EPT[Patch 1.0.0.125: Riven] General Discussion - Page 188
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Craton
United States17274 Posts
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On October 02 2011 04:25 zalz wrote: Building defense isn't much of an option for some champions. Plenty of casters serve literally no purpose if they don't pour the vast majority of their gold into offensive items. You also serve no purpose if you die before you do any of that damage in the first place. I'd rather you do a bit less damage and actually be useful to my team than just get instagibbed every fight because you don't know what armor is and talon keeps destroying you. If talon doesn't kill you in one combo he doesn't exactly have a followup. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On October 02 2011 04:28 Craton wrote: Any assassin can easily pick up kills in the later game without having gotten a kill in lane phase. You can easily get kills forcing dragons, as well. Moreover, a champ like Talon can snowball out of control with just 1-2 early kills. Yeah man, that rushed null mantle or cloth armor you'll never build into anything will just make all the difference. Good luck playing a support, as well. That was a nice oracles you had there. akali cant kill taric/alistar/janna without getting disabled from them. Even if. The best scenario you can have in a 5on5 clash is to lose your support first. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On October 02 2011 04:33 Craton wrote: It's dumb on those champs, but it's the improved form that gives them the meaningful infinite sustain. Kennen's all rush WotA, Jax and Akali rush Gunblade, and Morde rushes at least one. Very true. They all rush the secondary item. Thats because A) The revolver is so cheap they have no reason not to, and B) revolver lets them stay in lane until they can buy the secondary item. Its too cheap for what it does. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
On October 02 2011 04:34 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: You also serve no purpose if you die before you do any of that damage in the first place. I'd rather you do a bit less damage and actually be useful to my team than just get instagibbed every fight because you don't know what armor is and talon keeps destroying you. If talon doesn't kill you in one combo he doesn't exactly have a followup. There is only 1 champ I can think of where it would probably be ok to full on glass cannon and that would be Karthus and thats only because of Death Defiled. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
Plenty of casters can build defenses JUST FINE. They still have decent base damage (compare that to ranged AD, lol), and they typically have some CC on top of that. | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
On October 02 2011 04:34 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: You also serve no purpose if you die before you do any of that damage in the first place. I'd rather you do a bit less damage and actually be useful to my team than just get instagibbed every fight because you don't know what armor is and talon keeps destroying you. If talon doesn't kill you in one combo he doesn't exactly have a followup. This is the false argument that always arises when discussing defensive items. If you build anything other then a deathcap then most AP champions will get shut down in the midgame. Building a defensive item is essentially giving the other AP carry that isn't doing the same an advantage of 10+ kills in terms of damage output. You aren't there for sustained damage, you are there to pop all your cooldowns on the enemy team and if you survive then maybe you get to do it again, if they slap you down afterwards, too bad. On average you will be looking at finishing the deathcap at give or take 20 minutes. You can build a defensive item after that but i still would not recommend it. Around that time you want to go for 40% magic pen because other people are finishing their big defensive items. Frankly i find it utterly illogical to suggest defensive items on an AP carry. If you want to be AP and defensive then you should play something like a Cho'gath, a champion that is allready naturally designed for that role. To go defensive on an AP carry is trying to put 2 more wheels on a bike and pretend it's a car. Just like an AD carry you go full offensive and stay alive by positioning. You don't need to waste 3k gold if you just don't let the enemy near you before the fights go down. When they go down your job is to simply move into range and unleash hell. Defensive items are very lategame. | ||
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DoXa
Switzerland1448 Posts
On October 02 2011 05:40 Tooplark wrote: stream up! www.twitch.tv/tooplark LMAO whats that on your head?? | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
Hair and a pillow.................. | ||
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DoXa
Switzerland1448 Posts
why would one put a pillow on his head? | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 02 2011 05:41 zalz wrote: This is the false argument that always arises when discussing defensive items. If you build anything other then a deathcap then most AP champions will get shut down in the midgame. Building a defensive item is essentially giving the other AP carry that isn't doing the same an advantage of 10+ kills in terms of damage output. You aren't there for sustained damage, you are there to pop all your cooldowns on the enemy team and if you survive then maybe you get to do it again, if they slap you down afterwards, too bad. On average you will be looking at finishing the deathcap at give or take 20 minutes. You can build a defensive item after that but i still would not recommend it. Around that time you want to go for 40% magic pen because other people are finishing their big defensive items. Frankly i find it utterly illogical to suggest defensive items on an AP carry. If you want to be AP and defensive then you should play something like a Cho'gath, a champion that is allready naturally designed for that role. To go defensive on an AP carry is trying to put 2 more wheels on a bike and pretend it's a car. Just like an AD carry you go full offensive and stay alive by positioning. You don't need to waste 3k gold if you just don't let the enemy near you before the fights go down. When they go down your job is to simply move into range and unleash hell. Defensive items are very lategame. This depends largely on the AP carry in question. On Brand, whose only contribution to a fight is damage? Sure. On a champ where a large portion of their draw is utility (Orianna, Morgana, etc.), defensive items earlier where it's appropriate can be fine, especially if your team can pick up the damage. Getting to line up a 4-person Orianna ulti is decisive, even if it doesn't do as much damage as it could. | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
I'm leaning against the wall in a situp sort of position with the laptop on my legs. The pillow is between my head and the wall. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On October 02 2011 04:28 L wrote: Sit on a trap. For double bonus, put another trap a netshot away while you're at tower standoffs or defenses. Talon and Akali go from FEAR-LEVEL 1000 to CANT ESCAPE JOKE MACHINE. This is brilliant, kept getting killed by an Akali last night (Super noob right now, so my fault anyways). Thanks for the idea. :p | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On October 02 2011 06:13 UniversalSnip wrote: you're a derp spinesheath, that isn't what happened with revolver at all. Correct timeline - revolver is 15% vamp and sucks, and builds into some other items that suck - riot randomly buffs revolver to 20% and the items it builds into to the same efficiency, they are all broken and people stack as much as they can. - riot nerfs revolver back to 15% (it's now garbage) and makes it unique, but leaves it's upgrades at the same efficiency, wtf. Haha I indeed messed that up a bit. However, Revolver once was at 10%. 15% sure as hell doesn't make it garbage either. | ||
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
this time i'll actually be talking to my friends on skype www.twitch.tv/tooplark | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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