EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xABtW.jpg)
Game 2:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Wze1F.jpg)
[Team] TL B - Page 35
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
Game 2: | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
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ChoBz
Canada836 Posts
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dnastyx
United States2707 Posts
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
http://www.own3d.tv/live/95791 | ||
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dnastyx
United States2707 Posts
(PS I think Tap made the right call there, dunno why he was ignored, and I dunno WHY YOU GUYS WHINED ABOUT IT FOR SO LONG HOLY CRAP) | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
-I assume this game wasn't totally serious cause of the picks. They made like absolutely no sense whatsoever but I don't see why you are trolling in normals when you probably have very little practice time. Can't you play ranked 5's on US? That's what everyone does on EU -You apparently haven't gotten over the solo queue jungling mentality of monopoly style "lane is pushed, jungler ganks-->collect kills". The thing about 5's play is that ganking is mostly about finding a way of getting through their ward coverage with stuff like lane/brush ganks, counterganks, pink wards oracles and simply getting thruogh a whole in their coverage. Tap was getting a lot of shit for what seemed to be perfectly fine play. The 2 mistakes I saw in his early game play were 2 ganks bot which he was pressured into by team asking him for ganks constantly, even though there weren't too many opportunities. He picked up some nice clean kills and secured dragons which is more than you should expect from a jungler in ranked 5's. Also support complaining to jungler about not timing dragon is pretty lolsy since he has to worry about smiting it while not getting jumped on in a vulnerable position. -Your ward coverage seems pretty much just "ward dragon and baron whenever we feel like it l0l" -You should always make sure everyone is on the same page for dragon the whole team should be ready with top lane coming down. At higher levels if you don't get your top to run down they will and pick it up first. If you have to trade top tower thats fine because top tower is going to die at some point since its so isolated and top is going to keep farming all day. -People ignoring a pretty direct warning that they would get baron and ends up costing you guys the game because it turned into a flame war. People doing random shit all the time cause nobody was focused. -Team had no direction at all. There was no "We're 2 dragons up just maintain dragon control take the outer turrets ward their jungler control buffs and then bait out baron" type plans to win. Or "We're behind just defend turrets until baron is up and make sure we're ready for second baron" Seemed to lack strong leadership. -Generally everyone is all grumpy and negative all the time. Rhavanna seemed to keep it pretty professional with the whole stay positive and trying to carry but not taking it too seriously. Apologized for not playing seriously while being the only one playing worth a damn. Issues tap was having seemed pretty stupid. Tap was making a valid rant and everyone was generally being a dick about it. It's like -Tap only one making any calls about anything -People ignoring tap and throwing the game -Tap brings it up -Everyone ignores tap//or and complains that tap is ruining the fun It's basically the team leaders job to complain about people doing stupid things before they start doing it in real games and from what I saw he was very very strongly shunned to the point it totally puts you off doing it at all. Tap brought up a simple issue of someone CLEARLY being in the wrong and its all taps fault for being a party pooper I didn't understand it. I find it much more fun to play seriously and with a goal trying to win games against good people then randomly trolling around and if you want to troll around why are you playing in TL B? Sorry if I got a bit ranty there I dunno if you guys care but thats my input on what I've seen of TL B as a serious team. I'm not exactly an expert here I'm just applying common sense. Also generally people who are farming all day are not at fault its the fault of the team not having a clear objective that would be superior to farming other than the solo q mentality of "lets walk around and wait for idiots to derp into brushes and break out into a teamfight". | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
Anyway, night. Didn't sleep last night so turning in early. | ||
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necrosed
Brazil885 Posts
First of all, it all started when I said that I wanted to jungle Riven, since I was training that. So Tap just goes and picks Trundle (: Ok, got trolled, so I would at least have some fun playing Blitzcrank. Taking into account that I'm mainly a jungler and my main champion is Trundle, "what seemed to be perfect play" was really just mediocre. His ganks were just not right. He would wait for me to initiate sometimes where the lane was just clear for him to W -> run towards them -> E. He started with E and they just got away many many times. I was complaining because he missed oportunities while he was AT OUR SIDE, not because there wasn't many, Pick some nice clean kills and secure dragons isn't more than you should expect from a jungler in fives. The least you should expect from a decent jungler at 5s, at the level we play, is to control the map properly, something which he wasn't doing. Support was complaining to jungler about not keeping times because I do that all the time when jungling - I always keep in mind when I used smite or when dragon died, doesn't matter if we were in the middle of a really big teamfight or not. Also, I can do simple math from my smite cooldown after everything chills out. I confess I played poorly, but I wasn't serious from the beginning of that game when I said "I wanna jungle Riven" in all caps (because my vent push to talk button is Caps Lock  ) and tap just goes and pick Trundle. If you want to charge a serious attitude, don't go trolling when we're picking champions.It's BP's and Tap's team, so I won't say more than that. | ||
