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[Discussion] Breaking 1600 - Page 3

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rredtooth
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
5461 Posts
December 02 2010 18:44 GMT
#41
On December 03 2010 03:39 BlackPaladin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2010 03:06 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
How does Teemo counter DPS classes? Blind only lasts a couple seconds and you could get the same thing from any champion with exhaust...Seems more useful to have the latter along with some sort of stun or snare if they're melee.

That Zilean counter-picking idea is pretty cool though. Are there any other counters like that ^_^
He can slow and blind constantly so no DPS can catch him and if they do they can rarely hit him for long. Plus his shrooms give your team map awareness for free. ;o
teemo slows? i guess you're talking mallet which is a terrible item in 90% of situations (including this one). sion stuns for almost as long as teemo blinds. i honestly believe teemo is the single most useless hero in the game.

also, i haven't played in a while but last i checked zilean ult didn't stop mordekaiser ult. maybe they patched it who knows.
[formerly sponsored by the artist formerly known as Gene]
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
December 02 2010 18:46 GMT
#42
Dat shroom

Also teemo is mad good in top lane if it's not vs like Gragas/Malphite/Mordekaiser/Cho/Panth... oh, okay, you're right.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
Brees
Profile Joined January 2010
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
December 02 2010 19:02 GMT
#43
well played teemo is pretty good now, until other team gets oracle. then you are pretty useless
Brees on in
L0CUST.
Profile Joined August 2010
38 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-02 19:05:11
December 02 2010 19:03 GMT
#44
Protheon seems very strong at the moment. Finding a champion that not many people play and getting good at him/her is a good idea. That's what I did with Udyr, and am currently working on with a few others. I planned on doing that with solo-top Malphite.. but after a few days of stomping, people caught on. Sivir and Tristana are good choices for now as are Shaco and Zilean.. Kennen and Anivia too.. lots to choose from :D Goodluck.
rredtooth
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
5461 Posts
December 02 2010 19:09 GMT
#45
On December 03 2010 04:03 L0CUST. wrote:
Protheon seems very strong at the moment. Finding a champion that not many people play and getting good at him/her is a good idea. That's what I did with Udyr, and am currently working on with a few others. I planned on doing that with solo-top Malphite.. but after a few days of stomping, people caught on. Sivir and Tristana are good choices for now as are Shaco and Zilean.. Kennen and Anivia too.. lots to choose from :D Goodluck.
katarina nidalee
[formerly sponsored by the artist formerly known as Gene]
Darkchylde
Profile Joined January 2010
United States473 Posts
December 02 2010 19:11 GMT
#46
On December 03 2010 03:06 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
How does Teemo counter DPS classes? Blind only lasts a couple seconds and you could get the same thing from any champion with exhaust...Seems more useful to have the latter along with some sort of stun or snare if they're melee.

That Zilean counter-picking idea is pretty cool though. Are there any other counters like that ^_^


Well, the ones I mentioned rely mostly on their auto's to do DPS and yes exhaust does the same thing, blind as a skill is what makes Teemo unique and really good. Plus it's on a relatively low-CD so you can use 2-3 times a fight.
Odds
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada1188 Posts
December 02 2010 19:51 GMT
#47
On December 03 2010 04:03 L0CUST. wrote:
Protheon seems very strong at the moment. Finding a champion that not many people play and getting good at him/her is a good idea. That's what I did with Udyr, and am currently working on with a few others. I planned on doing that with solo-top Malphite.. but after a few days of stomping, people caught on. Sivir and Tristana are good choices for now as are Shaco and Zilean.. Kennen and Anivia too.. lots to choose from :D Goodluck.

This is the part where I attempt to bait a post from you in the Shaco thread.
Odds.633, AM. Plat level currently. Would love more practice partners, add me, let's play!
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
December 03 2010 04:54 GMT
#48
On December 03 2010 04:03 L0CUST. wrote:
Protheon seems very strong at the moment. Finding a champion that not many people play and getting good at him/her is a good idea. That's what I did with Udyr, and am currently working on with a few others. I planned on doing that with solo-top Malphite.. but after a few days of stomping, people caught on. Sivir and Tristana are good choices for now as are Shaco and Zilean.. Kennen and Anivia too.. lots to choose from :D Goodluck.


