EPTSo in a way, 5hit is right. If you want to rise in ranked ladder quickly, learn to be versatile. Know how to play carry DPS, know how to jungle. Those two roles make much more of a difference than support. Otherwise, you're banking your win entirely on your team. A 10-0 Zilean is laughable compared to a 10-0 WW. Don't get me started on a 10-0 Ashe, etc.
[Discussion] Breaking 1600 - Page 6
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
So in a way, 5hit is right. If you want to rise in ranked ladder quickly, learn to be versatile. Know how to play carry DPS, know how to jungle. Those two roles make much more of a difference than support. Otherwise, you're banking your win entirely on your team. A 10-0 Zilean is laughable compared to a 10-0 WW. Don't get me started on a 10-0 Ashe, etc. | ||
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rredtooth
5464 Posts
On December 07 2010 00:21 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: =/Basically if you aren't competent with at least three different classes of champions you're not going to make it at the higher levels anyway though. | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On December 07 2010 07:14 redtooth wrote: =/ There are exceptions. 5hit noob for blanket statements. Yes, toothred, you fall under that category. The class you main is "wall jumpers". Super niche role yo!  | ||
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Odds
Canada1188 Posts
On December 06 2010 23:14 spinesheath wrote: And then you don't get someone to jungle. Or someone tries to and dies to Golem and is completely shut down after that. And bottom lane feeds the Twitch/Trynd 10 kills in 10 minutes. Either you communicate with your allies and help them play well or you rely on getting decent allies. es okay. Sivir es the best , i can kill 6 peopel in 1 shot every time, es so good | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
Health Quints AP Quints CDR Blues MR Blues Dodge Yellows MP5 Yellows Spellpen Reds 1/2 AS Reds Which should I consider next, especially if I'm looking to pick up a jungling champ? | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
Get Flat Armor Yellows next after AS Reds. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On December 07 2010 07:12 NeoIllusions wrote: So in a way, 5hit is right. If you want to rise in ranked ladder quickly, learn to be versatile. Know how to play carry DPS, know how to jungle. Those two roles make much more of a difference than support. Otherwise, you're banking your win entirely on your team. A 10-0 Zilean is laughable compared to a 10-0 WW. Don't get me started on a 10-0 Ashe, etc. I must strongly disagree. Yeah of course a 10-0 Zil isn't going to do much that a 0-0 Zil couldn't do, same with most other supports, but supports can play a HUGE role in a game. Sometimes I carry extremely hard with Janna for example. Obviously not by racking up kills and going AD. If you can get at least some coordination with your allies going and use your spells well, support can completely change games. And the fun part about support is that you can actually correct some mistakes of your allies or dominate the duo lane which leads to a decently farmed ally and two underfarmed enemies. That's why I mostly play Sona/Janna in ranked games, and it works well (70% winratio both). Yeah you can't really win the game by yourself, but honesly, nobody can unless your enemies are really bad. Then again I consider Janna a tank/anti-initiator... | ||
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rredtooth
5464 Posts
On December 07 2010 08:08 spinesheath wrote: you can't deny the truth of what neo is saying though. that doesn't make support players any less valuable. it's just that they are MUCH easier to play and if they were to mess up they wouldn't screw over the team as much as if a solo carry screwed up. the stake associated with playing a carry is higher than a support hero.I must strongly disagree. Yeah of course a 10-0 Zil isn't going to do much that a 0-0 Zil couldn't do, same with most other supports, but supports can play a HUGE role in a game. Sometimes I carry extremely hard with Janna for example. Obviously not by racking up kills and going AD. If you can get at least some coordination with your allies going and use your spells well, support can completely change games. And the fun part about support is that you can actually correct some mistakes of your allies or dominate the duo lane which leads to a decently farmed ally and two underfarmed enemies. That's why I mostly play Sona/Janna in ranked games, and it works well (70% winratio both). Yeah you can't really win the game by yourself, but honesly, nobody can unless your enemies are really bad. Then again I consider Janna a tank/anti-initiator... | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
DPS Carries can kill enemy champions and towers on their own. Junglers can kill enemy champions and dragon. Supports on the other hand, they don't actively help your team towards those 3 goals. By themselves, they can't do it. Their roles is to ensure their teammates don't fall behind. They don't do much to put their team ahead. What good is a Janna Shield or Zilean Ulti on your DPS carry if they still end up dying and not killing any enemies? However, if you're Ashe, you last hit properly and buy the right items, you are still going to rape face, regardless of if you have that Janna Shield on you or not. Janna Shield makes things easier for you but doesn't mean you can't kill anyone without it. My comments aren't meant as a slight towards support champions or players who play supports. I'll be the first one to tell you that a team with Janna has a much bigger team fight advantage against a team that doesn't have Janna. But try to keep perspective. We're talking about what the best way to climb ranking. Nothing else. | ||
