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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. - Neo, 9:49 KST, Nov 9th | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 03 2011 03:10 Southlight wrote: For what it's worth I think Shikyo's right, because you can't do A-Q-A with any other hero. I don't think he's wrong at this point. I just think he's hijacking the terminology that Riot's established to refer to only cancelling out of the initial autoattack, and being either deliberately or unintentionally confusing about it. | ||
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GeneralStan
United States4789 Posts
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On November 03 2011 03:11 TheYango wrote: I don't think he's wrong at this point. I just think he's hijacking the terminology that Riot's established to refer to only cancelling out of the initial autoattack, and being either deliberately or unintentionally confusing about it. it cancels the attack timer. It's not my idea, that's what happens. It's not a term either. It's like calling "went to the bus" a term. It's not a term, he just went to the bus. Last post of last page to compare. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On November 03 2011 03:09 Two_DoWn wrote: And judging by your video, it was just a simple auto-q-auto, like every other champion with that type of skill has, only garen's auto animation is fairly quick. Only Garen's the only one that can do that* Come on even if you hate me you need to stop saying incorrect things. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 03 2011 03:13 Shikyo wrote: it cancels the attack timer. It's not my idea, that's what happens. It's not a term either. It's like calling "went to the bus" a term. It's not a term, he just went to the bus. Last post of last page to compare. It probably shouldn't be a term, but Riot's basically turned it into one using it to describe a specific subset of skills in the manner, and a significant subset of the player-base perceives the meaning of it based on this. The fact that you're confusing the shit out of everyone furthers my point. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On November 03 2011 03:12 GeneralStan wrote: About Mana Burn: Aside form the dozen or so manaless champs, was there some reason Riot didn't want to put it into LoL? it's pretty infuriating to be on the receiving end of. old wit's end used to mana burn and while it was funny to be 10% hp Teemo just loling at 100% hp sion with no mana, the inverse was really really really unfun, so they took it out. I agree with their decision. Mana is fine as a resource, but it's not the sort of resource that your opponent should be able to attack, same reason I hate the idea of a character that attacks gold. I just don't think the gameplay it introduces is very deep, it feels like incredibly binary play (completely rapes the opponent or does nothing to the opponent with basically no room for a middleground). | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
That just confusing as fuck given what you actually intended to ask. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On November 03 2011 03:15 TheYango wrote: It probably shouldn't be a term, but Riot's basically turned it into one using it to describe a specific subset of skills in the manner. The fact that you're confusing the shit out of everyone furthers my point. Okay, that's too bad for them. Truth is I was right again and Garen's the only one who can do that. Too bad Shyvana can't, she'd have been my new solotop dominator. On November 03 2011 03:15 Juicyfruit wrote: Dude, Shikyo, you start off by asking "Does anyone know if Q resets attack timer the way Garens does or is it just standard?" That just confusing as fuck given what you actually intended to ask. Except for the fact that Garen's is the only one that's different from everyone else's and I mentioned Garen for a reason as I'm perfectly aware that every Q resets autoattack the normal way. Guess what standard means there? It means, like Nasus's, Wukong's, etc. | ||
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dnastyx
United States2707 Posts
On November 03 2011 03:12 GeneralStan wrote: About Mana Burn: Aside form the dozen or so manaless champs, was there some reason Riot didn't want to put it into LoL? When it does matter, it's not fun for the person being mana burned. There's no way to interact with that mechanic except not get hit. Mid-late game, it doesn't really matter, because you you have 5 billion mana anyway, so the actual mana burn doesn't do anything. I think the mechanic can still be useful and interesting...they just only put it on Wits End, which was priced and usually bought at as a mid-late game item. | ||
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On November 03 2011 02:56 Excellent wrote: For those mac users who haven't been keeping up with the thread / lost hope http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1433136&page=105 Solution was found halfway down the page, tried a custom game and it works  Holy mother of god, thank you so much! | ||
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crate
United States2474 Posts
