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[Discussion] Patch Notes - Page 58

Forum Index > LoL General
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Juicyfruit
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada5484 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-15 19:29:27
March 15 2011 19:28 GMT
#1141
It better not be an item that makes ranged DPS gods of everything -_-
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
March 15 2011 19:31 GMT
#1142
I'm really sick and tired of all this tanky champ bitching.

Can someone who was around when it all started explain to me the impetus that began this whole "tanky DPS is imba" fad?
Moderator
phyvo
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5635 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-15 19:59:24
March 15 2011 19:57 GMT
#1143
I'm pretty sure the imba tanky DPS fad is mostly the fault of Riot. It first really began when Riot decided that Randuin's/FH etc had too much CDR and removed Locket. Before then people on the official forums hardly thought about tanky DPS as specifically imba even though they were building Locket on Gragas/Udyr/etc all the time.

Sure, everyone knew that Xin was OP when he came out but that was one specific case.

Maybe some high Eloers tipped Riot off or something but they don't complain on the official forums so I wouldn't know.
"BE A MANGO TO SLEEP LIKE A SNORING TIGER" - Monte
Phrost
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States4008 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-15 20:10:14
March 15 2011 20:09 GMT
#1144
Basically in a perfect world:

tanky dps > tanks > mages > ranged dps > tanky dps

but in order for melee characters to be effective they need to have a few things from this list:

resistance to harassment
a way to quickly close gaps
a way to avoid or reduce crowd control
high mobilty
enough survival to make up the damage missed by engaging
a way to outdamage an opponent (through healing or dps steroids)
a way to keep damage output high (crowd control, slows, etc)

Now some more balanced melee characters have some of these, for example akali:
quick way to close gaps, increased survival, decent healing with twin disciplines, and reduced harassment with well timed smoke bombs but poor survival and no CC reduction so she is fairly easy to stun and focus down.

Irelia has all of these, Sion has most of these (no quick way to close gaps), Malphite has all of these, Cho has everything except a gap closer, Xin has all of these, etc.

In order to not have to redo an entire kit most of spells and champions have to be retweaked for their utility. Right now Tanky dps > almost everything because they are so difficult to stop.
iamphrost.tumblr.com // http://howtobebettermagicplayer.tumblr.com // twitter @phrost_
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-15 20:14:15
March 15 2011 20:13 GMT
#1145
How come we are seeing plenty of comps based around strong Mage/Ranged DPS with support and 2 tanks? (In high level games, stuff like mummy/cho/nunu etc), and almost no more than 1 tanky dps in comps? (usually olaf or irelia)
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-15 20:17:39
March 15 2011 20:14 GMT
#1146
On March 16 2011 04:57 phyvo wrote:
Maybe some high Eloers tipped Riot off or something but they don't complain on the official forums so I wouldn't know.

If that's the case, I don't currently see it being reflected in bans/picks on streams/in tournaments.

Though I do remember Quality Player making a thread about it a few days ago--which surprised me because I didn't think that "tanky DPS imba" complaints would extend to that high an Elo.
Moderator
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
March 15 2011 20:19 GMT
#1147
There is this champ who can easily 1v1 your ranged DPS even though he has quite a gold disadvantage. He also is among the tankiest champs on the enemy team thus discouraging your team from focusing him. The result: ranged DPS has to run and dies anyways because of higher base speed, dash, Triforce or Ghostblade.
This looks really unfair from the ranged DPS's point of view. Even if you build some defenses, as soon as the "tanky DPS" gets out of stunlock for 2 seconds, you're dead.

That's my guess why this "tanky DPS" hate came up. Since I have no idea what Riot actually means by "tanky DPS", I cannot be sure at all. Not even saying the stuff above is a problem.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
dismiss
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United Kingdom3341 Posts
March 15 2011 20:31 GMT
#1148
I agree with Phrost that melee DPS, at least from riots prospective, need an inherently stronger skillset than ranged DPS to make them viable in the slightest. But of course riot has gone overboard with this and made some of them so strong that they can be as sturdy as tanks and deal pretty much the same damage as ranged characters while still having the better kit.
Failure to improve posting standards will result in a lengthy ban. I <crms_> !dumb <GeoffAnderson> crmsdota <crms_> damnit
kxr1der
Profile Joined March 2009
United States213 Posts
March 15 2011 20:58 GMT
#1149
nocturnes early game damage output is pretty crazy and he is probably the most fun champ ive played. im still not sure what to build on him late game though. should i build tank like say irelia or more as/ad like tryn?
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
March 15 2011 20:59 GMT
#1150
I plan on building Nocturne exactly like Jarman

