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On July 04 2011 06:42 Tooplark wrote:
My unconventional builds:
Triforce roam Gragas with smite for counterjungling (still not sure how well this one actually works)
CDR-rush Zilean (kindlegem + ionians + runes/masteries = 40% CDR for <2k gold)
Solotop Spellvamp Nunu, pioneered by I forget who unfortunately, but they inspired me to try it myself (rush revolver and spirit visage)
Double Zeal Mundo, which is exactly what it sounds like
Btw its much more cost-efficient to just rush Phantom Dancer. o_o
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On July 04 2011 06:17 BlueBird. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 05:55 spinesheath wrote:
Imo for botlane Ashe in EU style games you actually should consider CDR Ashe again. IE is clearly superior against teams with several really tanky champs, but when there are 2 APs taking solo lanes then Volley spam is REALLY good. I've tried the CDR build recently, but I don't have much mana for volley spam, do you need to run mana regen blues as well?
Yep. I'm currently trying out this build:
21/9/0
offense: taking 4/4 CDR (and 15% MPen for the lulz), Exhaust mastery, 3/3 Apen of course, 2/2 minion damage for ezmode lasthitting, the rest should be obvious.
defense: 3/3 mres, 3/3 SoS, 2/3 armor, 1/2 reduced minion damage
APen/MP5L/MP5L/APen
Boots+3 or DBlade depending on the matchup and a coin toss
Then it goes something like this:
Brutalizer -> Kindlegem -> IE -> PD
Boots depending on the game: CDR, Zerkers, Swifties, Mercs
If you feel you need extra defenses early, get the Ruby Crystal instead of DBlades.
Sometimes you want to finish that Reverie for some extra CDR, MP5 and the ultimate initiation combo: Cast Arrow, charge in with Reverie! Your support won't have the money to afford a Reverie anytime soon, anyways.
Ghostblade is a good item even without the increased duration on the active, but currently I feel that the flow of this build is really good and getting that Ghostblade before an IE might mess it up. I haven't tried it yet though.
You will still be rather short on mana even with double MP5L, but it's manageable.
The idea behind this build is that the standard EU lineup doesn't come with a lot of armor - basically only the jungler builds armor and some supports provide armor auras/buffs. The main damage dealers are the solo laners who are typically dealing magic damage so your enemies will have to build MRes over Armor on most champs. That leaves you with a perfect setup for Volley spam to shine during midgame: Low armor values against high flat APen.
Another reason to focus on Volley is that around level 6-13 or so, Ashe can't really autoattack burst casters very well as they will just kill her.
I do not advise this build against champs like Singed. For killing high armor melee targets, IE->LW is definitely superior right now.
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On July 04 2011 06:47 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 06:42 Tooplark wrote:
My unconventional builds:
Triforce roam Gragas with smite for counterjungling (still not sure how well this one actually works)
CDR-rush Zilean (kindlegem + ionians + runes/masteries = 40% CDR for <2k gold)
Solotop Spellvamp Nunu, pioneered by I forget who unfortunately, but they inspired me to try it myself (rush revolver and spirit visage)
Double Zeal Mundo, which is exactly what it sounds like Btw its much more cost-efficient to just rush Phantom Dancer. o_o
You're right, it is after the cost reduction to critcloak. Double Zeal still feels trollier, though.
Followup is either IE, Warmogs, or Randuins.
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On July 04 2011 02:43 ketchup wrote:
The above is when I start having serious problems with what you are typing. I AM dubious about your postings/claims when you start typing out the things such as Morde having the best mid-game of any other jungler.
Fair enough. I'm not good enough with every jungler to really say without qualification that he's better than everyone else, so we can maybe call that an exaggeration in some respects. He has a strong midgame, but so do some others. Call him a good jungle, maybe a tier below Nocturne for example. That said:
On July 04 2011 02:43 ketchup wrote: Is he really faster than a Nunu jungle?
Yes.
On July 04 2011 02:43 ketchup wrote: Does he really do more than Nunu can in mid-game?
God, yes. He just doesn't have as much CC until he gets his Bilgewater.
On July 04 2011 02:43 ketchup wrote: I can also say the same of an amumu jungle. I believe amumu has quite an easy stun-lock combo that I have a hard time placing Morde even before him. I can't imagine that at all.