If you want to test go play Garen against Nasus, get Withered, and go try to auto -> Q -> auto with Garen. If you time it "right" you'll auto -> Q -> stand there till your autoattack is off cooldown -> auto. edit: Actually I don't own Garen so it's possible his in particular works differently. That would be very strange though. If you think Garen's is different go test with an attackspeed of something like 0.2. I can't watch your video because I'm on a bad connection (though it sounds like others suggest it wouldn't be helpful anyway). | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On November 03 2011 03:16 dnastyx wrote: When it does matter, it's not fun for the person being mana burned. There's no way to interact with that mechanic except not get hit. Mid-late game, it doesn't really matter, because you you have 5 billion mana anyway, so the actual mana burn doesn't do anything. I think the mechanic can still be useful and interesting...they just only put it on Wits End, which was priced and usually bought at as a mid-late game item. what? no, it was an early game item. you bought it on teemo to lane vs. bruisers. and then they couldn't use the abilities that give them the edge in combat and they were 100% hard countered. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On November 03 2011 03:18 crate wrote: When you use a skill that "resets the autoattack timer" what it actually means is what Yango said: it just puts your character back into a neutral state (well, also issues a command to attack your current target if you have one). Said skill doesn't actually count as an autoattack for the purpose of your autoattack cooldown, isn't sped up by attackspeed, etc. Those skills apply on-hits and some (all? never bothered testing) of them can crit (but I think they have different rules for how crits boost damage than regular autoattacks, again never tested), but they're not an autoattack, and it doesn't set your autoattack cooldown to 0. So if you have low attack speed it's quite possible that after a skill like Nasus or Trundle or Garen Q your autoattack hasn't come back off cooldown so you can't autoattack right away. If you get more attack speed this delay will decrease, until you get enough so that your autoattack cools down faster than your Q animation and it'll look seamless. If you want to test go play Garen against Nasus, get Withered, and go try to auto -> Q -> auto with Garen. If you time it "right" you'll auto -> Q -> stand there till your autoattack is off cooldown -> auto. This is what I think as well. Its just a question of your attack speed. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 03 2011 03:12 GeneralStan wrote: About Mana Burn: Aside form the dozen or so manaless champs, was there some reason Riot didn't want to put it into LoL? It's a binary mechanic, and not just on mana-less champs (mana-less champs just make the binary nature more apparent). Either the skill does nothing because a target will die before they conceivably run out of mana (AP carries with large mana pools/blue buff, mana-less champs, squishy champions that die faster than they lose mana), or it's tantamount to a permanent silence once the target reaches no mana. It would be a nightmare to balance its comparative worthlessness against the former type of target vs. its enormous strength vs. the latter. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On November 03 2011 03:19 Two_DoWn wrote: This is what I think as well. Its just a question of your attack speed. Umm Garen has a lower aspd than either Wukong or Nasus. Theorycraft less, actually TEST THINGS more. But keep arguing against it, I guess I'll just enjoy being the only one instawinning solotops ta-ta~ | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
On November 03 2011 03:16 dnastyx wrote: When it does matter, it's not fun for the person being mana burned. There's no way to interact with that mechanic except not get hit. Mid-late game, it doesn't really matter, because you you have 5 billion mana anyway, so the actual mana burn doesn't do anything. As an ex-WoW gladiator, every time I see the words "mana burn" my cholesterol level spikes up and I hear the "PING" sound of a priest mana burn in my head. And on top of that, you can't really line-of-sight or interrupt in LoL. | ||
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crate
United States2474 Posts
On November 03 2011 03:22 Shikyo wrote: Umm Garen has a lower aspd than either Wukong or Nasus. Theorycraft less, actually TEST THINGS more. But keep arguing against it, I guess I'll just enjoy being the only one instawinning solotops ta-ta~ Unless Wukong, Nasus, and Garen all have the same animation length on their Q's this is irrelevant. Go test it with an attack speed of something like 0.2 on Garen (get Withered), that'll clear it up. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On November 03 2011 03:19 TheYango wrote: It's a binary mechanic, and not just on mana-less champs (mana-less champs just make the binary nature more apparent). Either the skill does nothing because a target will die before they conceivably run out of mana (AP carries with large mana pools/blue buff, mana-less champs, squishy champions that die faster than they lose mana), or it's tantamount to a permanent silence once the target reaches no mana. It would be a nightmare to balance its comparative worthlessness against the former type of target vs. its enormous strength vs. the latter. I think Nerubian Assassin from Dota, has this mana burn ability. Burn some mana, and do some damage. Doesn't do a huge load of impact because of the way mana is designed in dota (or well it's been years since i played) | ||
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dnastyx
United States2707 Posts
On November 03 2011 03:22 Shikyo wrote: Umm Garen has a lower aspd than either Wukong or Nasus. Theorycraft less, actually TEST THINGS more. But keep arguing against it, I guess I'll just enjoy being the only one instawinning solotops ta-ta~ You do realize crate's post explicitly asks you to test it? | ||
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