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[Discussion] Breaking 1600 - Page 9

Forum Index > LoL General
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WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
December 10 2010 20:00 GMT
#161
Chauster made a pretty funny post on solomid.net about ELO hell today.
http://www.solomid.net/blog/2010/12/elo-hell/

It's kinda funny to see the responses of some of the people further down, but I definitely have to disagree with him in some respects....this guy summed it up best I think:

+ Show Spoiler +
Chauster,

Everything you are saying will help people get out of ELO Hell. However, your comments are showing that you have never been there yourself. ELO Hell is a frustration with losing your game because of your teammates being noticably subpar players that they make it nearly impossible to win the game despite how well you (or your sexy Taric partner) is doing.

You mention things like forcing a fight at dragon and forcing combat when they are trying to catchup on farm. What you don’t understand is that in ELO Hell (true ELO Hello is <1000ish rating), there aren't team fights at dragon. At most times in the game you can walk out and solo dragon yourself for 5 minutes. Many teams dont even want dragon and the only time dragon is killed is if they happen to saunter by it or if they have an intelligent WW jungling. In fact, many players do not even place killing towers high on their list of importance. They simply want to kill other players – deathmatch style.

You also mention to force battles when you have the advantage and the enemy is catching up on farm. What you dont understand is that at that ELO, the enemy doesnt care about last hitting or catching up on farm. This game is a death match. You get players that ask what their ult does on Shen. You get players who play Fiddlesticks and literally wait in the bush the entire game waiting for the enemy team to run close to their bush so they can ult. You get players who jump on Tryndamere and think they can 1v5 at level 6. There are players who literally do not care about the team oriented goal of winning the match, and they only care about their individual gaming experience. To them, the game is a solo game and they only care about amassing as many kills as they can.

How do you expect your suggestions to work when you are in champ select and the moment the bans start your last guy in queue says "mid as Jax" and locks in Jax no matter what your team says? How can we play the best champ for our team comp when our team comp looks good at queue and then we find out that our tank is actually building AD Shen? What can we do when we find out later in game that our carry is AP Tristana with a dorans blade to "fool the other team at start"?

Your suggestions are good for 1300-1500 ELO. But the term ELO Hell originated with the lower ELO brackets for a reason. It is hell. It's possible to get out, but not easy and it is almost entirely based on luck (or playing Mordekaiser when hes not banned). ELO Hell is real, and it might defy the logic of many as to how it can possibly be real – after all, how can a good player end up with such poor players? Can he just be that unlucky? He MUST belong with them, right?

The answer is simple. I will use myself as an example. I started playing this game approximately 6 months ago. I mained only Veigar for a long time, and then I mained Zilean after trying some Amumu. I got to level 30 and literally never took the game seriously or cared about winning. To me, a fun game was winning with a pre-arranged team of my friends. Suddenly, I am level 30 and decide I want to try Ezreal out (I see you and others mained him to get to top ELO). I want to be competitive. Well, I happened to start maining one of the hardest champs in the game to play in ranked matches right after he was nerfed. I was bad. Real bad. I was not good at last hitting, didn't have proper item builds for AD carry champs, and was overall just not good at LoL at this point (except I was fair at Zilean and Veigar…both mostly crap champions unfortunately).

So what happened? I started getting into the game. Figuring out the best items to buy, looking intently at champion stats, and trying to figure out how best to win at this game. I started taking it seriously. I watched a couple videos that featured you playing MF in a competitive setting. Suddenly, I got a lot better. I started playing ranged carry champs and carrying almost every match I play. I am a legitimately good player now. Pro level? Probably not yet. I kind of laugh at the "pro level" skill for this game because it's really not a skill based game – after you take it seriously and develop fundamentals through practice, the game is mostly about team synergy. But now I am stuck around 1000 ELO. I got myself up to close to 1300, but a terrible weekend playing way too many matches and losing so many (must've been a Brazilian holiday that weekend), and I was below 1000 again.

So the problem is with players who start out as poor players, but develop into good players. They are trapped in this low ELO Hell and have a very difficult time getting out. The guys who were good to start when Season One opened were able to hop on Ezreal and easily jump out of the starting ELO 1200 bracket.