wriggles -> Ghostblade -> GA + BV in jungle
Ghostblade -> GA + BV -> BC in Lane
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Woony
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Germany6657 Posts
March 15 2011 21:04 GMT
#1151
Is he 'tanky' at all or more like a Yi?
kxr1der
Profile Joined March 2009
United States213 Posts
March 15 2011 21:07 GMT
#1152
i find him to be very squishy and you also have to be careful when you ult, not to do it too far away from your team or you will go down fast.
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-15 21:09:25
March 15 2011 21:07 GMT
#1153
Who cares if some ranged DPS are losing 1v1s? High end games are still dominated by ranged DPS which is a hint that having a team protecting your ranged DPS is generally always going to be extremely strong. The strongest 1v1 builds are some balance of tank and DPS anyway. Enough tank that you can't get bursted and enough DPS that you can either kill your target fast enough if he's high DPS or lifesteal enough to survive if he's a tank.

Tanky DPS just means champs that build at least partially tank and do a lot of damage.
Examples: Cho'gath, malphite. Rammus/amumu/shen can do some damage but not really close to chogath or malphite. Renektron/Irelia probably fall into this category, but I'm not too sure about Xin zhao or like Jax.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
March 15 2011 21:12 GMT
#1154
Does Wriggles->Triforce seem like it would work on Nocturne?
Moderator
kxr1der
Profile Joined March 2009
United States213 Posts
March 15 2011 21:19 GMT
#1155
On March 16 2011 06:12 TheYango wrote:
Does Wriggles->Triforce seem like it would work on Nocturne?


i was thinking of trying this when i got out of class, i havent been jungling with him because im bad at it but the triforce could be good on him, the only problem is he has slightly long cooldowns. Last game I built brutilizer - merc- IE and the IE was kind of underwhelming, i died really fast. Im really think BT might be really good on him.

he is such an amazing ganker though so i really should jungle, if you ult in and pop w immediatly you will almost always get the AS buff and a kill. currently i just start roaming at 6 and its worked pretty good.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
March 15 2011 21:21 GMT
#1156
On March 16 2011 06:19 kxr1der wrote:
i was thinking of trying this when i got out of class, i havent been jungling with him because im bad at it but the triforce could be good on him, the only problem is he has slightly long cooldowns. Last game I built brutilizer - merc- IE and the IE was kind of underwhelming, i died really fast. Im really think BT might be really good on him.

he is such an amazing ganker though so i really should jungle, if you ult in and pop w immediatly you will almost always get the AS buff and a kill. currently i just start roaming at 6 and its worked pretty good.

BF items are iffy on junglers cuz unless you're farming/ganking super well, you won't be able to back with 1850 in your pocket at once.
Moderator
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
March 15 2011 21:23 GMT
#1157
On March 16 2011 06:12 TheYango wrote:
Does Wriggles->Triforce seem like it would work on Nocturne?

name a character that builds Wriggles where Wriggles -> Triforce doesn't "work".

I mean, it might not always be optimal, but it's always pretty effective in my experience.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
LoCicero
Profile Joined August 2010
1100 Posts
March 15 2011 21:26 GMT
#1158
I don't know if Riot understands how strong Leblanc is. I personally think she is the strongest burst caster in the game hands down. We'll see how long it takes them to realize this.
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-15 21:28:00
March 15 2011 21:27 GMT
#1159
On March 16 2011 06:23 Mogwai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2011 06:12 TheYango wrote:
Does Wriggles->Triforce seem like it would work on Nocturne?

name a character that builds Wriggles where Wriggles -> Triforce doesn't "work".

I mean, it might not always be optimal, but it's always pretty effective in my experience.


Wiggle's Triforce is great because of the wide slew of stats it provides. HP, MP, AP, MS, life steal, and a bunch of procs for two item slots. It's just so versatile and cost effective pieces (compared to a BF or NLR which is expensive but just one stat). It be the new IE/LW, sup?
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
March 15 2011 21:27 GMT
#1160
On March 16 2011 06:26 LoCicero wrote:
I don't know if Riot understands how strong Leblanc is. I personally think she is the strongest burst caster in the game hands down. We'll see how long it takes them to realize this.

2 weeks ago I would've called bullshit on this, but running into Maknoob's smurf a few times has shown me the light. That bitch is fucking crazy, nerf plz.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
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