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On September 27 2011 05:00 NeoIllusions wrote:
jiji feasts on all the noob tears in this thread.
>_>
This argument aside(I actually am plenty fine with laning as an isolated gameplay element vs pros, or used to be when I was really actively playing at least), I seriously don't think people can understand how fucking silly it was. Maybe it was just some luck and he was on his stream laughing it up having a good time that every time he Q'd to push creep one would somehow find me, but it was so annoying. What a dick.
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lol I played vs Jiji's Aniv once and all he did was push 3 waves and then back. Holy fuck it was irritating.
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Honestly, you can tell how good a player is by how little they die (for the most part, there are exceptions such as Regi.)
Top top level players will only fight fights they know they will win so they average like 3 deaths a game.
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On September 27 2011 05:15 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 04:59 r.Evo wrote:My question to the 2k+ people on TL is:
What are those things you avoid and exploit that people below your level don't? - Simply because it has to be more subtle things than I'm exploiting/avoiding currently, or I'd be at your level. (; I know it's quite obvious and has been said 10000000 times, but timing dragon/baron and taking all of them as the jungler is my go-to method of carrying accounts that are significantly lower than where I should be. I also routinely take dragon at 7-9 minutes into the game while when I play with my 1500ish level friends in the jungle, they don't think to force dragon until they have a hugely obvious advantage after a successful gank mid/bot well past 10 minutes into the game. Getting this free 190 gold that early for my whole team routinely gives my team a big advantage.
Very yes.
I've also found that timing the small camps so that you arrive at them as they respawn significantly increases the amount of gold you can generate in the jungle and leads to a 1-2 level advantage over most junglers who don't.
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On September 27 2011 04:03 Ryuu314 wrote:
Speaking from experience, playing against people significantly higher elo than you, you will lose.
I was like 1550 elo in season 1 and I got matched up against bly and 5hit's premade ranked 5's group. I laned mid against bly and even tho I was even in cs and exp and never died for the vast majority of laning phase, I still ended up losing that lane horribly. The reason is because even if you don't fall behind in cs and exp purely on laning, you simply just don't have the experience that tells you wtf you should do.
For example, he was annie and after he hit like 6, he insta-cleared his wave and forced me back with Q+W combo. While I went back, he went to my team's bot lane, dived them and got a double kill. He's a much better player than me so he knows wtf to do; when to try to force me back (which is possible cause he has better mechanics) and what to do with these small advantages. Even though I wasn't behind in cs or exp, I had no fcking clue what to do with it half the time. I'd just clear wave and sit there or leave lane and attempt to gank sidelanes but at bad times etc etc. There's just so much more to winning your lane than just hitting creep and getting exp. I've also played ranked 5s against a premade group of 2k elo people (yay for accelerated elo matching us up to 2k elo premades rofl). Holy hell, the mechanical difference is just fucking huge. Say you can hit 5/6 creeps every wave and the other guy hits 6/6. May not seem big at first, but after like 12-15 minutes, that ends up being a 30+ creep advantage, which those players know how to utilize to just fucking rape you in lane (get more pots so they can win trades, get extra dblade/dring to burst u harder, etc...).
That said, T_D's original point is still really valid tho. Jungling is so much harder than laning. Failing as jungler or getting raped by the other jungler in terms of counter-jungling and ganking, simply just snowballs so much fucking harder than getting raped in lane. Yea, laners can carry harder, but junglers can set up the laners to carry. The reason I think this is the case is because if you're failing your lane you can call for lane switch or ganks. You have a safety net. If you fail as jungler, you're fucked and there's no one who can save you and get you back in the game.
I've never played Annie in ranked 5s, must've been someone else.
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On September 27 2011 05:15 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 04:59 r.Evo wrote:My question to the 2k+ people on TL is:
What are those things you avoid and exploit that people below your level don't? - Simply because it has to be more subtle things than I'm exploiting/avoiding currently, or I'd be at your level. (; I know it's quite obvious and has been said 10000000 times, but timing dragon/baron and taking all of them as the jungler is my go-to method of carrying accounts that are significantly lower than where I should be. I also routinely take dragon at 7-9 minutes into the game while when I play with my 1500ish level friends in the jungle, they don't think to force dragon until they have a hugely obvious advantage after a successful gank mid/bot well past 10 minutes into the game. Getting this free 190 gold that early for my whole team routinely gives my team a big advantage.
what junglers are you taking it that early on?
i usually take it at 11-12 on udyr (phoenix) or 9-11 on udyr (tiger), a bit earlier on trundle, a bit later on mumu. warwick is a WILD CARD
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Xin, WW, LS
typically later with nocturne obviously.
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Probably Lee Sin. Too OP.
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On September 27 2011 05:36 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 04:03 Ryuu314 wrote:
Speaking from experience, playing against people significantly higher elo than you, you will lose.
I was like 1550 elo in season 1 and I got matched up against bly and 5hit's premade ranked 5's group. I laned mid against bly and even tho I was even in cs and exp and never died for the vast majority of laning phase, I still ended up losing that lane horribly. The reason is because even if you don't fall behind in cs and exp purely on laning, you simply just don't have the experience that tells you wtf you should do.
