EPTOn October 12 2011 15:31 BlackPaladin wrote:
lol no, that's like telling Shake to duo with gtrsrs. Not gonna happen.
Big wall of text incoming:
The major problems stem from this, and I'm going to be as blunt as possible about it. I want the team to work but there are major issues.
1. Tapioca Rage
Most of the old TL B had problems and wanted to stop playing with TL B because of the legendary "tapioca rage." From what I remember, Tapioca did improve on that a bit since I first began playing with him in the old TL B team. Now there is a new team, and the people who enjoyed playing together now play with other TL members in this new TL team. But the old tapioca rage is still alive and strong.
I say "no rage" very often and then the response like 2 minutes later is "WHY YOU SO BAD YOU SHOULD DO THIS NOT THAT." When you're concentrating on the game you do NOT need such things. Ever. It does NOT improve your game when someone is yelling at you HOW you do something while you're trying to play. You will not learn how to do something while in the game when someone is yelling at you and you're trying to concentrate.
That's not something I need to work on with tap. That's something Tapioca needs to personally work on himself, because it's his own personality issue. It's that rage which pushes a lot of people away and causes them to not want to listen anymore. Basically, it gets them fed up. The thing is, I'm the most vocal about it, because I not only want the team to work but I want to be able to play with Tapioca without needing to listen to such things. So it seems like this "hate" stems from me, but everyone has similar feelings about this. This is one of the biggest problems at this moment. Tap needs to learn to control HIMSELF before he can control the team.
2. Listening and the role of an ingame leader
A big problem recently has been "listening to calls." You can argue that the team needs to learn to "listen to the calls no matter what even if it's wrong." But the problem is that, perhaps it's just the pressure got to Tap or his own personal lack of map awareness but he makes a lot of calls that are just outright wrong. like 150% wrong and in any serious game would not only cost us the game but could cost us tournament money simply because of his stubbornness of "you should follow me because I'm the leader."
A really good example can be from last nights game where I played nidalee mid vs akali. After a fight bot we lost 1 and killed 1. Tap tells us to dragon. Akali was mid lane. Our jungle fiddle was oom. Rhavanna did no damage. Akali can burst me to half health with 1 qr auto. We could NOT dragon in that situation. Akali was able to 1v2 fiddle + me when we were both full health and nearly full mana. She then had those 2 kills, was even more farmed, and fiddle was now in this situation oom. There. Was. No. Possible. Way. We. Could. Have. Dragoned. But instead of beleiving us Tap goes on a ragefest for like 20 more minutes. You speak of "not trusting your calls" but you don't trust your entire team telling you otherwise. That's a big problem.
But I don't believe in the first place that the main ingame leader makes 100% of the calls. I believe the main leader makes slightly more calls than the rest of the team. We should in games always talk actively like "we could possibly try to steal their blue" or "maybe we should force a dragon fight, we're stronger, what do you guys think?" If lanes ask for ganks Tap should not go "no don't help that lane, screw them." The jungler should instead help them apply pressure.
That brings me to me 3rd main problem I notice
3. Jungling as a whole
One big thing about Tap is that he always thinks if a lane is "ungankable" it's meaningless to even go there. That makes it so that there is NO pressure on that lane so they can do whatever the fuck they want, and that's just really really bad play. The enemy just knowing the jungle is near their lane is going to play more passively, and that can make a whole world of difference in lane and can allow you to farm better or play more aggressive yourself. Just the jungle being there makes a world of difference. You don't even need them to gank.
loae talked about this a lot tonight too and tried to teach Astarwulf a bit about it. I think one of the largest weaknesses of our entire team is our jungle. It's partially why loae either HAS TO jungle for us or we're going to lose any real tourny because he's the only one who really knows and applies a lot of knowledge about such things into the game (where enemy warded, jungle timers, where to CV, jungle routes, how to gank, where to gank, how to apply pressure where it's needed, etc)
I think that sums up a lot of the problems we're facing atm. What we really need is a good dedicated jungler. One who really understands the game well, at least to loae's level of understanding when it comes to the jungle and gameflow as a whole. That would make loae and chobz be able to practice together more because we won't need to rely on loae needing to jungle for us. Obviously we all also need practice ourselves (gandhi, me, soniv, rhav, etc) but if the jungle can properly apply pressure or bring map control for our team then that makes up for many issue's lanes might have (being counterpicked, being outplayed, being ganked too often, etc)
lol no, that's like telling Shake to duo with gtrsrs. Not gonna happen.
Big wall of text incoming:
The major problems stem from this, and I'm going to be as blunt as possible about it. I want the team to work but there are major issues.
1. Tapioca Rage
Most of the old TL B had problems and wanted to stop playing with TL B because of the legendary "tapioca rage." From what I remember, Tapioca did improve on that a bit since I first began playing with him in the old TL B team. Now there is a new team, and the people who enjoyed playing together now play with other TL members in this new TL team. But the old tapioca rage is still alive and strong.