While I do agree that if you are a good player you won't be stuck in ELO hell, I also can see how it is possible to stay stuck if you get unlucky/can't perfectly carry a team 95% of the time.
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
December 10 2010 21:51 GMT
#162
On December 10 2010 01:14 Brees wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2010 01:01 Scorcher2k wrote:
On December 09 2010 23:29 Brees wrote:
On December 08 2010 12:11 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
On December 08 2010 07:29 Frolossus wrote:
On December 08 2010 07:27 Southlight wrote:
Really? Generally-speaking all the "decent" and "good" players around that elo have the same elo too. So do the bads, but that happens everywhere. As Brees mentioned some time ago, there're some "amazing" 1600s and some "terrible" 2000s. Does that mean the 1600 doesn't deserve his elo?

It means that the 1600 plays better then his elo gives him credit for and the 2000 player got carried too much.

You don't get to 2000 by getting carried. Straight up, if you think you are competing with the top what, 50 players in this game? because they got carried, you are wrong. 1600, yeah, you can get carried to. 1700? Maybe. Anything higher than that is skill, straight up. You might think a player is terrible because they had an off game, or maybe they just failed against you a few times, but 2000 ranked players are the top 0.001% of this game. They didn't get carried there.


disagree, had a 2k player on my team that was only like 60-30 that rushed manamune on sivir (rofl)

his end build was like manamune/zerker greaves/infinity edge. he didnt do anything useful the entire game.


oh and SkiLLY. self explanatory. how he got 2k nobody will ever know.
coincidentally hes already down to 1900, durp.

I don't know what his rating is but I thought I saw tree eskimo do this last night.


its bad, she has no mana problems whatsoever

you either rush BTs and last whisper and get stacks asap or you rush warmog's and get stacks on that. depends on how well your team can protect you really.

no reason to get manamune over bf sword though


I can't think of a single hero except corki I would build a manamune on. I hate that item, it's so damn bad.
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
STS17
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1817 Posts
December 10 2010 22:15 GMT
#163
On December 11 2010 05:00 WaveofShadow wrote:
Chauster made a pretty funny post on solomid.net about ELO hell today.
http://www.solomid.net/blog/2010/12/elo-hell/

It's kinda funny to see the responses of some of the people further down, but I definitely have to disagree with him in some respects....this guy summed it up best I think:

+ Show Spoiler +
Chauster,

Everything you are saying will help people get out of ELO Hell. However, your comments are showing that you have never been there yourself. ELO Hell is a frustration with losing your game because of your teammates being noticably subpar players that they make it nearly impossible to win the game despite how well you (or your sexy Taric partner) is doing.

You mention things like forcing a fight at dragon and forcing combat when they are trying to catchup on farm. What you don’t understand is that in ELO Hell (true ELO Hello is <1000ish rating), there aren't team fights at dragon. At most times in the game you can walk out and solo dragon yourself for 5 minutes. Many teams dont even want dragon and the only time dragon is killed is if they happen to saunter by it or if they have an intelligent WW jungling. In fact, many players do not even place killing towers high on their list of importance. They simply want to kill other players – deathmatch style.

You also mention to force battles when you have the advantage and the enemy is catching up on farm. What you dont understand is that at that ELO, the enemy doesnt care about last hitting or catching up on farm. This game is a death match. You get players that ask what their ult does on Shen. You get players who play Fiddlesticks and literally wait in the bush the entire game waiting for the enemy team to run close to their bush so they can ult. You get players who jump on Tryndamere and think they can 1v5 at level 6. There are players who literally do not care about the team oriented goal of winning the match, and they only care about their individual gaming experience. To them, the game is a solo game and they only care about amassing as many kills as they can.

How do you expect your suggestions to work when you are in champ select and the moment the bans start your last guy in queue says "mid as Jax" and locks in Jax no matter what your team says? How can we play the best champ for our team comp when our team comp looks good at queue and then we find out that our tank is actually building AD Shen? What can we do when we find out later in game that our carry is AP Tristana with a dorans blade to "fool the other team at start"?

Your suggestions are good for 1300-1500 ELO. But the term ELO Hell originated with the lower ELO brackets for a reason. It is hell. It's possible to get out, but not easy and it is almost entirely based on luck (or playing Mordekaiser when hes not banned). ELO Hell is real, and it might defy the logic of many as to how it can possibly be real – after all, how can a good player end up with such poor players? Can he just be that unlucky? He MUST belong with them, right?

