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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. - Neo, 9:49 KST, Nov 9th | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
Garen: auto -> slight delay -> Q hits -> auto Trundle: auto -> Q -> slight delay -> auto Garen's Q just has that little thing where he does a flip or some shit so the damage isn't instantaneous like a lot of on-hit attacks. That explains why his auto afterwards comes faster after the Q damage. | ||
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Phrost
United States4008 Posts
On November 03 2011 00:47 Shikyo wrote: No that's not what I mean, Garen's is the only one with which you can do auto -> Q -> auto instantly after. All others have delay before the auto after the Q according to my tests. Nobody has a delay, maybe you're smoking something really good. The animations always cancel and the next attack comes out as fast as the "on next hit"'s attack can. Maybe some of them are slower but there is no delay on any of them. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On November 03 2011 00:55 Phrost wrote: Nobody has a delay, maybe you're smoking something really good. The animations always cancel and the next attack comes out as fast as the "on next hit"'s attack can. Maybe some of them are slower but there is no delay on any of them. I mean the attack after the onhit attack........... On November 03 2011 00:53 Juicyfruit wrote: It`s not really a significant difference. Garen: auto -> slight delay -> Q hits -> auto Trundle: auto -> Q -> slight delay -> auto Garen's Q just has that little thing where he does a flip or some shit so the damage isn't instantaneous like a lot of on-hit attacks. That explains why his auto afterwards comes faster after the Q damage. Hey someone understood! But with Garen it only comes out instantly if you actually right click at the right timing, if you let it auto it has a delay o.O But so that means that Shyvanas Q will not act like garens? | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 03 2011 00:55 Shikyo wrote: I mean the attack after the onhit attack........... Autoattack timer resets have nothing to do with the attack after. The whole point is that you cancel out of the previous attack animation immediately into the on-hit, and skip the backswing on the original autoattack. It doesn't somehow cancel quickly into the next autoattack for you. The only reason Garen's feels immediate is because Decisive Strike has a really good animation (or at least, an animation with pretty much no backswing), so it feels like you immediately get your next autoattack. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On November 03 2011 00:58 TheYango wrote: Autoattack timer resets have nothing to do with the attack after. The whole point is that you cancel out of the previous attack animation immediately into the on-hit, and skip the backswing on the original autoattack. It doesn't somehow cancel quickly into the next autoattack for you. The only reason Garen's feels immediate is because Decisive Strike has a really good animation, so it feels like you immediately get your next autoattack. Huh? No... I think I'll record a video as you guys don't get it. | ||
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Phrost
United States4008 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 03 2011 01:00 Shikyo wrote: Huh? No... I think I'll record a video as you guys don't get it. The point I'm trying to get across is that mechanically, on-hit procs don't have anything to do with the attack after. The "timer reset" component happens at the beginning of the skill, so anything happening at the end of the skill has to do with how good the animation is/how you're cancelling out of the on-hit proc skill. Anything that makes Decisive Strike special in that regard is specific to Decisive Strike. | ||
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Sabin010
United States1892 Posts
On November 03 2011 00:58 TheYango wrote: Autoattack timer resets have nothing to do with the attack after. The whole point is that you cancel out of the previous attack animation immediately into the on-hit, and skip the backswing on the original autoattack. It doesn't somehow cancel quickly into the next autoattack for you. The only reason Garen's feels immediate is because Decisive Strike has a really good animation (or at least, an animation with pretty much no backswing), so it feels like you immediately get your next autoattack. Garen can auto attack then immediately q and then you just go back to normal attacks. This is how you can tell the difference between noob Garens and experienced Garens. Noobs just qe when experienced Garens know auto attack q e does much more damage in almost the same time frame. Edit: That one auto attack can be the difference between ignite ult killing the guy or knowing you're not going to have enough burst to kill the guy. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On November 03 2011 01:06 Sabin010 wrote: Garen can auto attack then immediately q and then you just go back to normal attacks. This is how you can tell the difference between noob Garens and experienced Garens. Noobs just qe when experienced Garens know auto attack q e does much more damage in almost the same time frame. You can't always get in range to auto Q E. The Q speed buff is pretty significant in many cases. Obviously if you are already standing next to the enemy and still don't auto > Q then you are bad. