EPTEDIT: I agree that our best line of action is to play stuff we're comfortable with and not try to outpick ourselves. We probably won't win, so let's at least treat it as good practice.
[Team] TL B - Page 38
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dnastyx
United States2707 Posts
EDIT: I agree that our best line of action is to play stuff we're comfortable with and not try to outpick ourselves. We probably won't win, so let's at least treat it as good practice. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 22 2011 00:42 Juicyfruit wrote: Trundle is awesome, and I would pick him vs Udyr most of the time, but I think Rammus has the right tool to deal with Udyr (comparable first-clear speed and superior early level ganks) on top of having imo, a much stronger teamfight presence because he's basically fiddle with a built-in hourglass all to himself. I think both our previous assessment of rammus underestimated him a little; he was actually a perfectly good pick in that game we lost with him now that I`ve gotten more experience with him. For reference: TL - soraka, kogmaw rammus, irelia, brand Their team - taric, ezreal, udyr, renekton, kennen It`s fun to look back and reanalyze things  Here, trundle would be a little awkward because his pillar doesn`t do much against a well-played Ezzy, and Renekton also kinda shrugs it off; he would only be there to stop Udyr basically, which is not all that great if the other team can ignore most if it and just kill brand/kog. Rammus is harder to ignore because of his ludicrous damage output if built somewhat DPS and he'll be able to survive that shit or at least tank two person's share of burst which will let brand/kogmaw walk over them (on top of which if they focused rammus, soraka can spare him an astral blessing which = +30 AD for rammus huehue) I didn't mean with regard to that game in particular, and I did my analysis of the jungle pick that game back when you guys were first discussing it. I'm not going to waste another long post re-iterating what I already said. I don't think Rammus was the best pick there, but I don't think he was the worst one either. | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
you're better off building him shurelya randuin etc (the gp5 and regen and hp are all great stats cuz he gets so much free armor mr from w in temafight as well as building into utility items later when his base damage can't catch up to others lategame and he becomes a tauntbot and diver and tanker) in that game wtf? rammus is harder to ignore cause of his "ludicrous damage"? he can't 1v1 anybody in that fucking game lol (ezreal can just e away after powerball taunt, etc. etc.) unless he's significantly fed in which case you could probably build lich bane and win and if you're saying sending irelia and rammus to go dive on taric and ezreal while soraka and kog and brand try to deal with udyr renekton and kennen, that's a really bad trade unless again your team is very fed which isn't a safe assumption to make | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
Rammus's biggest weakness is his W downtime. The DPS rammus setup is meant to front load the amount of shit he gets done within 6 seconds. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23404 Posts
I prefer PD over phage+wits end but its less tanky but more damage and mobility. Rammus one of the few people that DEMOLISHES fed ad carries because even if nobody else around they will lose most of their hp in 3 seconds if you have your ult up. You probably underestimate rammus because if you don't build wriggles and gank too much unsucessfully you can fall down really far in farm and levels. (also rammus is great against kennen because if you taunt him at a good time he won't stun much and he'll be as squishy as any other AP carry. He can still go after an AD carry when taunt is back because 3 seconds is ridiculous against squishies. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
On October 22 2011 00:42 Juicyfruit wrote: TL - soraka, kogmaw rammus, irelia, brand Their team - taric, ezreal, udyr, renekton, kennen I really don't like putting soraka with kogmaw, very passive lane with no cc to defend vs ganks. An ez + taric lane on the other hand is very aggressive and can force a lot of opportunities with or without jungle ganks. If you get kog vs ez, I would only consider sona/ali/taric with kog. Brand vs kennen is fine. Unless the irelia is smash, she will get destroyed by renekton. If they pick renekton before you picked a top I would strongly consider ryze or some other ap. Rammus vs udyr is fine. Your most important lane with this comp is bot, pray your ad is good and knows how to avoid ezreal Qs. | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
They probably will run renekton and we can grab cho which will be good to protect kog as well. | ||
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dnastyx
United States2707 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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dnastyx
United States2707 Posts
On October 22 2011 05:02 zulu_nation8 wrote: vs renekton, pick ryze, vs teams that run bruiser tops and have better tops skillwise, try to pick an ap, if not then pick gp. Renekton destroys all melees. Actually I don't think we have a Ryze player, which is lame. Because Ryze is too fucking strong. | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
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Navi
5286 Posts
but his damage output against anybody who knows how to get mercs and any competent team that knows how to peel is not great if you're comfortable go with it but he's offensive tank was talking mostly for that game that tapioca was talking about, why would you need offensive tank and anticarry and then have kogmaw and brand with only soraka to peel | ||
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WhiteNights
United States252 Posts
On October 22 2011 05:52 Navi wrote: rammus is a great ganker and has tons of utility but his damage output against anybody who knows how to get mercs and any competent team that knows how to peel is not great if you're comfortable go with it but he's offensive tank was talking mostly for that game that tapioca was talking about, why would you need offensive tank and anticarry and then have kogmaw and brand with only soraka to peel Rammus can't really peel Renekton, Kennen, and Udyr all together if they bumrush your back line anyway. You might as well set up a team with two glass cannons and two mobile DPS so that even if two and Soraka go down whoever happens to be left can still clean up. Also the fact that somebody has to be dealing with the offensive tank means that they're not busy killing your glass cannons, and tying down Ezreal for five seconds is probably more effective at keeping your team alive than holding down Udyr for two. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
On October 22 2011 04:55 TheYango wrote: I don't think these damage comparisons are relevant to that game, is the thing. You have Kog, Irelia, Brand. Damage is NOT the department where your carries are lacking--your weakness is lack of defensive CC for the purpose of protecting 2 carries that both have no escapes-compounded by the fact that your chosen support, Soraka, ALSO does not offer that sort of protection. Your jungler absolutely needed to be one that could transition into being a defensive support lategame, not a damage dealer. In terms of jungle control/ganking, Rammus was fine, but where he's lacking is that his protective power simply did not meet the needs of your team. Hence why I said that Maokai and Nunu were the best picks (though Jungle Cho'gath or Alistar were also reasonable off-beat picks that might sacrifice early control). You are right, but at the same time I feel like because of the amount of single-target stuns they had, if we throw rammus at them, they'd have to pick pretty hard between throwing those stuns at rammus or keep trying to bumrush our carries, since their damage was pretty lackluster. If Ezreal tries to kite rammus, then he can just go back to killing Kennen or whatnot. If Ezreal doesn't buy CDR boots his damage and mobility goes way down in teamfight as well, and if he does buy CDR boots then 3 second taunt will absolutely demolish him in 1 flash. This is a pretty tough discussion though because I don't know how much you have actually tried to experiment with DPS rammus. I can usually tell pretty well if a build worked because it's gimmicky/opponents played bad, and when it's genuinely good. In this case I'd say it's pretty good considering I could completely insta-gib fed solo carries (3-0 swain, albeit his flash was down but him being at full health) in 3 seconds while being 0-0-0 out of jungle with just zerker greaves and wriggles. | ||
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