The answer is simple. I will use myself as an example. I started playing this game approximately 6 months ago. I mained only Veigar for a long time, and then I mained Zilean after trying some Amumu. I got to level 30 and literally never took the game seriously or cared about winning. To me, a fun game was winning with a pre-arranged team of my friends. Suddenly, I am level 30 and decide I want to try Ezreal out (I see you and others mained him to get to top ELO). I want to be competitive. Well, I happened to start maining one of the hardest champs in the game to play in ranked matches right after he was nerfed. I was bad. Real bad. I was not good at last hitting, didn't have proper item builds for AD carry champs, and was overall just not good at LoL at this point (except I was fair at Zilean and Veigar…both mostly crap champions unfortunately).

So what happened? I started getting into the game. Figuring out the best items to buy, looking intently at champion stats, and trying to figure out how best to win at this game. I started taking it seriously. I watched a couple videos that featured you playing MF in a competitive setting. Suddenly, I got a lot better. I started playing ranged carry champs and carrying almost every match I play. I am a legitimately good player now. Pro level? Probably not yet. I kind of laugh at the "pro level" skill for this game because it's really not a skill based game – after you take it seriously and develop fundamentals through practice, the game is mostly about team synergy. But now I am stuck around 1000 ELO. I got myself up to close to 1300, but a terrible weekend playing way too many matches and losing so many (must've been a Brazilian holiday that weekend), and I was below 1000 again.

So the problem is with players who start out as poor players, but develop into good players. They are trapped in this low ELO Hell and have a very difficult time getting out. The guys who were good to start when Season One opened were able to hop on Ezreal and easily jump out of the starting ELO 1200 bracket.


While I do agree that if you are a good player you won't be stuck in ELO hell, I also can see how it is possible to stay stuck if you get unlucky/can't perfectly carry a team 95% of the time.


Without reading the linked post and just responding to the spoiler:

Don't. Play. Solo. Queue. The guy says it perfectly "the game is less about individual skill and more about team synergy" if you are playing with people like that then its time to find some friends - if you can't find 4 people who you get along with then its also time to check your personality and attitude.
Platinum Level Terran - Take my advice from that perspective
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
December 10 2010 22:29 GMT
#164
I think replays would go a long way toward resolving the Elo Hell discussion.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
rwrzr
Profile Joined February 2010
United States1980 Posts
December 10 2010 22:43 GMT
#165
On December 11 2010 07:29 Seuss wrote:
I think replays would go a long way toward resolving the Elo Hell discussion.


Agreed or some visual aid.

tutorial doesn't cut it
FADC
Flakes
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States3125 Posts
December 10 2010 22:44 GMT
#166
It turns out your last-hitting is always worse than you think it is. If you're like me and watch streams going "pff I can play better than that" just take a game to work solely on mechanics and staying alive, and you'll see how much room you have for improvement (or play a really good game!).

I still have a ways to go.

On a side note, I just started taking adderall for ADD and it's like a cloud was lifted from my brain. Thinking and focusing is just... easier. If you want to be serious about school or videogames and you have ADD, it's a real handicap. And this is coming from the old school culture of "suck it up and focus harder" that is still present in Asia and conservative America.
BlackPaladin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States9316 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-11 02:40:39
December 11 2010 02:40 GMT
#167
On December 11 2010 07:44 Flakes wrote:
It turns out your last-hitting is always worse than you think it is. If you're like me and watch streams going "pff I can play better than that" just take a game to work solely on mechanics and staying alive, and you'll see how much room you have for improvement (or play a really good game!).


This is entirely true. Really, everytime I miss a single last hit I call myself terrible lol. Got to keep practicing on that and knowing HOW to last hit even when the tower is hitting the creeps because the enemy pushed the lane against you. Such as hitting once, letting tower hit twice, then hitting again for the last hit. Controlling your lane to avoid gank opportunities against you while last hitting, harassing, etc is pretty hard to do in some cases and takes a lot of practice.
"Your full potential does not matter if you do not use all 100% of it."
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
December 11 2010 04:11 GMT
#168
On December 11 2010 07:44 Flakes wrote:
It turns out your last-hitting is always worse than you think it is. If you're like me and watch streams going "pff I can play better than that" just take a game to work solely on mechanics and staying alive, and you'll see how much room you have for improvement (or play a really good game!).

