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[Patch 1.0.0.127: Graves] General Discussion - Page 170

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 168 169 170 171 172 177 Next
barbsq
Profile Joined November 2009
United States5348 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 19:35:02
October 31 2011 19:34 GMT
#3381
On November 01 2011 04:33 Juicyfruit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2011 04:28 JackDino wrote:
On November 01 2011 04:26 gtrsrs wrote:
On November 01 2011 04:22 JackDino wrote:
You actually don't really NEED armour yellows to jungle, other runes like attackspeed yellows work aswell.


that's just not true though
i remember i used to run ar/level yellows for a better lategame and when i finally switched to armor yellows i used half as many pots and finished twice as fast because i didn't have to wait for pots to kick in between camps

armor yellows are the most pivotal runes for any jungler

Depending on jungler attackspeed yellows can be better. It's pretty obvious flat armour is better than armour/lvl in jungle. Some junglers can also run dodge which is far far better late.


I don't know a single jungler where attack speed yellow is better on, not even warwick needs that.


i like them on nocturne. and i used to use them when tiger udyr was popular

edit: oh and jungle ezreal, make of that what you will, lol
Look at this guy, constantly diluting himself! (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ ( ╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
October 31 2011 19:36 GMT
#3382
On November 01 2011 04:30 UniversalSnip wrote:
Wow I said vlad was a good solo queue champion and now shikyo thinks he's op and I look like an idiot, fml.

Ya all my Vlad's laning is on par with other ap casters is lookin pretty foolish atm too.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
mordek
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States12704 Posts
October 31 2011 19:44 GMT
#3383
On November 01 2011 04:33 Juicyfruit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2011 04:28 JackDino wrote:
On November 01 2011 04:26 gtrsrs wrote:
On November 01 2011 04:22 JackDino wrote:
You actually don't really NEED armour yellows to jungle, other runes like attackspeed yellows work aswell.


that's just not true though
i remember i used to run ar/level yellows for a better lategame and when i finally switched to armor yellows i used half as many pots and finished twice as fast because i didn't have to wait for pots to kick in between camps

armor yellows are the most pivotal runes for any jungler

Depending on jungler attackspeed yellows can be better. It's pretty obvious flat armour is better than armour/lvl in jungle. Some junglers can also run dodge which is far far better late.


I don't know a single jungler where attack speed yellow is better on, not even warwick needs that.

Only champ that comes to mind for ASpeed would be nocturne.
It is vanity to love what passes quickly and not to look ahead where eternal joy abides. Tiberius77 | Mordek #1881 "I took a mint!"
Snowster
Profile Joined June 2003
United States78 Posts
October 31 2011 19:47 GMT
#3384
Cardmaster jungle benefits more from aspd too, but then again he benefits most from dodge yellows because he likes to roll the dice.
Abenson
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada4122 Posts
October 31 2011 19:50 GMT
#3385
The first t3 runes I bought were flat armour yellows and mr/lv blues - they just work with every single champion and is worth every ip I spent on that.

Also, I actually opted for flat AD reds and quints instead of armpen simply because imho it gives you a lot of early game dominance. I want the rest of TL's ideas on armpen reds vs flat ad reds, since I feel like the flat AD reds have served me better so far.
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
October 31 2011 19:51 GMT
#3386
ArPen is basically strictly better at every single point in the game.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 20:00:19
October 31 2011 19:58 GMT
#3387
On November 01 2011 04:51 Mogwai wrote:
ArPen is basically strictly better at every single point in the game.


Except when your opponent has less armor than you have penetration. Flat ad is strictly better when there's wasted penetration.

and also after you have Last Whisper. Since flat penetration is taken into account prior to the percentage penetration of the Last Whisper you're better off having flat ad and last whisper than arpen and last whisper. The difference is likely negligible though.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 20:01:01
October 31 2011 20:00 GMT
#3388
On November 01 2011 04:51 Mogwai wrote:
ArPen is basically strictly better at every single point in the game.

Yeah the amount of ArPen that reds give you is so much more than what you get out of anything else. - including buying flat ArPen items. You always want at least as much arpen as whatever you're attacking early on (even squishies like ashe have 13 armor runeless!) and that gives you way more damage than flat AD will. Quints are a closer call, since the AD quint isn't giving HALF (it gives 2/3) of what the ArPen quint gives, and because overkilling (stacking it past where your targets will have 0 armor) arpen in the early game is 100% useless.
gtrsrs
Profile Joined June 2010
United States9109 Posts
October 31 2011 20:00 GMT
#3389
On November 01 2011 04:28 JackDino wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2011 04:26 gtrsrs wrote:
On November 01 2011 04:22 JackDino wrote:
You actually don't really NEED armour yellows to jungle, other runes like attackspeed yellows work aswell.


that's just not true though
i remember i used to run ar/level yellows for a better lategame and when i finally switched to armor yellows i used half as many pots and finished twice as fast because i didn't have to wait for pots to kick in between camps

armor yellows are the most pivotal runes for any jungler

Depending on jungler attackspeed yellows can be better. It's pretty obvious flat armour is better than armour/lvl in jungle. Some junglers can also run dodge which is far far better late.


the only jungle that optimally uses anything other than armor yellows is tiger udyr
i play ... hearthstone =\^.^/= Winterfox
barbsq
Profile Joined November 2009
United States5348 Posts
October 31 2011 20:04 GMT
#3390
On November 01 2011 04:50 Abenson wrote:
The first t3 runes I bought were flat armour yellows and mr/lv blues - they just work with every single champion and is worth every ip I spent on that.

