EPTUnconventional, non-troll builds. - Page 3
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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Odds
Canada1188 Posts
On July 03 2011 09:07 Slayer91 wrote: You're making a big fuss about nothing. You're just having double standards here. You said: "Why use another champion" as a rebuttal to something". My point is that it should be given that he's not the right champion to pick as a jungler but he's not like some auto lose champion. Sure, he can jungle. Is he the best choice for the job in any situation? No. So don't use "don't play him this way because other champions can do it better" as an argument. Jungle mordekaizer viable? Sure, my jungle nasus is viable too, but I wouldn't pick jungle nasus if I were in an important ranked 5's team. I can see why you want to go 21 defense, but sacrificing a bit of sustainability seems fine. magic penetration is really good and so is the movement speed and cdr from utility, and you need the buff duration. I would probably go 21 defense as well. The primary reason mord is a great jungle is he clears it faster and more sustainably than anyone else. You can use that to farm insanely fast and essentially behave as a third solo Lane that also ganks other lanes sometimes and shuts down the enemy jungle. It makes sense, then, to use your runes and masteries in service of getting that farm really quickly and safely, rather than gimping your farm in favor of making your crappy level 4 gank slightly better. Consistency is important in strategy, and while 21 utility is certainly good, I dont think its optimal. I could be wrong about that, but it just hasnt worked as well for me for these reasons. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
dblade rageblade gunblade whatever Also triforce cho with all tank items after kinda wrecks face too from top lane. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On July 03 2011 11:14 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Also triforce cho with all tank items after kinda wrecks face too from top lane. I've known this for a long time. Another good choice is triforce karthus solo top, he's got some insane dmg. | ||
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Attakijing
United States693 Posts
On July 03 2011 11:14 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Hybrid trist is really good btw: dblade rageblade gunblade whatever Also triforce cho with all tank items after kinda wrecks face too from top lane. atma's would be really cool on triforce cho | ||
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Odds
Canada1188 Posts
On July 03 2011 09:40 gtrsrs wrote: that's the thing though - the jungle has a set amount of gold you can get per clear, not per time cleared. clearing the jungle fast gives you an opportunity to gank, but in no way can mordekaiser be considered a good or even optimal ganker. so you clear your jungle really fast and then what? steal farm from your lanes? run into the enemy jungle? morde has no CC or escapes so counterjungling is risky at best. you can't treat the jungle like a solo lane because you simply don't get the farm that a solo lane does. that's why junglers are being relegated to support roles - ganks are hard to pull off even with a champ with CC, and you don't get the item advantage to carry. morde just doesn't offer anything that another jungler doesn't do better. take a look at the best/most used jungling champs right now - nunu, warwick, xin zhao, jarvan, etc. they all have at least 1 form of CC, and many/most have a buff that they can give to their true carry. morde has an armor/MR shield and some nukes. granted, i do think his ult is really really good when used properly, but then you have to ask yourself if giving up an entire champ slot just for a single skill is really worth it? and i think that you'll find most people will say no, it's not, and pick a different/better jungler You make a lot of damn solid points, actually. After you've cleared your jungle, you have a couple options. If a lane is pushed, you can go gank it: you probably won't (but surprisingly often do) get a kill, but you've done your job at least in terms of making the laner waste one or both summoners. Running into the enemy jungle is a pretty solid option, actually, because of how fast you can clear creeps. You can steal wraiths in particular faster than any other jungler, by far, because of your insane AoE damage, and do so at little risk, especially if you have a red buff. You do an enormous amount of upfront burst with just your Q, and you can typically force them to retreat before their lane can come to assist: and of course you then abscond with as much haste as is possible. A tad risky, but no more so than if you were to do it with Warwick. You obviously just can't really do it if your ghost is down. 'Stealing farm' from the lanes is pretty legitimate as well, in some circumstances. After a gank, if you get a kill, (or 2 bot) you can very often straight up kill the tower because of, again, Morde being Morde. If not, you can still help the laner clear the creep wave instantly, and then get HIS help in causing trouble in the enemy jungle, or ganking, or whatever. He misses out on a bit of farm, but the tradeoff is usually worth it, particularly because the tower will take a bunch of damage from all the creeps, and the lane opponents will obviously lose a lot of farm to the tower while they're dead/forced to retreat. When you're doing this to every lane, it can be extremely frustrating for the enemy team to maintain any sort of map control, because your team is free to run willy-nilly all over the place with little penalty while damaging towers. Also, your ganks suck at the beginning, granted: but morde has a much, MUCH better midgame than most, and maybe all other junglers. After you get your Bilgewater (which you can get much faster if you open 1/21/8 and vamp scepter, which is why I advocate those for now), Morde is suddenly an insane ganker with a 3s 50% slow and unparalleled damage output. Plus, if you get a ghost, that person can pretty much instantly kiss their tower goodbye, or even better, if it's mid/bot, you get a free dragon. This gets even better, obviously, when you get the full Hextech upgrade. Hextech -> Q -> W -> E -> Q -> R HURTS. I may have to give some more tries to 1/8/21 or something and the MS% quints, because you make a good point about ganking. It may be worth it. Anyway, I hope this makes a bit more sense now. Morde sucks a bit at the early levels, but he gets past the early levels quickly and has an absolutely monstrous mid- and end-game if played correctly. | ||