Pantheon will be the new flavor of the month in a week tops.

I truly love the Zilean counter pick to morde though. It's just so funny seeing that person revive and then they have a 5v4 because Morde is completely useless. Since Morde appears to dominate a lot of my low ELO games I might just play Zilean exclusively, especially when you have people trying out Irelia and stuff.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
December 03 2010 06:25 GMT
#49
Can't be flavor of the month if he's banned in every game...
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
yazu
Profile Joined September 2010
United States255 Posts
December 03 2010 07:59 GMT
#50
On December 03 2010 15:25 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Can't be flavor of the month if he's banned in every game...


Yep he gets banned in every game so far. He will probably get nerfed... the only problem is Riot won't revert back the q nerf so if they do nerf him he is going to the shit bucket? But who really knows.
g.cuisine
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-03 10:17:24
December 03 2010 10:16 GMT
#51
[image loading]

So, this is the difference between 1600s and 1200s when it's 4v5. Basically, you should be able to do this when you queue with a bunch of noobs.

[edit] The "no class" thing was something they said after I jumped their inhibitor when they went to baron before we aced for the win. [/edit]
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
L0CUST.
Profile Joined August 2010
38 Posts
December 03 2010 15:58 GMT
#52
On December 03 2010 04:51 Odds wrote:

This is the part where I attempt to bait a post from you in the Shaco thread.


I think Shaco is the best champion to teach a player offensive jungling, not because he is so good at it.. mainly because of his nerfs. Deceive is a long enough cooldown that you really only get to use it once, if the enemy is on you.. so you have to learn all the different paths enemies could take to get to you, and learn to guess where the enemy will move next. Also, learning to jungle offensively is a very defining skill for a jungler.. it means you not only know your jungle paths, you also know enemy jungle paths and can figure out where the enemy will want to go next

This may change when flash is taken out and ganking is viable.. but for now the best way to control the game is to shutdown the enemy jungler by stealing their buffs/creeps as much as possible, and ignore all the cries for ganks in lanes... unless you see a count gank opportunity! :D which can really turn the game in your team's favor. Lastly. Bottom lane should ward dragon early on, so the jungler is free to roam the map without worrying if dragon is being cheesed.
Scorcher2k
Profile Joined November 2009
United States802 Posts
December 03 2010 16:15 GMT
#53
On December 03 2010 19:16 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
[image loading]

So, this is the difference between 1600s and 1200s when it's 4v5. Basically, you should be able to do this when you queue with a bunch of noobs.

[edit] The "no class" thing was something they said after I jumped their inhibitor when they went to baron before we aced for the win. [/edit]

What is with their Ashe's build? Did they really buy in that order?
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
December 03 2010 16:33 GMT
#54
I mean, they were probably ranked like 1300. I see people in 1600 doing stuff like that. Maybe she was going for the manamune/warmogs/atmas trifecta lol.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
December 03 2010 16:36 GMT
#55
On December 04 2010 00:58 L0CUST. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2010 04:51 Odds wrote:

This is the part where I attempt to bait a post from you in the Shaco thread.


I think Shaco is the best champion to teach a player offensive jungling, not because he is so good at it.. mainly because of his nerfs. Deceive is a long enough cooldown that you really only get to use it once, if the enemy is on you.. so you have to learn all the different paths enemies could take to get to you, and learn to guess where the enemy will move next. Also, learning to jungle offensively is a very defining skill for a jungler.. it means you not only know your jungle paths, you also know enemy jungle paths and can figure out where the enemy will want to go next

This may change when flash is taken out and ganking is viable.. but for now the best way to control the game is to shutdown the enemy jungler by stealing their buffs/creeps as much as possible, and ignore all the cries for ganks in lanes... unless you see a count gank opportunity! :D which can really turn the game in your team's favor. Lastly. Bottom lane should ward dragon early on, so the jungler is free to roam the map without worrying if dragon is being cheesed.

lately ive had MAD success getting away with shaco, just seems like everytime I know how to dodge them or how to make it look like I went that way

fx an irelia chased me away from 2. mid lane tower, i ran back at the lane and decived back on the lane and walked to the wraith bush, put a jitb and irelia procced the jitb just before i was recalled

Shaco is suuuuper fun, since he can be a threat to carries without that much damage, and still having mad map control
In the woods, there lurks..
Odds
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada1188 Posts
December 03 2010 22:46 GMT
#56
On December 04 2010 00:58 L0CUST. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2010 04:51 Odds wrote:

This is the part where I attempt to bait a post from you in the Shaco thread.


