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Trinity force on trynd seems like a horrendous idea.
Well, lets explain why. The entire concept of critting off a higher stacked damage to deal higher damage is a good one. That's kinda why GP is decent. The problem, however, is that unlike GP, your effectiveness is always going to be mediated by CC and exausts, and again unlike GP, you don't have the luxury of solo farming a lane for 824.42 years.
Because you're forced to take part in drag/tower fights, and because you might get a shitty lane, you can generally say that a 21-24 minute IE is about 'on par' for what you'd be hoping to get. Lets be charitable and say that you pull in 5 kills at this point for a cool 1500$, and then assume that you farm like a shroomed teemo. the other 2500 is going to come to you in approx 100 cs. Teemo can throw down a reliable 100cs/10 min, so lets be nice and toss you 10 min. Lets be double nice and say you get double drag during that time. Mang. that's almost 20% off the remaining value, so lets say you only take 8 minutes. So, we're now looking at a 29-33 min trynd with IE and triforce under wildly amazing conditions.
Slight problem? You're still going to get CC'd and raped because you have no mres and nothing to prevent CCs. No QSS, no banshee. On the plus side, you'll have mercs and that's about it. The ranged carries that you're going to need to be facehugging are probably corki or ashe, both of which have either a wall full of delicious kiting for you, or a leap and huge magic deeps.
I dunno, I just really dont' see Trynd as scary till he picks up an item that allows him to get around the stupidly easy methods of mitigating his damage, and given how massive triforce is, you're going to be going a VERY long time before you get it.
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On March 20 2011 08:29 L wrote:
Trinity force on trynd seems like a horrendous idea.
Until you try it, yes. Pls no theorycraft.
EDIT: But pls say why
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On March 20 2011 08:29 L wrote:
Trinity force on trynd seems like a horrendous idea.
Triforce is OP, I wouldn't ever doubt it's good on Trynd.
The key here is that you frontload your damage, so you can kill squishies before they get away. Typically you spin, get a couple of hits off, but the last few hits are denied by slows/CC. If you are only going to be hitting tanky champs, it'll lose a lot of strength though.
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On March 20 2011 08:13 ArC_man wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2011 07:41 -Kato- wrote:
Can any USAer post Rainman's Teemo runes and masteries? Aspd marks/ health per level seals/ flat mr glyphs/ flat health quints 9/21/0 going for exhaust/mpen in offense and getting the aspd bonus in defense (no dodge).
Thanks. How does he not have mana problems?
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On March 20 2011 08:36 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2011 08:29 L wrote:
Trinity force on trynd seems like a horrendous idea. Triforce is OP, I wouldn't ever doubt it's good on Trynd. The key here is that you frontload your damage, so you can kill squishies before they get away. Typically you spin, get a couple of hits off, but the last few hits are denied by slows/CC. If you are only going to be hitting tanky champs, it'll lose a lot of strength though.
Yah you got that right, you can do the spin -> hit -> W -> hit type of burst and along with the slow it's a guaranteed kill on a squishy. It's not as good vs tanks but who cares.
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On March 20 2011 08:39 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2011 08:36 spinesheath wrote:On March 20 2011 08:29 L wrote:
Trinity force on trynd seems like a horrendous idea. Triforce is OP, I wouldn't ever doubt it's good on Trynd. The key here is that you frontload your damage, so you can kill squishies before they get away. Typically you spin, get a couple of hits off, but the last few hits are denied by slows/CC. If you are only going to be hitting tanky champs, it'll lose a lot of strength though. Yah you got that right, you can do the spin -> hit -> W -> hit type of burst and along with the slow it's a guaranteed kill on a squishy. It's not as good vs tanks but who cares.
Filled in the above.
Waiting till 30+ minutes to get a good ganking setup that still has the same gaping teamfight vulnerability that's trynd biggest weakness doesn't sit well with me.