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SirGlinG
Sweden933 Posts
Unconventional is probably my key word for what's enjoyable with lol. A favourite of mine, for some kind of contribution to the thread, is 5tank all fortify. When people never has faced such a thing, for me around lvl22, there's a lot of joy to collect! Teemo is my guy though, so I'll keep my eyes open for your unconventional teemo | ||
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jtype
England2167 Posts
Again, it's an obvious point and I'm not sure how much difference this actually makes or, realistically, how much more gold can be earned by a faster jungler, but I'm sure that junglers can still put significant pressure on a team even without amazing ganks. | ||
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ketchup
14521 Posts
On July 03 2011 12:39 Odds wrote: Also, your ganks suck at the beginning, granted: but morde has a much, MUCH better midgame than most, and maybe all other junglers. The above is when I start having serious problems with what you are typing. I AM dubious about your postings/claims when you start typing out the things such as Morde having the best mid-game of any other jungler. Is he really faster than a Nunu jungle? Does he really do more than Nunu can in mid-game? I don't think so. Granted Nunu might be an exception due to how much he currently offers. I can also say the same of an amumu jungle. I believe amumu has quite an easy stun-lock combo that I have a hard time placing Morde even before him. I can't imagine that at all. I also cannot believe he has a better mid-game than these champs. For example, Nunu and Amumu with just their ultimates are no joke. Nunu is also an exceptional counter-jungle champ. If you want to call Morde a good pick, that's fine. Just calling him the best jungle seems like overlooking a few of the other well known(and easier!) champs. I'm pretty sure some of my phrasing is really bad. Sorry | ||
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iGrok
United States5142 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On July 02 2011 15:37 iGrok wrote: Posted this in the Ashe thread somewhere, but I've really updated it, sooo..... Robin-Hood Ashe The thought process behind this build was: "What attributes of characters do I find 'Annoying'? How can I make Ashe 'Annoying'? The stuff I find 'annoying' is probably really damn good." And do you know what I think the single most annoying thing in LoL is? When Warwick just won't die because he's regaining Health so fast. So I set out to build an Ashe that just wouldn't die. Then I realized that lifesteal actually works really well with Ashe, because she is naturally reliant on auto-attacks. This build is very difficult early game, but once you hit 3 items and boots becomes damn near unstoppable. It is also very dependent on enemy team composition. If they have multiple stuns, use Chauster's Ashe, not this one. Masteries: 21/0/9 Offensive tree: 3 Deadliness, 1 Archmage's Savvy, 3 Alacrity, 4 Sorcery, 3 Sunder, 3 Brute Force, 3 Lethality, 1 Havoc Utility tree: 2 Good Hands, 3 Perseverance, 4 Awareness Summoner Spells: Flash + Teleport or Flash + Cleanse (If they have multiple stuns - I would recommend going someone else if they have more than 1 stun, but Cleanse is an alternative) Runes: 9 Attack Speed Marks 9 Flat Armor Seals 9 Flat Magic Resist Glyphs 3 Attack Speed Quints Thats +25.5% Attack Speed,+12.69 Armor and + 13.41 MR. You need all of these things for early game. Skill order: WEWEWRQ;R>W>E=Q or WEWQWRE;R>W>E=Q Maxing W at level 9 has top priority because of the huge difference in cooldowns and the damage. Don't underestimate the added dps you'll deal to minions with better Volley. Get Q earlier if you opposing mid is over-aggressive so you can set up a gank, but make sure you get Hawkshot, both for the gold and for scouting ganks. This build is dependent on cashflow and not dying. If your opponents in sidelanes are being easily gankable, go Q >E. If they're playing really safe, go E>Q. Build:
If you have trouble in your lane, get both scepter and boots asap. Call in a gank if you have to just to scare them off and buy yourself some farming time. FARMING TIME IS ALSO HEALING TIME when you've got the scepter. Just keep up that autoattack! Don't be afraid to push, you've got hawkshot and flash to escape any ganks. In fact, you should be pushing - if you aren't you're probably not stealing enough health from the minions to make up for tha absent health from having no Doran's. In the beginning, you will be VERY squishy, but once your first BT is up you'll stay at full health pretty much all the time. Elixiers Red Elixir is usually good to get all game, but usually you're better off saving until you get to the second Bloodthirster. Exceptions are if you're being beaten badly in mid, if you're too squishy to farm. Green Elixier is a must after you get the second Bloodthirster. Don't underestimate the effects of combining lifesteal and attack speed. Plus you'll get your stacks up much quicker. Blue Elixir is not very important. Get it if your teammates are grabbing the blue buff. Grab the Oracle's Elixir if they're stealthing endgame. You won't die often (after your first PD) with this build, so its worth the investment. Picking off a stealther who thinks you're an easy target is fun and free money. Buffs There is one stage where you really need the buffs - between the Bloodthirsters. You need to build your stacks and earn enough money for the second one as quickly as possible. Once you have the first bloodthirster, go grab red if your jungler can spare it. Other than that, take them as needed. I tend to