I think Shaco is the best champion to teach a player offensive jungling, not because he is so good at it.. mainly because of his nerfs. Deceive is a long enough cooldown that you really only get to use it once, if the enemy is on you.. so you have to learn all the different paths enemies could take to get to you, and learn to guess where the enemy will move next. Also, learning to jungle offensively is a very defining skill for a jungler.. it means you not only know your jungle paths, you also know enemy jungle paths and can figure out where the enemy will want to go next

This may change when flash is taken out and ganking is viable.. but for now the best way to control the game is to shutdown the enemy jungler by stealing their buffs/creeps as much as possible, and ignore all the cries for ganks in lanes... unless you see a count gank opportunity! :D which can really turn the game in your team's favor. Lastly. Bottom lane should ward dragon early on, so the jungler is free to roam the map without worrying if dragon is being cheesed.

Thanks a lot, I will practice more.

On December 03 2010 03:44 redtooth wrote: i honestly believe teemo is the single most useless hero in the game.

I'm going to tentatively disagree, despite having no doubt a good deal less experience. I think Teemo's got a bunch of things working in his favor.

-Blinding Shot is (from what i've seen) basically on par with Pantheon's pre-patch Q, but it scales better.
-He's one of the hardest heroes in the game (barring Shaco, Sivir, and Kass) to chase, allowing him to get away with some risky plays.
-He can function effectively as either physical or magical DPS, or a hybrid pretty effectively in a way that many champions cannot or a combination of both. Lets him adapt to the enemy team's MR/Armor situation

That's all obvious. I think probably one of his most underestimated aspects is his ability to control the map, and in particular, the Dragon. When I lane mid as Teemo, I typically put the vast majority of my mushrooms in the southeast portion of the lane, as well as in the bushes and in the area between mid lane and dragon-- as this area appears to be the primary highway for both teams as they attempt to control dragon, and the area where fights over it take place. When your team forces a fight at Dragon (or later, Baron), the mushrooms have 4 functions:
- an extremely effective early warning system,
- a form of rather obnoxious attrition, making the enemies much less likely to engage (because they're low) and also obviously less likely to win a fight, should one occur
-the slow attached to the mushrooms allows your team a few extra precious seconds to finish killing the dragon, and can also put the enemy team out of position if someone engages too early while his teammates are slowed.
-If you win the fight, the enemies typically have a much harder time getting away.


Just some thoughts.
Odds.633, AM. Plat level currently. Would love more practice partners, add me, let's play!
Frolossus
Profile Joined February 2010
United States4779 Posts
December 03 2010 23:18 GMT
#57
On December 04 2010 07:46 Odds wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2010 00:58 L0CUST. wrote:
On December 03 2010 04:51 Odds wrote:

This is the part where I attempt to bait a post from you in the Shaco thread.


I think Shaco is the best champion to teach a player offensive jungling, not because he is so good at it.. mainly because of his nerfs. Deceive is a long enough cooldown that you really only get to use it once, if the enemy is on you.. so you have to learn all the different paths enemies could take to get to you, and learn to guess where the enemy will move next. Also, learning to jungle offensively is a very defining skill for a jungler.. it means you not only know your jungle paths, you also know enemy jungle paths and can figure out where the enemy will want to go next

This may change when flash is taken out and ganking is viable.. but for now the best way to control the game is to shutdown the enemy jungler by stealing their buffs/creeps as much as possible, and ignore all the cries for ganks in lanes... unless you see a count gank opportunity! :D which can really turn the game in your team's favor. Lastly. Bottom lane should ward dragon early on, so the jungler is free to roam the map without worrying if dragon is being cheesed.

Thanks a lot, I will practice more.