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On March 20 2011 08:39 -Kato- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2011 08:13 ArC_man wrote:On March 20 2011 07:41 -Kato- wrote:
Can any USAer post Rainman's Teemo runes and masteries? Aspd marks/ health per level seals/ flat mr glyphs/ flat health quints 9/21/0 going for exhaust/mpen in offense and getting the aspd bonus in defense (no dodge). Thanks. How does he not have mana problems?
Probably by maxing E first (that's also the reason for ASpd marks over MPen marks) and only using Q/W rarely. Since he doesnt build CDR he isn't going to spam shrooms very much either.
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On March 20 2011 08:44 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2011 08:39 -Kato- wrote:On March 20 2011 08:13 ArC_man wrote:On March 20 2011 07:41 -Kato- wrote:
Can any USAer post Rainman's Teemo runes and masteries? Aspd marks/ health per level seals/ flat mr glyphs/ flat health quints 9/21/0 going for exhaust/mpen in offense and getting the aspd bonus in defense (no dodge). Thanks. How does he not have mana problems? Probably by maxing E first (that's also the reason for ASpd marks over MPen marks) and only using Q/W rarely. Since he doesnt build CDR he isn't going to spam shrooms very much either.
Totally unrelated btw, but it's incredibly easy to never miss lasthits if you max E first. It's so amazing. And yeah Rainman doesn't really harrass alot with Q, he just spams all his mana on shrooms from what I've seen.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 20 2011 08:29 L wrote:
Trinity force on trynd seems like a horrendous idea.
Well, lets explain why. The entire concept of critting off a higher stacked damage to deal higher damage is a good one. That's kinda why GP is decent. The problem, however, is that unlike GP, your effectiveness is always going to be mediated by CC and exausts, and again unlike GP, you don't have the luxury of solo farming a lane for 824.42 years.
Because you're forced to take part in drag/tower fights, and because you might get a shitty lane, you can generally say that a 21-24 minute IE is about 'on par' for what you'd be hoping to get. Lets be charitable and say that you pull in 5 kills at this point for a cool 1500$, and then assume that you farm like a shroomed teemo. the other 2500 is going to come to you in approx 100 cs. Teemo can throw down a reliable 100cs/10 min, so lets be nice and toss you 10 min. Lets be double nice and say you get double drag during that time. Mang. that's almost 20% off the remaining value, so lets say you only take 8 minutes. So, we're now looking at a 29-33 min trynd with IE and triforce under wildly amazing conditions.
Slight problem? You're still going to get CC'd and raped because you have no mres and nothing to prevent CCs. No QSS, no banshee. On the plus side, you'll have mercs and that's about it. The ranged carries that you're going to need to be facehugging are probably corki or ashe, both of which have either a wall full of delicious kiting for you, or a leap and huge magic deeps.
I dunno, I just really dont' see Trynd as scary till he picks up an item that allows him to get around the stupidly easy methods of mitigating his damage, and given how massive triforce is, you're going to be going a VERY long time before you get it.
Well, you have Cleanse, and as I said at the end you can get QSS earlier if it's needed. You also are a real dummy if you jump in first into all the CC without anyone initiating the battle.
You also forget that you already have the Zeal so it's only 2900 more, and that you get 1.5 gold per sec passively and another 0.5 from your Avarice. 480 seconds is already 960 gold, so it's actually not even that weird to get IE / Triforce at 30min.
CC is a problem yeah but you deal so sick dmg that it's pretty ridiculous.
On March 20 2011 08:43 L wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2011 08:39 Shikyo wrote:On March 20 2011 08:36 spinesheath wrote:On March 20 2011 08:29 L wrote:
Trinity force on trynd seems like a horrendous idea. Triforce is OP, I wouldn't ever doubt it's good on Trynd. The key here is that you frontload your damage, so you can kill squishies before they get away. Typically you spin, get a couple of hits off, but the last few hits are denied by slows/CC. If you are only going to be hitting tanky champs, it'll lose a lot of strength though. Yah you got that right, you can do the spin -> hit -> W -> hit type of burst and along with the slow it's a guaranteed kill on a squishy. It's not as good vs tanks but who cares. Filled in the above. Waiting till 30+ minutes to get a good ganking setup that still has the same gaping teamfight vulnerability that's trynd biggest weakness doesn't sit well with me. I've experimented a ton with stuff like PD -> Youmu and other "mobility" builds, but in the end you just don't deal any dmg and are useless. At that point it's not the item choice, it's the champion. Btw I've already said you get QSS quicker if needed.