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0123456789
United States3216 Posts
I'll add my own piece of advice. If you don't have summoners up, don't put yourself in an aggressive position. This means, if you're playing Twitch, don't engage in a team fight if you don't have your cleanse or flash up or don't be pushed up in your lane with summoners down. Easiest way to die and feed your sprees people, or give your advantage away. Another great way to go up the ladder, supports. Some might argue whether or not it's the best way, but it's a great way. I mean if you're 4th/5th pick, and your team already has soloes and jungle, play Janna, taric, or sona. They're way better and contribute more to the team than playing your limited 3 solo farm champs and jungler. They also have a low skill ladder, and don't cost much so learn them. It increases your percent of going up the ladder by a lot. You can't always play a certain champ, and if you do, you're forcing bad lanes. | ||
STS17
United States1817 Posts
You can't always play a certain champ, and if you do, you're forcing bad lanes. This is probably the best thing said here. If you want to advance in rating you must pick a champ which suits the comp your team is building and this means you can't always be the 13/3/7 carry | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On December 07 2010 07:14 redtooth wrote: =/ I said "competent with" not "amazing with". | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On December 07 2010 12:18 STS17 wrote: This is probably the best thing said here. If you want to advance in rating you must pick a champ which suits the comp your team is building and this means you can't always be the 13/3/7 carry Actually the funny part about this is that Chogath is (and malphite and gragas are) totally viable anywhere on the map lolol. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
Play confident. Play selfish. And adjust to what you actually have. Don't have a tank? Engage 5 seconds after combat has started; someone will initiate, guaranteed, just make sure it's not a tank initiating onto you. Also learn to farm in sidelane, learn to play safe and avoid dying. If you play a good last-hitter you'll still get farmed. Is it slower? Yes. Doesn't mean you can't do it. And you'll need to, because sometimes you won't be able to secure solo. | ||
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cXm0d
United States93 Posts
That may seem completely possible, but the people I'm playing with are either, smart, or the complete opposite. 5/10 games someone says "they banned my champ i'm going to random and feed" and then they do it. Is duo queuing bad, or would that help me out? I have a 1500 friend, would it end up just hurting him? Any advice on just breaking out of the ELO dungeon? | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
Elo dungeon is a myth propogated by people who aren't that good. There are bad players at all levels, and each team tends to have at least one bad player as well. You're just not doing a good job figuring out who, and punishing them. Also they say 1200 isn't even average anymore it's like top 25%. It's a tough pill for people to swallow to acknowledge they just aren't that good. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On December 08 2010 04:47 Southlight wrote: I disagree with almost everything said here. I think the #1 way to rise ladder is to play a hero that can farm heroes. You don't need a tank, you don't need support, if you can butcher your lane and cut people down then all you need to do is make sure you play patiently and wait for mistakes by the opponent. Play confident. Play selfish. And adjust to what you actually have. Don't have a tank? Engage 5 seconds after combat has started; someone will initiate, guaranteed, just make sure it's not a tank initiating onto you. Also learn to farm in sidelane, learn to play safe and avoid dying. If you play a good last-hitter you'll still get farmed. Is it slower? Yes. Doesn't mean you can't do it. And you'll need to, because sometimes you won't be able to secure solo. For me I switched from a hero farmer (Pantheon) to a tower farmer (Kayle) to get out of the starting elo range. *shrugs* I suppose my WW streaks that stabilize my elo after bad streaks tend to involve picking on and ganking bad heroes a lot, but in the 1200-1400 range, pushing was more effective than killing for me. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
On December 08 2010 06:36 Mogwai wrote: For me I switched from a hero farmer (Pantheon) to a tower farmer (Kayle) to get out of the starting elo range. *shrugs* I suppose my WW streaks that stabilize my elo after bad streaks tend to involve picking on and ganking bad heroes a lot, but in the 1200-1400 range, pushing was more effective than killing for me. IIRC that was also when your Pantheon wasn't as dominating (cuz of pre-Loci) so you weren't really carrying. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
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