Show nested quote +
On December 03 2010 03:44 redtooth wrote: i honestly believe teemo is the single most useless hero in the game.

I'm going to tentatively disagree, despite having no doubt a good deal less experience. I think Teemo's got a bunch of things working in his favor.

-Blinding Shot is (from what i've seen) basically on par with Pantheon's pre-patch Q, but it scales better.
-He's one of the hardest heroes in the game (barring Shaco, Sivir, and Kass) to chase, allowing him to get away with some risky plays.
-He can function effectively as either physical or magical DPS, or a hybrid pretty effectively in a way that many champions cannot or a combination of both. Lets him adapt to the enemy team's MR/Armor situation

That's all obvious. I think probably one of his most underestimated aspects is his ability to control the map, and in particular, the Dragon. When I lane mid as Teemo, I typically put the vast majority of my mushrooms in the southeast portion of the lane, as well as in the bushes and in the area between mid lane and dragon-- as this area appears to be the primary highway for both teams as they attempt to control dragon, and the area where fights over it take place. When your team forces a fight at Dragon (or later, Baron), the mushrooms have 4 functions:
- an extremely effective early warning system,
- a form of rather obnoxious attrition, making the enemies much less likely to engage (because they're low) and also obviously less likely to win a fight, should one occur
-the slow attached to the mushrooms allows your team a few extra precious seconds to finish killing the dragon, and can also put the enemy team out of position if someone engages too early while his teammates are slowed.
-If you win the fight, the enemies typically have a much harder time getting away.


Just some thoughts.

you forgot anivia for hardest champions, teemo is still a very situational champion to pick and he has virtually no skill synergy
Odds
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada1188 Posts
December 03 2010 23:57 GMT
#58
Extraordinary movement speed + 3 kiting abilities = no skill synergy now?
Odds.633, AM. Plat level currently. Would love more practice partners, add me, let's play!
rredtooth
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
5461 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-04 11:46:01
December 04 2010 11:45 GMT
#59
On December 04 2010 07:46 Odds wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2010 03:44 redtooth wrote: i honestly believe teemo is the single most useless hero in the game.
I'm going to tentatively disagree, despite having no doubt a good deal less experience. I think Teemo's got a bunch of things working in his favor.

-Blinding Shot is (from what i've seen) basically on par with Pantheon's pre-patch Q, but it scales better.
-He's one of the hardest heroes in the game (barring Shaco, Sivir, and Kass) to chase, allowing him to get away with some risky plays.
-He can function effectively as either physical or magical DPS, or a hybrid pretty effectively in a way that many champions cannot or a combination of both. Lets him adapt to the enemy team's MR/Armor situation

That's all obvious. I think probably one of his most underestimated aspects is his ability to control the map, and in particular, the Dragon. When I lane mid as Teemo, I typically put the vast majority of my mushrooms in the southeast portion of the lane, as well as in the bushes and in the area between mid lane and dragon-- as this area appears to be the primary highway for both teams as they attempt to control dragon, and the area where fights over it take place. When your team forces a fight at Dragon (or later, Baron), the mushrooms have 4 functions:
- an extremely effective early warning system,
- a form of rather obnoxious attrition, making the enemies much less likely to engage (because they're low) and also obviously less likely to win a fight, should one occur
-the slow attached to the mushrooms allows your team a few extra precious seconds to finish killing the dragon, and can also put the enemy team out of position if someone engages too early while his teammates are slowed.
-If you win the fight, the enemies typically have a much harder time getting away.
=/ i respect your disagreement but stand by my point.

- blinding shot may have good numbers but doesn't scale. so unless you're going AP teemo you are stuck at base skill damage. it's just as good (if that) as any damaging stun.
- well if he doesn't get hit that is. but rarely are you going to preempt a chase and if you do usually you would have gotten away whether you had the MS or not. in most laning situations (from my experience) the speed boost is just a mana sink as it just gets auto canceled. it's useless in ganking situations since most ganks are started with an attack.
- sorry but this one is pure wrong. teemo's options branch in such a way that it's not viable to choose one ingame. you gotta prepare for it with runes and you can't build hybrid in the way of items. a teemo with a BT and rylais is a useless (yet somehow farmed) teemo.
- also you're giving shroom WAY too much credit. the time spent running around planting shrooms is time being wasted pushing lanes or farming. ideally they will warn and stop fleeing enemies and give precious seconds to get dragon but that's being blindly optimistic. a lot of other skills serve the same role and so much more.

