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[Patch 1.0.0.125: Riven] General Discussion - Page 188

Forum Index > LoL General
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Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17303 Posts
October 01 2011 19:33 GMT
#3741
It's dumb on those champs, but it's the improved form that gives them the meaningful infinite sustain. Kennen's all rush WotA, Jax and Akali rush Gunblade, and Morde rushes at least one.
twitch.tv/cratonz
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
October 01 2011 19:34 GMT
#3742
On October 02 2011 04:25 zalz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 02 2011 04:23 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
On October 02 2011 04:19 Craton wrote:
Tell me again what item lets you disengage from Akali 3 times? Or stops talon from 100-0ing a carry in one combo?


Not building glass cannon? His ratios are pretty absurd, but if you aren't stacking extra defense when you're dying to assassins you only have yourself to blame. When you're dead you do 0 DPS.

If you have a team that is coordinated enough to cc it's a whole different story of course.


Building defense isn't much of an option for some champions. Plenty of casters serve literally no purpose if they don't pour the vast majority of their gold into offensive items.


You also serve no purpose if you die before you do any of that damage in the first place. I'd rather you do a bit less damage and actually be useful to my team than just get instagibbed every fight because you don't know what armor is and talon keeps destroying you. If talon doesn't kill you in one combo he doesn't exactly have a followup.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
clickrush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Switzerland3257 Posts
October 01 2011 19:40 GMT
#3743
On October 02 2011 04:28 Craton wrote:
Any assassin can easily pick up kills in the later game without having gotten a kill in lane phase. You can easily get kills forcing dragons, as well. Moreover, a champ like Talon can snowball out of control with just 1-2 early kills.

Show nested quote +
On October 02 2011 04:23 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Not building glass cannon?

Yeah man, that rushed null mantle or cloth armor you'll never build into anything will just make all the difference.

Good luck playing a support, as well. That was a nice oracles you had there.


akali cant kill taric/alistar/janna without getting disabled from them. Even if. The best scenario you can have in a 5on5 clash is to lose your support first.
oGsMC: Zealot defense, Stalker attack, Sentry forcefieldu forcefieldu, Marauder die die
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
October 01 2011 19:55 GMT
#3744
On October 02 2011 04:33 Craton wrote:
It's dumb on those champs, but it's the improved form that gives them the meaningful infinite sustain. Kennen's all rush WotA, Jax and Akali rush Gunblade, and Morde rushes at least one.

Very true. They all rush the secondary item. Thats because A) The revolver is so cheap they have no reason not to, and B) revolver lets them stay in lane until they can buy the secondary item. Its too cheap for what it does.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20255 Posts
October 01 2011 20:14 GMT
#3745
On October 02 2011 04:34 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 02 2011 04:25 zalz wrote:
On October 02 2011 04:23 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
On October 02 2011 04:19 Craton wrote:
Tell me again what item lets you disengage from Akali 3 times? Or stops talon from 100-0ing a carry in one combo?


Not building glass cannon? His ratios are pretty absurd, but if you aren't stacking extra defense when you're dying to assassins you only have yourself to blame. When you're dead you do 0 DPS.

If you have a team that is coordinated enough to cc it's a whole different story of course.


Building defense isn't much of an option for some champions. Plenty of casters serve literally no purpose if they don't pour the vast majority of their gold into offensive items.


You also serve no purpose if you die before you do any of that damage in the first place. I'd rather you do a bit less damage and actually be useful to my team than just get instagibbed every fight because you don't know what armor is and talon keeps destroying you. If talon doesn't kill you in one combo he doesn't exactly have a followup.


There is only 1 champ I can think of where it would probably be ok to full on glass cannon and that would be Karthus and thats only because of Death Defiled.
Never Knows Best.
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
October 01 2011 20:16 GMT
#3746
Of course Revolver is OP. What do you expect? Revolver buff, everyone starts to stack them because DAMN THEY ARE SO GOOD. Riot notices that people stack revolvers, decides they don't like that. Make it UNIQUE. Best solution, doesn't fix the Revolver too good for the cost issue (and building into 2 very strong items, no dead-end item excuse for you), but makes people not stack them. Cosmetic fix that doesn't address the problem, es #1.