Also, I actually opted for flat AD reds and quints instead of armpen simply because imho it gives you a lot of early game dominance. I want the rest of TL's ideas on armpen reds vs flat ad reds, since I feel like the flat AD reds have served me better so far.


the only case u can really make for it is if u have a magic dmg skill that scales off of AD (aka jax akali)
Look at this guy, constantly diluting himself! (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ ( ╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 20:07:53
October 31 2011 20:06 GMT
#3391
On November 01 2011 04:34 barbsq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2011 04:33 Juicyfruit wrote:
On November 01 2011 04:28 JackDino wrote:
On November 01 2011 04:26 gtrsrs wrote:
On November 01 2011 04:22 JackDino wrote:
You actually don't really NEED armour yellows to jungle, other runes like attackspeed yellows work aswell.


that's just not true though
i remember i used to run ar/level yellows for a better lategame and when i finally switched to armor yellows i used half as many pots and finished twice as fast because i didn't have to wait for pots to kick in between camps

armor yellows are the most pivotal runes for any jungler

Depending on jungler attackspeed yellows can be better. It's pretty obvious flat armour is better than armour/lvl in jungle. Some junglers can also run dodge which is far far better late.


I don't know a single jungler where attack speed yellow is better on, not even warwick needs that.


i like them on nocturne. and i used to use them when tiger udyr was popular

edit: oh and jungle ezreal, make of that what you will, lol

That doesn't make them better. At best ASpd vs Armor is a playstyle choice, and at worst, Armor is straight-up better.

On November 01 2011 04:04 Mogwai wrote:
what? with that build, it's GA hands down.

with 50% lifesteal and no prior resists, resists are king over HP.

Was going to say this as well. At high healing rates (healing abilities/high lifesteal/spellvamp), resists far outclass plain HP.
Moderator
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
October 31 2011 20:08 GMT
#3392
On November 01 2011 04:58 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2011 04:51 Mogwai wrote:
ArPen is basically strictly better at every single point in the game.


Except when your opponent has less armor than you have penetration. Flat ad is strictly better when there's wasted penetration.

and also after you have Last Whisper. Since flat penetration is taken into account prior to the percentage penetration of the Last Whisper you're better off having flat ad and last whisper than arpen and last whisper. The difference is likely negligible though.

say Last Whisper vs. 200 Armor Opponent with 200 AD without factoring marks.

AD Marks: (208.55 damage x 100)/(100 + 120) = 94.8 damage/attack

ArPen Marks: (200 damage x 100)/(100 + 111) = 94.8 damage/attack

This is like, one of the optimal conditions for AD marks, and there's less than a 0.1 difference in damage there.

And like, when is 15 ArPen going to be overkill?
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Brees
Profile Joined January 2010
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
October 31 2011 20:09 GMT
#3393
only use ad marks on champs that scale physically but do magic damage
Brees on in
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 20:11:14
October 31 2011 20:10 GMT
#3394
I'd say the one exception to that is when you do a lot of AD-scaling magic damage (e.g. Jax, Tigerdyr, Yorick). Then the AD is potentially better because the ArPen scales only the physical component of your damage, while the AD scales both.

EDIT: Beaten by Brees
Moderator
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
October 31 2011 20:11 GMT
#3395
On November 01 2011 05:09 Brees wrote:
only use ad marks on champs that scale physically but do magic damage

only Akali IMO. like, Kat still scales better with MPen I think and there's like, no one else who scales with AD but not physical damage during the early game.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Flakes
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States3125 Posts
October 31 2011 20:12 GMT
#3396
duoing ranked with a sleepy takashix
http://www.own3d.tv/Flakes#/live/96492
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
October 31 2011 20:14 GMT
#3397
On November 01 2011 05:11 Mogwai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2011 05:09 Brees wrote:
only use ad marks on champs that scale physically but do magic damage

only Akali IMO. like, Kat still scales better with MPen I think and there's like, no one else who scales with AD but not physical damage during the early game.

Uhh, Jax? Jax even double-dips on the AD through his passive, and Leap Strike and Empower are both magic damage.
Moderator
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
October 31 2011 20:14 GMT
#3398
On November 01 2011 05:08 Mogwai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2011 04:58 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
On November 01 2011 04:51 Mogwai wrote:
ArPen is basically strictly better at every single point in the game.


Except when your opponent has less armor than you have penetration. Flat ad is strictly better when there's wasted penetration.

and also after you have Last Whisper. Since flat penetration is taken into account prior to the percentage penetration of the Last Whisper you're better off having flat ad and last whisper than arpen and last whisper. The difference is likely negligible though.

say Last Whisper vs. 200 Armor Opponent with 200 AD without factoring marks.

AD Marks: (208.55 damage x 100)/(100 + 120) = 94.8 damage/attack

ArPen Marks: (200 damage x 100)/(100 + 111) = 94.8 damage/attack

This is like, one of the optimal conditions for AD marks, and there's less than a 0.1 difference in damage there.

And like, when is 15 ArPen going to be overkill?

It's not, but 31 often is (AD marks, quints, and the arpen mastery.)
Brees
Profile Joined January 2010
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
October 31 2011 20:14 GMT
#3399
jax, udyr, yorick. I also get it on urgot since I rush LW to some extent
Brees on in
dignity
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada908 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 20:20:44
October 31 2011 20:20 GMT
#3400
Akali is one of those champs that need an extremely specific runepage because of her passive so that might be a bit of an exception.

If anything Akali only uses 7 flat ad marks.
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