A good way to look at it is that Morde is better at the little things, and Mumu is better at the immediately apparent things. Morde can farm much faster and more safely: he is not easily counterjungled. Mumu on the other hand is extremely vulnerable in his jungle and dependent on getting the blue buff. He has much more CC and utility in some respects, and is more directly useful in some teamfights: but that's only if he can make it through the early game without getting his jungle crippled by a strong opposing jungle (eg. morde!). It's easy also to look at Mumu's ult and say that he is much better overall, until you realize that Morde getting a single Caitlyn or Ashe ghost can often instantly end the game.
On July 04 2011 02:43 ketchup wrote:Just calling him the best jungle seems like overlooking a few of the other well known(and easier!) champs.
Sorry, I don't believe I called him the 'best' jungle (except in Brasil, huehue). Just really strong in some respects.
On July 04 2011 02:43 ketchup wrote:I'm pretty sure some of my phrasing is really bad. Sorry
Mine too 
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i don't think mumu is really that vulnerable in his jungle
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
You guys haven't jungled Urgot.
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I've been trying Rumble Jungle during the time I wanted to practice him and nobody would jungle (also, I got rolled by ManyReason with it). I'm not exactly sure how to optimally build him, but QQing your way through the camps is reasonably fast, and you can give out blues from lvl 1 since he doesn't need them at all.
His ganks are super scary because if you hit E they have to blow summoners, and Q does a crapton of damage. Most importantly, once you hit 6, his retarded ult range can let you setup hilarious ganks/counterganks which they can't see coming.
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smiteless jungle yi.
go whatever the fuck you want.
roll face.
true story.
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On July 05 2011 01:48 Soloside wrote:
smiteless jungle yi.
go whatever the fuck you want.
roll face.
true story.
Could you post the guide again? Too hard to find in a 900+ page thread even with google.
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So I've been trying Odds' jungle morde. I must say I'm 2:1 with it right now in ranked and the one loss was 4v5 which we almost won.
Will try it some more, but doing it in normals is too ez and trying it in ranked is too hard as 90% of the time people start crying and q dodge.
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On July 05 2011 04:42 Ryuu314 wrote:
So I've been trying Odds' jungle morde. I must say I'm 2:1 with it right now in ranked and the one loss was 4v5 which we almost won.
Will try it some more, but doing it in normals is too ez and trying it in ranked is too hard as 90% of the time people start crying and q dodge.
Awesome. I think i still recommend the specific build with armor quints and 1/21/8 into sorc shoes, bilgewater-> hextech, and actually follow it with triforce before tank items: you're not terribly quick until your triforce is done, but you do loads of damage in battles and get the bilgewater insanely fast because you can start with a vamp scepter.
What's your summoner name?
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United States47024 Posts
On July 04 2011 13:27 Odds wrote:
A good way to look at it is that Morde is better at the little things, and Mumu is better at the immediately apparent things. Morde can farm much faster and more safely: he is not easily counterjungled. Mumu on the other hand is extremely vulnerable in his jungle and dependent on getting the blue buff. He has much more CC and utility in some respects, and is more directly useful in some teamfights: but that's only if he can make it through the early game without getting his jungle crippled by a strong opposing jungle (eg. morde!). It's easy also to look at Mumu's ult and say that he is much better overall, until you realize that Morde getting a single Caitlyn or Ashe ghost can often instantly end the game.
Somewhat off-topic, but this is actually a huge misconception IMO. Amumu is not that easy to counterjungle, and he is reasonably safe.
1) He has one of the fastest clears of any of the popular junglers. This makes it hard for anyone to take his camps, without him reciprocating. Against slower junglers, you can actually accomplish blue->wraith jack yourself at almost zero risk.
2) He can start pretty much anywhere, including counterjungle starts like a level 1 wraith jack. Blue maximizes speed, but he's fast enough anyway that he won't fall behind with small jungle clears, even if he loses his blue. He has to jungle more defensively and can't gank as often, but his pre-6 ganks aren't terribly strong anyway.
3) Post-Philo you drop your blue dependence.
4) Running 21-defense and starting cloth+5pot (which both TheOddOne and Dan Dinh do), you can finish a full clear with near full HP and 1-2 pots remaining, depending on how good your leash was and what runes you use. You're not at risk anywhere during your first clear. The base stat and E buff were huge for this, as previously Amumu did get pretty damn low in the jungle. Regrowth starts are more fragile, but that's an intentional tradeoff for a faster Philo Stone.
5) You have a mobility skill in the jungle that, depending on where you are in the jungle, and what camps are up, can act as an escape. If you get caught at red and don't think you can fight, you don't even need to blow Flash, just bandage to your minigols, and walk out.