leave Q on, so I run short of mana. Combat Don't Die. This is really, really important. I know that Veigar has 10% health, but once you kill him you're going to die. Its more important to live, keep farming, and keep stacking. Stay out of the center of teamfights. If enemy melee is chasing you, volley and keep running. Throw your arrow if the fight isn't going on Use flash, particularly if a stun is coming. If you're low and you have the bloodthirster, heal by jungling. You should never be forced to head home for the purpose of healing. Get those Bloodthirster Stacks up as fast as you fucking can. +100 damage per shot and +25% lifesteal each. So each autoattack you're doing shittons of damage. Awesome. Every time you can sneak off to grab some jungle or minion kills and your jungler can spare them, do it. Just don't get caught on the other side of the map with no support - see paragraph 1. Once you have your first PD, grab a green and blue pot and start using only autoattacks with Frost Shot. You can just kind of 'Shark Mode' with your team and you'll start getting ridiculous numbers of kills. Continue to farm/jungle when you need health. Blue buff really comes in handy if you're leaving Q on a lot, and red buff is really nice if you die and need to farm even quicker, but not really necessary otherwise. Once you have your 2nd PD and IE, you'll be untouchable. You'll also be the only one even close to max items unless someone was seriously fed. Then you get your third PD, you'll crit every shot for over 800 easily through armor, at a very rapid (2.4ish?) rate, and be stealing half that damage in life. Basically, from now on you're an Ashe who can't be killed. You out-dps most players, you regain life stupid fast, you have slows to kite and hunt down. You have the Arrow primarily for initiating and picking off weak running enemies out of range - this isn't an AP build, don't get confused and try to do massive damage with it, Arrows are for Stuns not Damage. Use it to stun long enough to get in range with that Frost Shot, and then laugh as they try to kill you, realize they can't, try to run, and realize they still can't do that either. Remember to always follow the golden rule: Don't Fucking Die. Building up the Bloodthirster stacks is annoying :/. The only thing you have to fear is Stuns - but those are a death sentence. Silence doesn't work on you since you're an autoattacker anyways, but if you get stunned you're still ridiculously squishy. Pick off any CCers first. Remember that VOLLEY DOES NOT DO LIFESTEAL. You can initiate with volley if you like, but if you're taking damage stick to autoattacks. For bonus LoLz, once you have max items go solo the Baron. As Ashe. Without dropping below half health. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
ashe should be getting IE 99% of the time as her first item and following it up 90% of the time with either last whisper or phantom dancer 21/0/9 is standard flash/anything is standard though you see flash/exhaust more often than anything now bloodthirster doesn't synergize well with crit. it's just not a good build. if you're getting crit you might as well make your crit be worth more and get the IE. opening vamp scepter will lose you the lane against an equally skilled opponent 100% of the time, especially on ashe. your only chance to not get out-right killed by a lane opponent if you open vamp scepter is to constantly auto attack to keep your health up, but then you push the lane and the jungler kills you E before Q is totally unnecessary. frost arrows are key to ashe play, not +1g for the ~30 creep kills you'll get between level 2 and 4 honestly bloodthirster is worse on ashe than any other ranged carry because she's got no AS steroid like trist/mf and her skills don't scale off AD especially well so i'm not trying to deride you or anything but i wouldn't call this an "unconventional" build so much as a "suboptimal." trade the thirster for an IE, follow with LW/PD/both, then get defensive items. more than one PD is overkill | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
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iGrok
United States5142 Posts
Regarding E before Q, the reason I like to get it early is because she pushes so hard, and I actually use the HS to scout for ganks early on. Plus, the extra gold really does help, at least in the timings I always seem to find myself in, which is needing to b right at 1650 gold for the B.F. Sword. Opening Vamp Scepter mean you definitely need to get HS by level 4 though, since the jungler will be finishing his run. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On July 04 2011 05:42 barbsq wrote: from all my experiences with the master of unconventional builds, stuffedturkey, i'd have to say the #1 best unconventional strategy is buy gunblade. on everyone. Gunblade on every champ is pretty legit. | ||
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BlueBird.
United States3889 Posts
On July 04 2011 05:55 spinesheath wrote: Imo for botlane Ashe in EU style games you actually should consider CDR Ashe again. IE is clearly superior against teams with several really tanky champs, but when there are 2 APs taking solo lanes then Volley spam is REALLY good. I've tried the CDR build recently, but I don't have much mana for volley spam, do you need to run mana regen blues as well? | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On July 04 2011 06:17 BlueBird. wrote: I've tried the CDR build recently, but I don't have much mana for volley spam, do you need to run mana regen blues as well? just go for the oldschool chalice build, works really well with that =P Manamune also is a funny choice | ||
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
Triforce roam Gragas with smite for counterjungling (still not sure how well this one actually works) CDR-rush Zilean (kindlegem + ionians + runes/masteries = 40% CDR for <2k gold) Solotop Spellvamp Nunu, pioneered by I forget who unfortunately, but they inspired me to try it myself (rush revolver and spirit visage) Double Zeal Mundo, which is exactly what it sounds like | ||
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