some cons to teemo to point out:
- he sucks in laning (q harass is overrated) and dies in solos.
- he is super super super squishy.
- he has little utility in teamfights outside of occasionally disabling their auto-attacking carry. even then stuns are better.
- his ult is useless in winning teamfights (MAYBE do better in cleanup but that doesn't matter when they rout you).

i've been wrong before on a lot of heroes but until an amazing teemo comes along i won't be convinced. so for now his only role in this game is to troll your team when you want a guaranteed loss.
[formerly sponsored by the artist formerly known as Gene]
barbsq
Profile Joined November 2009
United States5348 Posts
December 04 2010 14:14 GMT
#60
On December 04 2010 20:45 redtooth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2010 07:46 Odds wrote:
On December 03 2010 03:44 redtooth wrote: i honestly believe teemo is the single most useless hero in the game.
I'm going to tentatively disagree, despite having no doubt a good deal less experience. I think Teemo's got a bunch of things working in his favor.

-Blinding Shot is (from what i've seen) basically on par with Pantheon's pre-patch Q, but it scales better.
-He's one of the hardest heroes in the game (barring Shaco, Sivir, and Kass) to chase, allowing him to get away with some risky plays.
-He can function effectively as either physical or magical DPS, or a hybrid pretty effectively in a way that many champions cannot or a combination of both. Lets him adapt to the enemy team's MR/Armor situation

That's all obvious. I think probably one of his most underestimated aspects is his ability to control the map, and in particular, the Dragon. When I lane mid as Teemo, I typically put the vast majority of my mushrooms in the southeast portion of the lane, as well as in the bushes and in the area between mid lane and dragon-- as this area appears to be the primary highway for both teams as they attempt to control dragon, and the area where fights over it take place. When your team forces a fight at Dragon (or later, Baron), the mushrooms have 4 functions:
- an extremely effective early warning system,
- a form of rather obnoxious attrition, making the enemies much less likely to engage (because they're low) and also obviously less likely to win a fight, should one occur
-the slow attached to the mushrooms allows your team a few extra precious seconds to finish killing the dragon, and can also put the enemy team out of position if someone engages too early while his teammates are slowed.
-If you win the fight, the enemies typically have a much harder time getting away.
=/ i respect your disagreement but stand by my point.

- blinding shot may have good numbers but doesn't scale. so unless you're going AP teemo you are stuck at base skill damage. it's just as good (if that) as any damaging stun.
- well if he doesn't get hit that is. but rarely are you going to preempt a chase and if you do usually you would have gotten away whether you had the MS or not. in most laning situations (from my experience) the speed boost is just a mana sink as it just gets auto canceled. it's useless in ganking situations since most ganks are started with an attack.
- sorry but this one is pure wrong. teemo's options branch in such a way that it's not viable to choose one ingame. you gotta prepare for it with runes and you can't build hybrid in the way of items. a teemo with a BT and rylais is a useless (yet somehow farmed) teemo.
- also you're giving shroom WAY too much credit. the time spent running around planting shrooms is time being wasted pushing lanes or farming. ideally they will warn and stop fleeing enemies and give precious seconds to get dragon but that's being blindly optimistic. a lot of other skills serve the same role and so much more.

some cons to teemo to point out:
- he sucks in laning (q harass is overrated) and dies in solos.
- he is super super super squishy.
- he has little utility in teamfights outside of occasionally disabling their auto-attacking carry. even then stuns are better.
- his ult is useless in winning teamfights (MAYBE do better in cleanup but that doesn't matter when they rout you).

i've been wrong before on a lot of heroes but until an amazing teemo comes along i won't be convinced. so for now his only role in this game is to troll your team when you want a guaranteed loss.


i dont have anything to say about the point's you've made (i'm not a teemo player, nor am i in the upper echelons of play) but i do kno the rain man seems to do quite well with teemo
Look at this guy, constantly diluting himself! (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ ( ╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
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