge runes being so expensive (even when my two favourite champs love dodge runes). What I can't accept is how rune pages cost 6300 IP. Fuck that shit.
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I believe you need 3 exp mastery points to ding 2 off blue.
But every jungle can go through at level 1: just do a modified fast 6 and back before you do blue.
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On November 04 2011 01:20 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 01:15 daemir wrote:
I played on my low lvl acc (0 runes, missing vital masteries) and I couldn't even kill blue WITH a leash.
It feels more like starting with 1 worker and the opponent 6 pools you. That just depends on who you're jungling. I think nunu can level 1 jungle without an issue as long as you open cloth 5 since you don't have runes or masterys.
Humongous emphasis on the word "can". I, an experienced jungler, can jungle with Nunu at level 1 without issue. The same can not be said of a newbie jungler. There are a million things that have become pure instinct/muscle memory for me which are complete mysteries to someone starting for the first time.
I've recently had a few friends ask me for help because they wanted to learn to jungle. When you get asked questions like, "do I kill the lizards first at blue?" you realize just how huge the learning curve for jungling really is.
On November 04 2011 01:37 Two_DoWn wrote:
I believe you need 3 exp mastery points to ding 2 off blue.
But every jungle can go through at level 1: just do a modified fast 6 and back before you do blue.
You only need 1/4 to level off blue/mini-golems. This is because you need to exceed 280 exp to hit level 2, but you get exactly 280 exp from those camps without runes/masteries/Zilean. You need 3/4 to hit 3 off of the small camps if you aren't starting blue.
There've been reports that you no longer need to exceed 280 exp to hit level 2 and that hitting the exact value is sufficient, but I haven't tested those claims.
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Anyone else here liking Shaco a lot this patch?
I've started playing him in normals again, have yet to lose a match with him.
The arm time on boxes helps a lot. Though I never really have a set plan for midgame items. Core usually is merc/tabi + wriggle's. I generally try to get triforce first. Can you go full out deeps on Shaco? Like BT's and PD's? Or would Bloodrazor be a better build for full out deeps? What about atmogs or mallet/warmogs?
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Anybody should be able to follow a guide to jungle Nunu from level one. I doubt 99.9% of the playerbase has the creative mentality to come up with the next big thing. We're all just sheep following what works and we enjoy it.
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That being said, learning to jungle will exponentially increase your overall skill as a player. No, you don't learn last hitting or lane matchups better, but your overall map awareness and game sense will improve dramatically, leading to better overall decision making. You'll learn to gauge which lanes are dominant, which are lost causes, and which ones you should focus in; you learn enemy paths and likely gank timings, so you can point out cv's; you learn how to dictate when to maneuver for dragon. You'll still come across retards who don't follow pings, but most people will realize when they have competent person who makes solid calls.
I'm willing to bet most people who bitch at junglers are those who do not jungle themselves, and have a helmet strapped on tight while tunnel visioning their own lane.
A solo queue jungler who only farms/ganks and can't coordinate team objectives will simply not do as well.
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why would you cloth+5pot on warwick when you could go like longsword and still be >70% for almost your whole route lol
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United States47024 Posts
On November 04 2011 02:23 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
why would you cloth+5pot on warwick when you could go like longsword and still be >70% for almost your whole route lol
Because the discussion was about jungling at summoner level 1, where that's not true?
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A level 1 warwick is lacking compared to level 30:
~15% attack speed (~20% if you use AS blue instead of MR)
~21 armor pen
3-7 damage to minions
13 armor
exp gain
buff duration
regen
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On November 04 2011 02:25 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 02:23 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
why would you cloth+5pot on warwick when you could go like longsword and still be >70% for almost your whole route lol Because the discussion was about jungling at summoner level 1, where that's not true?
Dunno how it is at lvl1 but @ lvl10 I opened longsword+1 and it was fine.
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At level 1 you pretty much are gonna do a wolves>golems route because you're weak + unlikely leash, so I think any opener on WW could accomplish that.*
*Even thought smite isn't available at level 1, but you get the point.
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EPT
