[Patch 1.0.0.128: Shyvana] General Discussion - Page 18

On November 02 2011 06:01 Phunkapotamus wrote:


Part of the reason I brought up Smash-Melee mechanics was because it was something I knew that Mogwai would understand. The other reason was to juxtapose LoL's lack of mechanics vs a game that relies solely on mechanics such that their use is almost mandatory for successful competitive play. You can't begin to competitively play Melee until the technical aspects of the game are mastered. Prior to that point, you're just not playing the same game as someone else: They're playing the metagame, and you're playing with the buttons. (There are exceptions to this rule of course. There was one top-tier player who never wavedashed- I forget his name... That's a different story though.)

Most people that care about getting good at the game have mastered the technical aspects of LoL because they're so easy. Problem is: most people are completely unaware of the metagame, or suck terribly at it. Take Guardsman Bob for example. I cringe when I watch his stream. He sucks at soloqueue. He never communicates, and he makes the assumption that his teammates are smart. Often he'll do something perfect- but his teammate has no concept of strategy so they'll botch a gank or read something incorrectly. Watching Bob in a tournament is a COMPLETELY different scenario. That guy knows exactly who has what summoner spell on CD, and the most perfect time to use WW's ult- often at times that I wouldn't expect.

In contrast is someone like HotshotGG, who assumes that his team is stupid and doesn't rely on them. Most top soloqueue people have this mentality, and it works out really well in a selfish sense.

If LoL's mechanics would allow technical skill to matter more, I think that you'd see a lot less QQ because selfish gameplay would be rewarded more. However, it would present a barrier of entry to less competitive players which make up the majority of the game's fanbase (paying users).

Mogwai brings up a good point though: With LoL's easy mechanics, you can casually get really into a very deep metagame. You can still own people- but you need to shift focus from technical skills and more into timings and positioning. It's more subtle than owning someone's face with sheer mastery of the keyboard- something I do enjoy. However, it is viable and competitive in its own right.

On November 02 2011 06:36 sylverfyre wrote:
Where do you go when Jurassic Cho'gath eats you?

On November 02 2011 06:40 Juicyfruit wrote:
I think people don`t give Regi enough credits, lol. I'm curious to see how this goes but he actually has a pretty good understanding of the situation and while he hasn't shown himself to be the best public speaker, I doubt he'll talk like an idiot for this.

On November 02 2011 06:47 mordek wrote:
Is it possible to get some LR? >.>

On November 02 2011 06:39 STS17 wrote:
This is a fundamentally flawed outlook on "how you should be able to win." Unfortunately, many of the "top tier" competitive eSports games have defined pro players as those who can abuse flaws in the game engine or bugs in certain mechanics (muta-stacking and wavedashing for example) so this has sort of become what is expected for games to be competetive and this is just such a poor way to judge how good someone is at what is supposed to be a Strategy game (RTS, MOBAs and Fighting games are all games about strategy in one form or another).

In a MOBA for example, the game shouldn't be won because of some arbitrary mechanical requirement (animation cancelling, denying, etc) but how your teamwork, positioning, timing, map awareness, map control, and other "game-sense" related skills stand up to your opponents. This form of strategy goes far beyond in-game moments, and extends even to champion and summoner spell selection, the ability to lane-switch, and many other aspects of the game, where as pure technical skill hardly reaches past the mouse and keyboard.

Of course, I am not trying to imply that a game should "do everything" for the players or that there should be no way for players to demonstrate their mechanical prowess, merely that a strategy-based game should be more about a player's (or team's) strategical ability, not their mastery of keyboard and mouse.

On November 02 2011 06:49 overt wrote:
"WCG has never changed the rules."

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?