[Team] TL B - Page 36

On October 20 2011 20:37 Slayer91 wrote:
I kinda disagree. I've recently been playing rammus and it feels like he works best as follow up/follow through initiate with his taunt on some carry but he gets poked too hard after getting his roll stopped by a tank to initiate himself effectively I find. (You had irelia and she's good for going in first with Q E and can always disengage with passive)

He jungles very fast runed correctly especially once you get wriggles and ganks well, has good dps (especially with atmas, or phantom dancer, or even just zeal) good cc, and naturally tanky.

Like, if we still have definitions for tank and off tank I would put rammus as off tank with udyr and trundle.

On October 20 2011 21:21 Slayer91 wrote:
I honestly don't know what I'm doing in this thread. I'm just gonna stop posting lol. Sry for being an ass I guess.

On October 20 2011 20:41 necrosed wrote:
I'll just disregard most of your jungling opinions since you did said Trundle's ganks are weak. I'll just say that Trundle has one of the most fearsome ganks of the game, just behind Rammus and Xin Zhao.

Map control in League of Legends, from the jungler point of view, is to control map objectives (having timers) and control the enemy jungler's movement. If Leona was ganking, that opens the possibility of invasion or counter-ganking, depending where you're at the map.
If you just stay farming at your own jungle and not being active, you're as good as an AFK. If you like SC2, think of the jungler as a pack of zerglings. They're useless when inactive, so you have to constantly run them through the map and pressure some weak spots of the enemy.
If I see the enemy jungler ganking a lane I can't reach, I just go and invade, ward his jungle, gank another lane. Control the game and setup for some gank when his buff respawns.
A good example is the tournament game #1, where I CV'ed Lee Sin doing his red at the 9:30ish min mark (that should be the time when he respawns for the first time) and me, Astar and Soniv invaded and ganked him. From that point onwards, we controlled his red buff for the rest of the game and snowballed from there (this and that fail Malzahar gank @ bot).
What you can't do is to cower under your jungle under the pretense that the "gank wasn't safe". Go do something else in the enemy territory then. The only time when its acceptable to stay focused in your own jungle when lanes need you, is when you have been severily counterjungled and need to keep up on levels.

On October 20 2011 23:11 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Nice, I've got a 560 gtx. I pumped about $400 worth of upgrades into my rig this past summer.

On October 20 2011 23:55 Juicyfruit wrote:
Trundle's ganking choices in soloQ and in organized games are vastly different. Personally I feel like trundle is a very strong ganker IF they can't just run away. He has a very shitty way of forcing ganks on people who can expect him, and I would much rather practice ganking under the assumpion that if they're fucking pushed up to our tower, that they have a lot of stuff warded; even if they didn't, I'm still going to my ganks as if they had. That's how I expect things to work out in more "serious" games.
Jatt's ganks as trundle that end up being successful are very often when he ganks down a lane.

On October 21 2011 00:57 TheYango wrote:
On the topic of Trundle ganks, I will note that Saintvicious tends to be very conservative in how he ganks as Trundle--he'll go for obvious kills, but in general, he tries not to spend too much time waiting in a brush for a gank if he's got camps up (admittedly Saint tends to farm fairly hard as junglers in general, so he won't wait too long for ganks in general--he tends to gank rather quickly and decisively). Trundle is a jungler that you really have to get your farm going, and find your tempo as, in order to keep your pace going midgame, so if you wait around too long for ganks that turn into bluepills and just blown flashes (or worse, turn into nothing because you failed to notice that you were ganking past a ward), it can be awkward--good for getting your laners into a good place in the midgame, but sort of rough for you, as it puts you in a situation where you have to try really hard to find farm to clean up midgame, when Trundle is not that good at cleaning up/shoving lanes quickly compared to junglers like Udyr or Nocturne.

One thing to note about ganking in 5s--sometimes you just have to try light ganks to try and get a feel for ward presence. Ideally your laners can tell you the positions of the wards that get placed and their timings, but in practice, knowing ward positions is something you can't be sure about 100%. So pre-oracles, if you don't lose too much camp time doing so, you can try light ganks with the intent of seeing how the opponents respond to you. If they're unwarded you'll get kills/summoner spells/bluepills out of it, and if they have it warded, you at least can try to glean some knowledge about their ward coverage.


Related to this, it's probably most helpful not to practice ganking assuming that they have shit warded, but rather gank with the intent of trying to TELL if they have stuff warded depending on their reaction to your approach.