Plenty of casters can build defenses JUST FINE. They still have decent base damage (compare that to ranged AD, lol), and they typically have some CC on top of that.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
BlackPaladin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States9316 Posts
October 01 2011 20:17 GMT
#3747
Fuck riot servers with a rusty nail.
"Your full potential does not matter if you do not use all 100% of it."
Tooplark
Profile Joined October 2008
United States3977 Posts
October 01 2011 20:40 GMT
#3748
stream up! www.twitch.tv/tooplark
WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW
zalz
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Netherlands3704 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-01 20:43:16
October 01 2011 20:41 GMT
#3749
On October 02 2011 04:34 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 02 2011 04:25 zalz wrote:
On October 02 2011 04:23 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
On October 02 2011 04:19 Craton wrote:
Tell me again what item lets you disengage from Akali 3 times? Or stops talon from 100-0ing a carry in one combo?


Not building glass cannon? His ratios are pretty absurd, but if you aren't stacking extra defense when you're dying to assassins you only have yourself to blame. When you're dead you do 0 DPS.

If you have a team that is coordinated enough to cc it's a whole different story of course.


Building defense isn't much of an option for some champions. Plenty of casters serve literally no purpose if they don't pour the vast majority of their gold into offensive items.


You also serve no purpose if you die before you do any of that damage in the first place. I'd rather you do a bit less damage and actually be useful to my team than just get instagibbed every fight because you don't know what armor is and talon keeps destroying you. If talon doesn't kill you in one combo he doesn't exactly have a followup.


This is the false argument that always arises when discussing defensive items. If you build anything other then a deathcap then most AP champions will get shut down in the midgame.

Building a defensive item is essentially giving the other AP carry that isn't doing the same an advantage of 10+ kills in terms of damage output.


You aren't there for sustained damage, you are there to pop all your cooldowns on the enemy team and if you survive then maybe you get to do it again, if they slap you down afterwards, too bad.

On average you will be looking at finishing the deathcap at give or take 20 minutes. You can build a defensive item after that but i still would not recommend it. Around that time you want to go for 40% magic pen because other people are finishing their big defensive items.


Frankly i find it utterly illogical to suggest defensive items on an AP carry. If you want to be AP and defensive then you should play something like a Cho'gath, a champion that is allready naturally designed for that role. To go defensive on an AP carry is trying to put 2 more wheels on a bike and pretend it's a car.

Just like an AD carry you go full offensive and stay alive by positioning. You don't need to waste 3k gold if you just don't let the enemy near you before the fights go down. When they go down your job is to simply move into range and unleash hell. Defensive items are very lategame.
DoXa
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Switzerland1448 Posts
October 01 2011 20:42 GMT
#3750
On October 02 2011 05:40 Tooplark wrote:
stream up! www.twitch.tv/tooplark


LMAO whats that on your head??
BlackPaladin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States9316 Posts
October 01 2011 20:59 GMT
#3751
On October 02 2011 05:42 DoXa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 02 2011 05:40 Tooplark wrote:
stream up! www.twitch.tv/tooplark


LMAO whats that on your head??


Hair and a pillow..................
"Your full potential does not matter if you do not use all 100% of it."
DoXa
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Switzerland1448 Posts
October 01 2011 21:00 GMT
#3752
On October 02 2011 05:59 BlackPaladin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 02 2011 05:42 DoXa wrote:
On October 02 2011 05:40 Tooplark wrote:
stream up! www.twitch.tv/tooplark


LMAO whats that on your head??


Hair and a pillow..................


why would one put a pillow on his head?
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
October 01 2011 21:07 GMT
#3753
On October 02 2011 05:41 zalz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 02 2011 04:34 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
On October 02 2011 04:25 zalz wrote:
On October 02 2011 04:23 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
On October 02 2011 04:19 Craton wrote:
Tell me again what item lets you disengage from Akali 3 times? Or stops talon from 100-0ing a carry in one combo?


Not building glass cannon? His ratios are pretty absurd, but if you aren't stacking extra defense when you're dying to assassins you only have yourself to blame. When you're dead you do 0 DPS.

If you have a team that is coordinated enough to cc it's a whole different story of course.


Building defense isn't much of an option for some champions. Plenty of casters serve literally no purpose if they don't pour the vast majority of their gold into offensive items.


You also serve no purpose if you die before you do any of that damage in the first place. I'd rather you do a bit less damage and actually be useful to my team than just get instagibbed every fight because you don't know what armor is and talon keeps destroying you. If talon doesn't kill you in one combo he doesn't exactly have a followup.


This is the false argument that always arises when discussing defensive items. If you build anything other then a deathcap then most AP champions will get shut down in the midgame.

