[Discussion] Breaking 1600 - Page 7

On December 08 2010 06:33 Southlight wrote:
Around 16 is average, as gains tend to range from 4 to 25ish. You get more beating better players, less beating worse players.

Elo dungeon is a myth propogated by people who aren't that good. There are bad players at all levels, and each team tends to have at least one bad player as well. You're just not doing a good job figuring out who, and punishing them.

Also they say 1200 isn't even average anymore it's like top 25%. It's a tough pill for people to swallow to acknowledge they just aren't that good.

On December 08 2010 07:27 Southlight wrote:
Really? Generally-speaking all the "decent" and "good" players around that elo have the same elo too. So do the bads, but that happens everywhere. As Brees mentioned some time ago, there're some "amazing" 1600s and some "terrible" 2000s. Does that mean the 1600 doesn't deserve his elo?

On December 08 2010 07:34 xDaunt wrote:
Just out of curiosity, if you are generally good at farming and don't feed, how far could you go ELO-wise if you whored Twitch every game?

On December 08 2010 07:34 xDaunt wrote:
Just out of curiosity, if you are generally good at farming and don't feed, how far could you go ELO-wise if you whored Twitch every game?

On December 08 2010 04:47 Southlight wrote:
I disagree with almost everything said here. I think the #1 way to rise ladder is to play a hero that can farm heroes. You don't need a tank, you don't need support, if you can butcher your lane and cut people down then all you need to do is make sure you play patiently and wait for mistakes by the opponent.

Play confident. Play selfish. And adjust to what you actually have. Don't have a tank? Engage 5 seconds after combat has started; someone will initiate, guaranteed, just make sure it's not a tank initiating onto you.

Also learn to farm in sidelane, learn to play safe and avoid dying. If you play a good last-hitter you'll still get farmed. Is it slower? Yes. Doesn't mean you can't do it. And you'll need to, because sometimes you won't be able to secure solo.

On December 08 2010 07:29 Frolossus wrote:

It means that the 1600 plays better then his elo gives him credit for and the 2000 player got carried too much.

On December 08 2010 04:47 Southlight wrote:
I disagree with almost everything said here. I think the #1 way to rise ladder is to play a hero that can farm heroes. You don't need a tank, you don't need support, if you can butcher your lane and cut people down then all you need to do is make sure you play patiently and wait for mistakes by the opponent.

Play confident. Play selfish. And adjust to what you actually have. Don't have a tank? Engage 5 seconds after combat has started; someone will initiate, guaranteed, just make sure it's not a tank initiating onto you.

Also learn to farm in sidelane, learn to play safe and avoid dying. If you play a good last-hitter you'll still get farmed. Is it slower? Yes. Doesn't mean you can't do it. And you'll need to, because sometimes you won't be able to secure solo.

On December 08 2010 14:12 sylverfyre wrote:


This part has helped me out soooo much in some games, especially where I get behind, but other people just don't seem to understand.

I'll go to a sidelane that got naturally pushed by enemy minions (a bit in front of our second tower, for example.)
There's enough minions there that even if im last hitting EVERYTHING (but NOT throwing down aoes) I won't push the lane, just because there's so many ranged creeps and they're being replenished at the same rate i'm killing them (because i'm being patient and only taking last hits...)


Then our [insert someone who isnt our carry, or even is..] comes by and instantly flattens the wave. Sure, you get 500 gold now. But now that wave is going to be pushed so far out and can't be farmed anymore. When we aren't in a position to push lanes, why do this?

On December 08 2010 14:12 sylverfyre wrote:
Then our [insert someone who isnt our carry, or even is..] comes by and instantly flattens the wave. Sure, you get 500 gold now. But now that wave is going to be pushed so far out and can't be farmed anymore. When we aren't in a position to push lanes, why do this?

On December 08 2010 15:07 WaveofShadow wrote:
Possibly because if the wave isn't flattened immediately and all the gold/XP gained quickly the enemy will catch on and attempt to gank?
Or by leaving the enemy minions pushed close to your own tower you make it easier for them to knock it down?

It all depends on what phase of the game you're talking about. Early game I can definitely see not flattening the entire wave.
Late game however it would be a mistake just to sit and farm slowly when baron is up for grabs and there are towers down on one (or both) sides. Especially if you want to make it harder for your towers to be pushed without minions revealing enemy positioning.

EDIT: MY LIFE FOR AIUR!!

Even early game, it's sometimes a good idea to force the wave into their tower if no one is there (e.g. the opponent just backed for the first time)--the tower kills creeps way more efficiently than the enemy minions, so unless you expect the opponent to be back to lane before the tower cleans up your minions (not exactly hard to judge, seeing as you've probably backed-returned to lane hundreds of times in all the games you've played), you deny more XP/gold by forcing the wave into tower than by holding the waves in the center.

On December 08 2010 04:47 Southlight wrote:
I disagree with almost everything said here. I think the #1 way to rise ladder is to play a hero that can farm heroes. You don't need a tank, you don't need support, if you can butcher your lane and cut people down then all you need to do is make sure you play patiently and wait for mistakes by the opponent.

On December 08 2010 12:11 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:

You don't get to 2000 by getting carried. Straight up, if you think you are competing with the top what, 50 players in this game? because they got carried, you are wrong. 1600, yeah, you can get carried to. 1700? Maybe. Anything higher than that is skill, straight up. You might think a player is terrible because they had an off game, or maybe they just failed against you a few times, but 2000 ranked players are the top 0.001% of this game. They didn't get carried there.