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On July 05 2011 03:30 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 01:48 Soloside wrote:
smiteless jungle yi.
go whatever the fuck you want.
roll face.
true story. Could you post the guide again? Too hard to find in a 900+ page thread even with google.
Your wish is my command.
On May 04 2011 12:13 BloodNinja wrote:It is TOO LATE. I have found it: Show nested quote +SCENE: A dark room, with a desk and desklamp at its center.
SOLOSIDE: My young padawan, today I shall teach you the secret to jungling without Smite with Master Yi.
HAZMAT: Yes, my lord?
SOLOSIDE: You press Q.
HAZMAT: Yes?
SOLOSIDE: And click on some random creep.
HAZMAT: And?
SOLOSIDE: And that is it.
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On July 05 2011 04:58 Odds wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 04:42 Ryuu314 wrote:
So I've been trying Odds' jungle morde. I must say I'm 2:1 with it right now in ranked and the one loss was 4v5 which we almost won.
Will try it some more, but doing it in normals is too ez and trying it in ranked is too hard as 90% of the time people start crying and q dodge. Awesome. I think i still recommend the specific build with armor quints and 1/21/8 into sorc shoes, bilgewater-> hextech, and actually follow it with triforce before tank items: you're not terribly quick until your triforce is done, but you do loads of damage in battles and get the bilgewater insanely fast because you can start with a vamp scepter. What's your summoner name?
Caesor.
I open with 1/21/8 with armor quints and regrowth+pot. Will probably try vamp scepter first next time I manage to land a jungle morde lol
EDIT: Taking advantage of chat being down to spam jungle morde 'cause this way teammates can't yell at me 
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How many champs do you think make good use of triforce as a primary item? Here's my list:
Corki
Blitzcrank (standard)
Ezreal
Gangplank
Gragas
Irelia (standard)
Jax
Lee Sin (no mana, but its all good)
Maokai
Morde (after gunblade if you're super fed)
Nasus (standard)
Nunu
Poppy
Trundle
Twisted Fate
Urgot
Vayne
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OK, so I got no response in the general discussion thread, so I'd probably get a better response here.
On Hybrid characters like Kayle and Ezreal, I have been trying a PD build, but I don't think it is very standard. It basically goes Zerker boots > Phantom Dancer > Hybrid Items (Rageblade for kayle, whatever for Ezreal).
I have had quite a bit of success with the build on Kayle, but I haven't played Ez enough to know if it really works.
Would this build work at like 14-1500 elo, or does it only work because I am facing scrubs?
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On July 05 2011 12:39 57 Corvette wrote:
OK, so I got no response in the general discussion thread, so I'd probably get a better response here.
On Hybrid characters like Kayle and Ezreal, I have been trying a PD build, but I don't think it is very standard. It basically goes Zerker boots > Phantom Dancer > Hybrid Items (Rageblade for kayle, whatever for Ezreal).
I have had quite a bit of success with the build on Kayle, but I haven't played Ez enough to know if it really works.
Would this build work at like 14-1500 elo, or does it only work because I am facing scrubs?
PD rushing is only when facing scrubs.
Your ezrael will be terribly behind in damage output rushing zerks + pd.
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On July 05 2011 12:39 57 Corvette wrote:
OK, so I got no response in the general discussion thread, so I'd probably get a better response here.
On Hybrid characters like Kayle and Ezreal, I have been trying a PD build, but I don't think it is very standard. It basically goes Zerker boots > Phantom Dancer > Hybrid Items (Rageblade for kayle, whatever for Ezreal).
I have had quite a bit of success with the build on Kayle, but I haven't played Ez enough to know if it really works.
Would this build work at like 14-1500 elo, or does it only work because I am facing scrubs?
Ezrael isn't hybrid lol, anyone building Ez hybrid should build udyr kennen and pant hybrid aswell(and many others).
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On July 05 2011 16:07 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 12:39 57 Corvette wrote:
OK, so I got no response in the general discussion thread, so I'd probably get a better response here.
On Hybrid characters like Kayle and Ezreal, I have been trying a PD build, but I don't think it is very standard. It basically goes Zerker boots > Phantom Dancer > Hybrid Items (Rageblade for kayle, whatever for Ezreal).
I have had quite a bit of success with the build on Kayle, but I haven't played Ez enough to know if it really works.
Would this build work at like 14-1500 elo, or does it only work because I am facing scrubs? Ezrael isn't hybrid lol, anyone building Ez hybrid should build udyr kennen and pant hybrid aswell(and many others).
kennen works better being a stunbot ad carry.
true story.
you WILL beat 99% of people in a solo lane.
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EPT