Building a defensive item is essentially giving the other AP carry that isn't doing the same an advantage of 10+ kills in terms of damage output.


You aren't there for sustained damage, you are there to pop all your cooldowns on the enemy team and if you survive then maybe you get to do it again, if they slap you down afterwards, too bad.

On average you will be looking at finishing the deathcap at give or take 20 minutes. You can build a defensive item after that but i still would not recommend it. Around that time you want to go for 40% magic pen because other people are finishing their big defensive items.


Frankly i find it utterly illogical to suggest defensive items on an AP carry. If you want to be AP and defensive then you should play something like a Cho'gath, a champion that is allready naturally designed for that role. To go defensive on an AP carry is trying to put 2 more wheels on a bike and pretend it's a car.

Just like an AD carry you go full offensive and stay alive by positioning. You don't need to waste 3k gold if you just don't let the enemy near you before the fights go down. When they go down your job is to simply move into range and unleash hell. Defensive items are very lategame.

This depends largely on the AP carry in question. On Brand, whose only contribution to a fight is damage? Sure. On a champ where a large portion of their draw is utility (Orianna, Morgana, etc.), defensive items earlier where it's appropriate can be fine, especially if your team can pick up the damage. Getting to line up a 4-person Orianna ulti is decisive, even if it doesn't do as much damage as it could.
Moderator
BlackPaladin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States9316 Posts
October 01 2011 21:11 GMT
#3754
Orianna's range on her spells allow her to build glass cannon. Only champs that really need survivability in the AP carry role are champs like morgana and kennen who's ults rely on being in the middle of all 5 for a prolonged period of time. Thus, zhonyas rush instead of deathcap rush to remove that weakness.
"Your full potential does not matter if you do not use all 100% of it."
Tooplark
Profile Joined October 2008
United States3977 Posts
October 01 2011 21:13 GMT
#3755
On October 02 2011 06:00 DoXa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 02 2011 05:59 BlackPaladin wrote:
On October 02 2011 05:42 DoXa wrote:
On October 02 2011 05:40 Tooplark wrote:
stream up! www.twitch.tv/tooplark


LMAO whats that on your head??


Hair and a pillow..................


why would one put a pillow on his head?


I'm leaning against the wall in a situp sort of position with the laptop on my legs. The pillow is between my head and the wall.
WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
October 01 2011 21:13 GMT
#3756
you're a derp spinesheath, that isn't what happened with revolver at all. Correct timeline - revolver is 15% vamp and sucks, and builds into some other items that suck - riot randomly buffs revolver to 20% and the items it builds into to the same efficiency, they are all broken and people stack as much as they can. - riot nerfs revolver back to 15% (it's now garbage) and makes it unique, but leaves it's upgrades at the same efficiency, wtf.
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
October 01 2011 21:17 GMT
#3757
On October 02 2011 04:28 L wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 02 2011 01:55 clickrush wrote:
cait is kinda fucked against assassins though.

Sit on a trap. For double bonus, put another trap a netshot away while you're at tower standoffs or defenses. Talon and Akali go from FEAR-LEVEL 1000 to CANT ESCAPE JOKE MACHINE.

This is brilliant, kept getting killed by an Akali last night (Super noob right now, so my fault anyways). Thanks for the idea. :p
you gotta dance
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
October 01 2011 21:33 GMT
#3758
On October 02 2011 06:13 UniversalSnip wrote:
you're a derp spinesheath, that isn't what happened with revolver at all. Correct timeline - revolver is 15% vamp and sucks, and builds into some other items that suck - riot randomly buffs revolver to 20% and the items it builds into to the same efficiency, they are all broken and people stack as much as they can. - riot nerfs revolver back to 15% (it's now garbage) and makes it unique, but leaves it's upgrades at the same efficiency, wtf.

Haha I indeed messed that up a bit. However, Revolver once was at 10%. 15% sure as hell doesn't make it garbage either.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
Tooplark
Profile Joined October 2008
United States3977 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-01 21:46:20
October 01 2011 21:46 GMT
#3759
stream back up huehue
this time i'll actually be talking to my friends on skype
www.twitch.tv/tooplark
WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
October 01 2011 22:03 GMT
#3760
Urgot can't carry 4 retards inc. 2 feeders-leavers against beginners AI. Gotta pick something else but it's my smurf I'm doing my WotD game on.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
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