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Haemonculus
United States6980 Posts
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
I don't expect much from individual plays, that shit doesn't matter for tournament games because most of us weren't playing serious champions that we'd pick. It's not the same thing when we actually need to group up and get stuff done, because it needs to become a good habit that when a call is made (not just by me, but by anyone who feels confident enough to make a call) that we don't ignore it. Believe me, I know when I should and shouldn't gank. What seemed to you as good ganks opportunities didn't seem good at all to me considering the threat of enemy jungle since our side had zero ward coverage and no good cv's. | ||
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dnastyx
United States2707 Posts
And slayer, they played a lot better in the tourney game, but thanks for the input. And yeah, one day Tap will learn to gank. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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dnastyx
United States2707 Posts
EDIT: Basically what Tap said though (ohgod i'm agreeing with tap what is this world coming to) | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
I just want Tap to be able to give constructive criticism without sounding so abrasive. Once people feel like their being yelled at, they don't want to listen anymore. <3 Annnnnnnd end of discussion. | ||
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De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
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Navi
5286 Posts
i think loae or soniv said they had it so u can watch that one instead | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
edit: sry for doublepost got carried away in my little jungler theorycraft corner. edit2: Just read past to page 21 and apparently tap rage has an insanely long history and everyone thought rammus was a bad jungler LOLOL | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On October 20 2011 10:33 necrosed wrote: His ganks were just not right. He would wait for me to initiate sometimes where the lane was just clear for him to W -> run towards them -> E. He started with E and they just got away many many times. I was complaining because he missed oportunities while he was AT OUR SIDE, not because there wasn't many, Pick some nice clean kills and secure dragons isn't more than you should expect from a jungler in fives. The least you should expect from a decent jungler at 5s, at the level we play, is to control the map properly, something which he wasn't doing. His ganks were not right because they had it warded most of the time and just ran away as soon as he got to tribush. And if he didn't, in your competitive games you should assume they do. Usually actually getting a teammember to bait (not initiate) is a good way to get past ward coverage beacuse they overcommit. Combined with the fact that trundle isn't amazing at ganks (he wants to fight AT a pillar not just use it to slow someone for 2 seconds) meant that any early kills bot were flukey at best. Explain control the map? The only thing he didn't do was counter jungle leona when she went ganking. Could have have ganked cho? Not really, they got a couple ganks on cho and never killed. The only time that would have been a good time to gank cho that he would have died for when he was pressured into bot. I always make my worst jungling decisions when pressured by other people. He coludn't have ganked mid either, brand wasn't really overextended from what I saw. Trundle is generally a weak ganker he is better at teamfights and counter ganks. Like, I saw leonas ganks that were supposedly so amazing and it was laughable. Teemo died because he was running around trolling leona for 5 minutes not scared at all then dies suddenely to double cc and redbuff. Leona blew a flash on kassadin which did no long term damage and leona can gank mid far better than trundle. People seem to throw around the term map control without explaining it. It has a clear definition in sc2. In LoL it's not so clear cut. If it's "who can roam around freely" generally ward coverage combined with player presence defines it. If you gank top as a jungler you generally give map control away to the bottom half of the map and it makes it more viable to tower dive bot as a jungler especially with mid coming down (where their mid can't immediately follow because of the jungler+mid 2v1) and also dragon. But just farming jungle keeps you available to stop that kind of 4 man tower dive and defend dragon and even counter gank if you are close enough and see their jungler coming with a ward The fact that blitz/talon was getting pushed constantly is because blitz is a shitty support and you just end up being zoned at tower and even if jungler comes if you don't get a kill you're back to square one. Unless you are a god like blitz with insane hooks or something. Combined with talon being a ranged who can't deal with very long ranged ADs like others can its an awkward lane. But again, trolling in normals I'm not referencing the game, I'm referencing your pre-concieved notions of what a jungler should do, and from what I can see you usually jungle as well. Kind of like skill shots, ganks are dependent on the both sides. If you gank well and get lots of kills it's also your enemy getting bad. In high level very few people die to ganks but when they do happen they have a large impact on the game and more than 1 kill tends to shut people out of the game. (Unless you're skyyart nasus :3 but they still lost all map control around top for the first 20 minutes or so) | ||
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dnastyx
United States2707 Posts
edit2: Just read past to page 21 and apparently tap rage has an insanely long history and everyone thought rammus was a bad jungler LOLOL Everyone thought Rammus was a terrible pick for that game...because Rammus was a terrible pick for that game. Unless you're talking about necrosed's opinion, which he's free to have. Don't know how you came up with "everyone" though. | ||
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