I say "no rage" very often and then the response like 2 minutes later is "WHY YOU SO BAD YOU SHOULD DO THIS NOT THAT." When you're concentrating on the game you do NOT need such things. Ever. It does NOT improve your game when someone is yelling at you HOW you do something while you're trying to play. You will not learn how to do something while in the game when someone is yelling at you and you're trying to concentrate.
That's not something I need to work on with tap. That's something Tapioca needs to personally work on himself, because it's his own personality issue. It's that rage which pushes a lot of people away and causes them to not want to listen anymore. Basically, it gets them fed up. The thing is, I'm the most vocal about it, because I not only want the team to work but I want to be able to play with Tapioca without needing to listen to such things. So it seems like this "hate" stems from me, but everyone has similar feelings about this. This is one of the biggest problems at this moment. Tap needs to learn to control HIMSELF before he can control the team.
2. Listening and the role of an ingame leader
A big problem recently has been "listening to calls." You can argue that the team needs to learn to "listen to the calls no matter what even if it's wrong." But the problem is that, perhaps it's just the pressure got to Tap or his own personal lack of map awareness but he makes a lot of calls that are just outright wrong. like 150% wrong and in any serious game would not only cost us the game but could cost us tournament money simply because of his stubbornness of "you should follow me because I'm the leader."
A really good example can be from last nights game where I played nidalee mid vs akali. After a fight bot we lost 1 and killed 1. Tap tells us to dragon. Akali was mid lane. Our jungle fiddle was oom. Rhavanna did no damage. Akali can burst me to half health with 1 qr auto. We could NOT dragon in that situation. Akali was able to 1v2 fiddle + me when we were both full health and nearly full mana. She then had those 2 kills, was even more farmed, and fiddle was now in this situation oom. There. Was. No. Possible. Way. We. Could. Have. Dragoned. But instead of beleiving us Tap goes on a ragefest for like 20 more minutes. You speak of "not trusting your calls" but you don't trust your entire team telling you otherwise. That's a big problem.
But I don't believe in the first place that the main ingame leader makes 100% of the calls. I believe the main leader makes slightly more calls than the rest of the team. We should in games always talk actively like "we could possibly try to steal their blue" or "maybe we should force a dragon fight, we're stronger, what do you guys think?" If lanes ask for ganks Tap should not go "no don't help that lane, screw them." The jungler should instead help them apply pressure.
That brings me to me 3rd main problem I notice
3. Jungling as a whole
One big thing about Tap is that he always thinks if a lane is "ungankable" it's meaningless to even go there. That makes it so that there is NO pressure on that lane so they can do whatever the fuck they want, and that's just really really bad play. The enemy just knowing the jungle is near their lane is going to play more passively, and that can make a whole world of difference in lane and can allow you to farm better or play more aggressive yourself. Just the jungle being there makes a world of difference. You don't even need them to gank.
loae talked about this a lot tonight too and tried to teach Astarwulf a bit about it. I think one of the largest weaknesses of our entire team is our jungle. It's partially why loae either HAS TO jungle for us or we're going to lose any real tourny because he's the only one who really knows and applies a lot of knowledge about such things into the game (where enemy warded, jungle timers, where to CV, jungle routes, how to gank, where to gank, how to apply pressure where it's needed, etc)
I think that sums up a lot of the problems we're facing atm. What we really need is a good dedicated jungler. One who really understands the game well, at least to loae's level of understanding when it comes to the jungle and gameflow as a whole. That would make loae and chobz be able to practice together more because we won't need to rely on loae needing to jungle for us. Obviously we all also need practice ourselves (gandhi, me, soniv, rhav, etc) but if the jungle can properly apply pressure or bring map control for our team then that makes up for many issue's lanes might have (being counterpicked, being outplayed, being ganked too often, etc)
several things:
shake and guitar aren't on the same team? idk if there's some love hate relationship but idgaf
1. me and yango and milo didn't leave tl b cuz of tapioca's rage, there were just too many players for any set lineup to get reasonably consistent play and we played together before TL B was formed anyway
idk about other guys and their reasoning but the rage wasn't all permeating
if there's rage problems and you're the most vocal about it, duoing with tapioca and getting him to rage less in duos will help a lot and probably translate to 5s games quicker than you expect
everyone rages to some extent in this game, even the chillest gamers can get annoyed at some point or another. learning to deal with it and to help others get better at it is on both the teammates' and the rager's shoulders.
2. if the calls that he's making are inherently wrong a lot, then maybe you should consider switching leaders. and likewise, tap should trust his teammates advice and be able to take it real time and trasnlate it into different calls if his calls are shifty. or just play bw and get better map awareness and make better calls.
3. if you think there's a problem and you know what the fix is, then duo and help tapioca fix that problem.
you and i can type all you want, but if you want something, you gotta put in the time to see improvement. 5s and scrims are also great, but with the way things work between tapioca and you and the team, the easiest way to see improvement (and most flexible considering only 2 people need to be available) imo would be duo queueing. i think that duo queueing will help from personal experience and just seeing you guys play and talk, and if you're not willing to try it i would say its a fault of yours in the face of the overall problems facing the team.
