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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. - Neo, 9:49 KST, Nov 9th | ||
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ArC_man
United States2798 Posts
On November 03 2011 14:43 RogerX wrote: Thanks for the answers  It makes sense and most of my speculation was right.Is there any hard counter to Sion or will it always be hard CC? It's worth it to rush QSS on most AD carries after your first big item against anyone with that type of CC (long ranged/single target/fairly long duration like Sion/Fiddle). | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
It's there because it's almost never bad. Doublestun lane relies on shitting on the other combo bot, or they're done. That needs coordination. AD mid means the enemy who runs AP mid has a slight advantage in early dragon fights/ganks cause of moar burst. In general AP carries gank better than AD carries. Conclusion: The current "meta" is good in solo q where it's most important that everyone can play... solo. =P | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On November 03 2011 16:23 TheYango wrote: Not even. You're just looking for specific matchups in both lanes to make your farm work out. Some of those favorable matchups are surprisingly common (e.g. Kassadin mid gets royally shit on by almost any ranged AD, even some of the weaker ones), it's just people don't think to pick for those matchups. Again, 99% of people in this game don't know how to pick/assign champions. Random aside: does anyone else think that the banning system as it exists for competitive play could be expanded on? As it stands, having a single banning phase before picks makes bans less strategic and more "lets ban what's most OP/shit we don't want to deal with". Which is fine for solo queue, but in arranged 5s/tournament play you're basically blindly guessing what your opponents want to use. Personally, I like the 2-phased ban system that exists in DotA competitive play--after each team has made 3 picks, there's a second banning phase where each team bans an additional 2 heroes. This allows for you to make strategic bans directed at the type of team-comp your opponent appears to be going for with their initial 3 picks, and makes banning on the whole more interesting, IMO. Without making it look like LoL is "ripping off" of DotA, I think the two phase champion bans is a brilliant idea. Not to mention we need 3 (maybe 4 soon) champion bans per team. Edit: to elaborate more, the 2 bans per team all at the beginning is a really shitty in the sense that there's zero thinking involved. I agree with you that a large majority of people have no idea how to ban/pick to make a strong team comp. As it is right now, people are just banning whatever the fotm is or what they don't want to deal with. I would say that most champions have a strong counter but people just don't think enough during champion select. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On November 03 2011 16:32 NeoIllusions wrote: Uh, I wouldn't rush QSS, per se. Maybe as a 3rd or 4th big items maybe. Early on, you just need to position yourself well enough not to get raped by CC. Late game, if you're the carry, you definitely need QSS because enemies will Flash just to get close enough to chain CC and kill you. Also most people fail horribly at knowing when to go banshees and when to go QSS. Banshees is way stronger in poking scenarios (moar buffer) and vs huge, unavoidable burst. Think Talon/Akali/Kassadin. QSS is way stronger vs that ONE FUCKING CC that will mean you die if it's being flashed in your face. Fiddle fear being the best example prolly. | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On November 03 2011 16:34 r.Evo wrote: Also most people fail horribly at knowing when to go banshees and when to go QSS. Banshees is way stronger in poking scenarios (moar buffer) and vs huge, unavoidable burst. Think Talon/Akali/Kassadin. QSS is way stronger vs that ONE FUCKING CC that will mean you die if it's being flashed in your face. Fiddle fear being the best example prolly. QSS, Banshee's and FoN. I remember bly asking about what to get on Irelia (Banshee's or FoN) about 3-4 months ago. Thinking about on it now, it shouldn't even be a question. zz Buy items that fit the situation. | ||
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On November 03 2011 16:38 I_Love_Bacon wrote: Did something happen to Annie to make her fall off the face of the Earth? I just played her and forgot how easy she was to bully people with move quints and boots opening. I know she isn't at the top of the ap charts anymore given some of the buffs to others, but I just think it's odd that I really never see her anymore compared to almost every other ap champion. She's still stronk, just out of flavor atm. I think her biggest issue is that she doesn't have any form of instant CC. Compared to one of the more popular current AP champions, Brand, she has to charge up her stun and it isn't as instantaneous when you really need it (e.g. to stop a gank during laning phase). There weren't any nerfs dealt to her, it's just players in general moved on to a different set of AP champions to cycle through. | ||
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rob.au
1087 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On November 03 2011 17:01 rob.au wrote: There aren't that many heroes you want to play annie against mid. If you look at the current "strong" ap heroes...sion/kass/morg/cass/brand/zilean she doesn't do great against any of them. She does fine against sion and kass if you know what you're doing imo... For sion you just play safe and pop his shield whenever he tries to harass. Against Kass you need to try to get an early advantage with your range advantage before his Q harass becomes too strong. | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
Now, the balancing and strategy of this game have quite a ways to go to achieve the incredibly depth that DotA has in that phase, but just implementing that draft style will help to push it in the right direction. Your initial bans will probably still be targeted at players/standout champs but there's nothing wrong with that, it's just a solid way of hiding your intentions while making good use of a ban. Just have to be careful that limiting the pool of a role isn't working against you(thus why @ the DotA2 international with a limited pool, champs like AM/Spectre who were so far ahead of other available carries were still nowhere near 100% bans, risk vs reward bans/picks phase). | ||
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ArC_man
United States2798 Posts
On November 03 2011 16:32 NeoIllusions wrote: Uh, I wouldn't rush QSS, per se. Maybe as a 3rd or 4th big items maybe. Early on, you just need to position yourself well enough not to get raped by CC. Late game, if you're the carry, you definitely need QSS because enemies will Flash just to get close enough to chain CC and kill you. Well usually I go something like Wriggles->Triforce (big item) -> QSS with Ezreal if the other team has a Fiddle or Sion (or even someone like Ryze). I dunno I only play Ez though, lol. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 03 2011 17:07 Ryuu314 wrote: She does fine against sion and kass if you know what you're doing imo... For sion you just play safe and pop his shield whenever he tries to harass. Against Kass you need to try to get an early advantage with your range advantage before his Q harass becomes too strong. You can't pop Sion's shield without blowing both your spells (which means he attritions your mana instead of your health), and you still have no good way of dealing with his ability to just blow up the creeps and leave, since your wave-clearing ability is much poorer than his. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
Hate that fucker. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On November 03 2011 17:16 TheYango wrote: You can't pop Sion's shield without blowing both your spells (which means he attritions your mana instead of your health), and you still have no good way of dealing with his ability to just blow up the creeps and leave, since your wave-clearing ability is much poorer than his. Iunno, I feel that Annie should be able to do fine against Sion in the early levels and get a strong enough lead especially if you have a jungler that can give up blue very early. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 03 2011 17:42 Ryuu314 wrote: Iunno, I feel that Annie should be able to do fine against Sion in the early levels and get a strong enough lead especially if you have a jungler that can give up blue very early. The "if your jungler can give up blue buff" is pretty silly simply because if you both have blue, 90% of AP v AP matchups stalemate, and if you have blue and he doesn't you crush him 90% of the time, regardless of what AP champions are involved. Sion vs Annie isn't really an exception to this. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On November 03 2011 16:32 r.Evo wrote: The whole tanky top, ap mid ad/support bot isn't used by everyone because it's good. It's there because it's almost never bad. No, it's there because people refuse to play anything other than what the highest elo players do, because if the majority doesn't do it, it's bad. It's also why there are so many underplayed champs and fotm champs, if no one plays them they are obviously bad. | ||
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ihasaKAROT
Netherlands4730 Posts
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
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shinarit
Hungary900 Posts
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