General Discussion/Off-topic - Page 868

On June 16 2011 09:45 Odds wrote:

I don't get it. Why would this post deserve a ban? It's in the thread where stuff like this is explicitly allowed.

On June 16 2011 09:53 Two_DoWn wrote:
But if you want to compare, urgot and cass fulfill a very similar role. One is a physical caster, one is magic. Yet, for the sort of kit that cass has (ie, target 1 person, kill them over a period of time, move on to the next) the restriction she has is MUCH worse than urgots. Urgot can hit as many q's as he likes, no matter what. He dominates early, and even late game he is capable of doing tremendous damage to squshies from range. He has one of the best tower pokes in the game.

Cass has less range, more restrictions, worse early game in exchange for what? An aoe ulti that can really only be used to stun someone who is diving on you? There is a reason that urgot is a decent pick and cass just isnt: the actual reward you get when playing her well is just not all that good. I would argue her teamfight presence is actually WORSE than urgots, because you cannot initiate with your ultimate, you have no go to move if you are zoned away from any squishies (urgot can still throw q's and auttoatacks at people), and your only real option is to throw down a slow and e the tanks as they run at your carry.

In a chase she is amazing. But that happens MAYBE once a game, and even then, ryze and urgot can do the job just as well. Cass brings nothing to the table. IMO she needs to have her sources of damage normalized. I'm all for keeping the poison interaction, but the way it is currently, working off the cd, doenst really work. It is TOO much of a restriction. Make it so you do bonus damage if the opponent is poisoned. Have it slow like urgots w. Make it so that it renews poison or adds a poison stack for each consecutive e hit. But when you have to keep a character deliberately up and restricted because "she'd be unbelievably op" you have a problem with design.

On June 16 2011 11:03 Two_DoWn wrote:
In non me complaining about cass news, yorick looks like a baws

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_U6JEkQ09k&feature=player_embedded

On June 16 2011 11:03 WaveofShadow wrote:
Ok, what if you compare her to a ranged AD, like Miss fortune?
Her speed after hitting a Q can be likened to MF's passive, Cass's range with E can be compared to MF's autoattack (except E does more damage and has longer range) and each of them can still be zoned out of a fight completely.
Cass has better cc however, arguably better overall AoE and single target damage, and thought her kiting takes more skill, she can kite better than MF, especially with Rylai's as compared to an MF with red.
Yet I bet you would argue that MF is more viable in a competitive setting than Cass, wouldn't you? (I will admit though MF is one of the more lackluster AD ranged in the recent meta, however)

It all comes down to positioning, the new ranged AD carries could be argued to be overpowered (Cait/Vayne) because they don't have to worry nearly as much about positioning in a teamfight, especially Cait who can stand WAY back and auto to her heart's content, while Vayne can reposition at will and stealth if in trouble. Yet before these two came out, MF was hella strong in a tourney setting and you still had to position her properly to do well.

I think if you want to argue that Cass is bad because of her zoning issues it's probably more accurate to argue Urgot is OP because he barely has to worry about being zoned at all.

On June 16 2011 09:51 Odds wrote:
It wasn't an insult to anyone in particular, just an expression of playful displeasure at the various BS that was going on. Not remotely deserving of a ban, or even a formal warning really.

On June 16 2011 11:09 Two_DoWn wrote:
My point isnt about speed or positioning or kiting. Sure it matters, but cass' main problem is that her e-q interaction FORCES a delay on her ability to do damage. That means that where urgot can just auto, or MF can auto, cass HAS to hit a q, then start to e. I dont care how fast you can click q-e, there is a much larger delay for that then there is for a simple right click.

My point isnt about speed or positioning or kiting. Sure it matters, but cass' main problem is that her e-q interaction FORCES a delay on her ability to do damage. That means that where urgot can just auto, or MF can auto, cass HAS to hit a q, then start to e. I dont care how fast you can click q-e, there is a much larger delay for that then there is for a simple right click.

On June 16 2011 11:19 WaveofShadow wrote:

Here's where I think you miss the mark. Urgot CAN'T just auto. His range is horrendous. If you mean he can Q, sure he can, if you want to hit minions or tanks. If you mean E>Q, then yeah, but then that ability ALSO hinges on an interaction that becomes necessary for Urgot to poke/deal damage effectively. (read: to maximum potential)

You're also ignoring the fact that Cass's W deals damage and adds poison as well, and is arguably easier to apply. This adds multiple ways of stacking poison for you to land E. And the only potential delay is the E itself IF you E at the wrong time. She will always be doing damage whether with W (weak) or Q (strong in its own right. 0.9 AP ratio). There is no forced delay on her damage, just a potential forced delay on her INSANE burst damage. (read: maximum potential) Compare any other caster and see what kind of delays they have on their burst.

I guess in the end we're disagreeing on the poison mechanic altogether. You don't like it, while I find it interesting and rewarding. I am enjoying the debate though, for what it's worth.

On June 16 2011 11:45 BlackPaladin wrote:
Are you sure you have the correct wireless card? >.>

On June 16 2011 11:17 Shiragaku wrote:
I am surprised there is little complaining about the attacks on PvP.net