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 03 2011 01:06 Sabin010 wrote: Edit: That one auto attack can be the difference between ignite ult killing the guy or knowing you're not going to have enough burst to kill the guy. That one autoattack can also the be the difference between ignite ult killing the guy, and him having a half second window to flash away. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Oh holy shit is that video fucked up, well still you can see that I attack THREE times inside a second with attack time of 0.644! | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 03 2011 01:21 Shikyo wrote: Oh holy shit is that video fucked up, well still you can see that I attack THREE times inside a second with attack time of 0.644! Ok, I don't see anything weird there, other than the fact that Decisive Strike has basically no backswing, and instead has a delay while Garen is doing that flip. I don't see how any of this is inconsistent with what I've said. Trundle's Q mechanically works the same way, it just doesn't achieve the same effect because of how the weird bite animation for Q is different. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On November 03 2011 01:21 Shikyo wrote: + Show Spoiler + Well I've been winning every single solotop vs melee with Garen by doing auto-Q-auto to get the enemy to 40% their HP when they go for their first lasthit, people seriously don't know this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlu5JxweAe4 Oh holy shit is that video fucked up, well still you can see that I attack THREE times inside a second with attack time of 0.644! I see 3 attacks in almost 2 seconds, not .644. | ||
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Phrost
United States4008 Posts
On November 03 2011 01:28 TheYango wrote: Ok, I don't see anything weird there, other than the fact that Decisive Strike has basically no backswing, and instead has a delay while Garen is doing that flip. I don't see how any of this is inconsistent with what I've said. Trundle's Q mechanically works the same way, it just doesn't achieve the same effect because of how the weird bite animation for Q is different. This basically explains everything. It might feel like garen attacks faster but its actually because his animation is balls and sucks against certain other melee champions (try to decisive strike singed when he's trying to toss you. 100% chance of both of them going off and garen being completely fucked) | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On November 03 2011 01:28 TheYango wrote: Ok, I don't see anything weird there, other than the fact that Decisive Strike has basically no backswing, and instead has a delay while Garen is doing that flip. I don't see how any of this is inconsistent with what I've said. Trundle's Q mechanically works the same way, it just doesn't achieve the same effect because of how the weird bite animation for Q is different. And the explanation for it having a normal delay when you don't seperately click right after deceive is? As I said according to my tests, Deceive is the only onhit effect after which you can attack instantly by clicking at the right time. It's a normal delay if you don't right click at the correct time. Why on earth would you need to click at the right time if that's how it normally functions? -_- And why is it the only one that changes depending on when you right click after it? Anyway I guess the point is, Shyvana doesn't have his onhit instantly cancel either. Too bad. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On November 03 2011 01:32 JackDino wrote: I see 3 attacks in almost 2 seconds, not .644. You trolling son? The first hit lands at the beginning of 0:06 (Youtube timer), and he begins walking away before 0:07. How is that even close to 2 seconds? | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Really, I even give you a video and still -.- I guess I'll just be happy about instantly dealing 320 damage at lvl 1 and winning every solotop as no one will copy me. | ||
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On November 03 2011 01:00 Phrost wrote: Does anyone know if Startale is playing on the korean servers (if there are any) or the NA ones? I just solo q'd into someone named StarTale Mafa who was speaking korean in champ select Seen Chaox running into their AD+Support on his stream. Means they currently play on NA. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On November 03 2011 01:42 Shikyo wrote: 0.644 attack timer means 1.544 second delay in between attacks, now okay I guess that whole thing MAYBE took 1.544 seconds but even so it's clear that decisive strike canceled the attack timer. Really, I even give you a video and still -.- I guess I'll just be happy about instantly dealing 320 damage at lvl 1 and winning every solotop as no one will copy me. Until someone walks into lane with 70 armor and 5 pots, anyway :> | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On November 03 2011 01:42 Shikyo wrote: 0.644 attack timer means 1.544 second delay in between attacks, now okay I guess that whole thing MAYBE took 1.544 seconds but even so it's clear that decisive strike canceled the attack timer. Really, I even give you a video and still -.- I guess I'll just be happy about instantly dealing 320 damage at lvl 1 and winning every solotop as no one will copy me. Now go get a vid of Nasus doing the same thing and note how it's exactly the same. | ||
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