I still have a ways to go.

On a side note, I just started taking adderall for ADD and it's like a cloud was lifted from my brain. Thinking and focusing is just... easier. If you want to be serious about school or videogames and you have ADD, it's a real handicap. And this is coming from the old school culture of "suck it up and focus harder" that is still present in Asia and conservative America.

Fuck I want some adderall so bad. How'd you get diagnosed? They thought I had ADHD when I was a kid but I guess my serotonin was just low so I got jipped and they gave me zoloft instead, which was fucking elevator music in my head all the time.

Back on topic--he's right. I thought I was in Elo hell but I really wasn't just carrying hard enough. If you're complaining about the 800 level, you're not carrying. At all. I mean, think about it this way--if you put Ezpz into a game full of 800s and gave him MF or Ashe he'd probably be able to win it 1v5. If you can't do that, you might belong a couple hundred higher, but you still have room to improve.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
December 11 2010 09:54 GMT
#169
[image loading]

BITCHESSSSSSSSSS
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
cXm0d
Profile Joined May 2010
United States93 Posts
December 12 2010 12:28 GMT
#170
Finally broke out of the 1k's, into a number that actually show's up! Thanks to all the tips posted in here, and the power of kassadin and malphite!
BajaBlood
Profile Joined August 2009
United States205 Posts
December 12 2010 20:45 GMT
#171
The best way to break 1600 - duo queue with Loci's smurf :D
yazu
Profile Joined September 2010
United States255 Posts
December 12 2010 22:02 GMT
#172
On December 11 2010 18:54 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
[image loading]

BITCHESSSSSSSSSS


Damn 5hit so good. Someone call 911 cause we got a beast in the house and he wrecking noobs over.
g.cuisine
gtrsrs
Profile Joined June 2010
United States9109 Posts
December 12 2010 22:21 GMT
#173
i like how someone was telling chauster to take a smurf from 800 to 1400 to prove he wasn't just lucky

:wat:

i went from 720 to 1400 in like 2 weeks primarily trolling... getting out of the triple digits isn't hard at all and getting to 1400 hasn't exactly been a challenge either, just a test of patience
i play ... hearthstone =\^.^/= Winterfox
Odds
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada1188 Posts
December 12 2010 22:55 GMT
#174
I'm hoping to break 1600 by the end of tonight, might not make it though
Odds.633, AM. Plat level currently. Would love more practice partners, add me, let's play!
HazMat
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States17077 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-12 23:40:24
December 12 2010 23:40 GMT
#175
I think I might start solo queuing again because I've been playing so bad lately. Don't know how I've become so terrible but hopefully I can get to 1700 and then go back to trolling ~_~
www.youtube.com/user/ShakeDrizzle | League and SSBM content creator | Armada's Youtube Editor
Caller
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Poland8075 Posts
December 13 2010 00:06 GMT
#176
On December 13 2010 08:40 HazMat wrote:
I think I might start solo queuing again because I've been playing so bad lately. Don't know how I've become so terrible but hopefully I can get to 1700 and then go back to trolling ~_~

still haven't recovered from my nidalee vs. your lux i see

especially the part where i gibbed you with max spear first while you were typing
Watch me fail at Paradox: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=397564
HazMat
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States17077 Posts
December 13 2010 00:34 GMT
#177
Why you have to remind me.
Also, fuck solo queue loooool, silly me trying.
www.youtube.com/user/ShakeDrizzle | League and SSBM content creator | Armada's Youtube Editor
Brees
Profile Joined January 2010
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
December 13 2010 00:38 GMT
#178
my new advice is


play corki
Brees on in
yazu
Profile Joined September 2010
United States255 Posts
December 13 2010 01:23 GMT
#179
On December 13 2010 09:38 Brees wrote:
my new advice is


play corki


Its true. He doesn't get banned as often anymore and he can carry a team with three feeders on it...... unfortunately for me he can't carry with four feeders.
g.cuisine
cXm0d
Profile Joined May 2010
United States93 Posts
December 13 2010 01:56 GMT
#180
I say, play kassadin. Atleast 1000-1300 for me
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