For example, he was annie and after he hit like 6, he insta-cleared his wave and forced me back with Q+W combo. While I went back, he went to my team's bot lane, dived them and got a double kill. He's a much better player than me so he knows wtf to do; when to try to force me back (which is possible cause he has better mechanics) and what to do with these small advantages. Even though I wasn't behind in cs or exp, I had no fcking clue what to do with it half the time. I'd just clear wave and sit there or leave lane and attempt to gank sidelanes but at bad times etc etc. There's just so much more to winning your lane than just hitting creep and getting exp. I've also played ranked 5s against a premade group of 2k elo people (yay for accelerated elo matching us up to 2k elo premades rofl). Holy hell, the mechanical difference is just fucking huge. Say you can hit 5/6 creeps every wave and the other guy hits 6/6. May not seem big at first, but after like 12-15 minutes, that ends up being a 30+ creep advantage, which those players know how to utilize to just fucking rape you in lane (get more pots so they can win trades, get extra dblade/dring to burst u harder, etc...).
That said, T_D's original point is still really valid tho. Jungling is so much harder than laning. Failing as jungler or getting raped by the other jungler in terms of counter-jungling and ganking, simply just snowballs so much fucking harder than getting raped in lane. Yea, laners can carry harder, but junglers can set up the laners to carry. The reason I think this is the case is because if you're failing your lane you can call for lane switch or ganks. You have a safety net. If you fail as jungler, you're fucked and there's no one who can save you and get you back in the game. I've never played Annie in ranked 5s, must've been someone else.
All I know what I played against you and 5hit in ranked 5s and your mid solo was annie.
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A 2 game win streak in ranked has me feeling like its all going to work out with the world. lol
Also had the 1st "zomg Karthus dumb champ AOE DIE PRESS R stupid easy champ" rage in a while. But then again he also bitched about trundle too lol 2-10 garen ftw.
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Oh wow last game, they had a heimer mid and I was vlad vs him, the heimer pushed super hard so I had to lasthit at tower, I did some ninja zen like concentration while playing and tried to lasthit as well as I possibly could, saving spells for when they were needed etc. despite having bad vlad base dmg and turret vs a masspush heimer.
At 8:30 I went back to base and I checked and I had 81 minion kills, that made me feel super good that with concentration I guess I can lasthit decently ^-^ Wish I wasn't so lazy normally.
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Re: Dragon:
Phoenix Udyr can solo it at level 6 with bluebuff, cloth armor, and constant HP pots (I was running 15% aspd, 10 arpen, and 13 armor in runes plus 1/12/17 masteries when I tested). Tiger can definitely solo as soon as you get Wriggles, not sure about how much earlier. If you're purple side you can take your second bluebuff and then immediately go kill dragon with Phoenix.
Trundle can solo dragon as soon as he gets Wriggles.
edit: Trundle can actually do dragon at level 6 with vamp scepter + longsword + cloth armor + pots, but you have to use your ult on it.
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I got to round of 64 in the TSM 1v1 tournament and I don't even play ranked. Don't dismiss other people skills based on their elo. It's so fucking dumb and retarded. It's the genetic fallacy applied to video games.
Also you can solo dragon with just about every single jungler in the game as soon as you get madreds. When I jungle yi I do it right after my first lap.
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On September 27 2011 05:41 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 05:15 Mogwai wrote:On September 27 2011 04:59 r.Evo wrote:My question to the 2k+ people on TL is:
What are those things you avoid and exploit that people below your level don't? - Simply because it has to be more subtle things than I'm exploiting/avoiding currently, or I'd be at your level. (; I know it's quite obvious and has been said 10000000 times, but timing dragon/baron and taking all of them as the jungler is my go-to method of carrying accounts that are significantly lower than where I should be. I also routinely take dragon at 7-9 minutes into the game while when I play with my 1500ish level friends in the jungle, they don't think to force dragon until they have a hugely obvious advantage after a successful gank mid/bot well past 10 minutes into the game. Getting this free 190 gold that early for my whole team routinely gives my team a big advantage. what junglers are you taking it that early on? i usually take it at 11-12 on udyr (phoenix) or 9-11 on udyr (tiger), a bit earlier on trundle, a bit later on mumu. warwick is a WILD CARD
If you get first blood you can do it at 7-8 on tigerdyr with wriggles and a potion.
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Trundle can't do it with madred only, he'll need pots all along. Tho with ult, wriggles, enough mana to spam Q/W and smite ready, he downs it decently fast.
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Does anyone have any thoughts/experience on kassadin vs brand? Just played kassa and I failed miserably lvl 2-6.
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Trundle q also procs madreds, you could kill the dragon in under 15 seconds if you're lucky enough at lvl 5.
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On September 27 2011 06:56 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Trundle q also procs madreds, you could kill the dragon in under 15 seconds if you're lucky enough at lvl 5.
Riot doesn't actually use true random numbers any more so I'm not sure this is possible.
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On September 27 2011 07:00 crate wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 06:56 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Trundle q also procs madreds, you could kill the dragon in under 15 seconds if you're lucky enough at lvl 5. Riot doesn't actually use true random numbers any more so I'm not sure this is possible.
for critical hits and dodges, I've never heard anything about them switching over to the faux-random system for things like madred procs
personally I really dislike that procs are random...
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Imagine how much easier it would be to jungle if madreds procs were standardized to "procs every third hit"
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EPT