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If you're going for triforce after QSS and you take away my free lunch scenario, you're getting your shit post 40 minutes, and that's assuming you aren't running green pots post IE, which is bad. So essentially once the game's already over you've got a pretty decent item set for dealing another 400-600 prearmor burst during a fight. Somehow that doesn't make my jaw drop. Its probably pretty helpful for pushing towers, though. You compare triforce to a pd, but its not in the same cost range. There's enough leftover cash there to grab a QSS. That disparity? Important.
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Huh? I have 300 minion kills at 36min and almost full inv at 40min, dunno how you're farming..
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On March 20 2011 09:11 Shikyo wrote:
Huh? I have 300 minion kills at 36min and almost full inv at 40min, dunno how you're farming..
I gave you the equivalent of 360cs at 36min. Dunno why you're somehow shocked.
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On March 20 2011 09:18 L wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2011 09:11 Shikyo wrote:
Huh? I have 300 minion kills at 36min and almost full inv at 40min, dunno how you're farming.. I gave you the equivalent of 360cs at 36min. Dunno why you're somehow shocked.
Assuming 20 gold per minion 300 cs is 6000 gold, passive gain 3240, avarice about 840, and that's already 10k at 36min without any kills or towers or dragons
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And i gave you a 29-33 min Merc/Inf/Triforce/avarice.
Which is 10k worth of stuff.
So again, dunno why you're shocked.
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Nocturne is a stupid fucking champion.
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On March 20 2011 09:26 L wrote:
And i gave you a 29-33 min Merc/Inf/Triforce/avarice.
Which is 10k worth of stuff.
So again, dunno why you're shocked.
I'm shocked if you have merc/inf/triforce/avarice at 30min and don't destroy everything.
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On March 20 2011 09:34 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2011 09:26 L wrote:
And i gave you a 29-33 min Merc/Inf/Triforce/avarice.
Which is 10k worth of stuff.
So again, dunno why you're shocked. I'm shocked if you have merc/inf/triforce/avarice at 30min and don't destroy everything.
Exhaust is a pretty good skill. Being able to select multiples of it during draft on reaction to trynd makes for pretty bad times.
+ If I'm vacuuming a lane up alone to get that cs, there's a huge risk we don't have dragon control and that the rest of my team isn't farming because they're trying to stop pushes. GP's at least got his ult, and teemo can go teleport with little lost. As far as ricers for top goes, trynd's mediocre.
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What does 5 tanks and 5 fortify look like? I present to thee: never die, never get pushed team:
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/zikf0.png)
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4:54pm: We are currently investigating a crash related to Maokai. During this time we will be disabling the champion. I will update with more details when I have them.
5:03pm: A game engineer is currently looking at this issue.
5:25pm: We've successfully reproduced this internally and are debugging. We are investigating a fix for this now. This may take a little time to figure out exactly why it's crashing the game. I'll update within the half hour, but we don't have a set eta for the fix. It will depend on the complexity and whether it is a server-side or client-side patch.
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Supposedly the bug is Maokai's ult crashing the game if GA activates while it's on. Why now, idk,
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On March 20 2011 09:41 L wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2011 09:34 Shikyo wrote:On March 20 2011 09:26 L wrote:
And i gave you a 29-33 min Merc/Inf/Triforce/avarice.
Which is 10k worth of stuff.
So again, dunno why you're shocked. I'm shocked if you have merc/inf/triforce/avarice at 30min and don't destroy everything. Exhaust is a pretty good skill. Being able to select multiples of it during draft on reaction to trynd makes for pretty bad times. + If I'm vacuuming a lane up alone to get that cs, there's a huge risk we don't have dragon control and that the rest of my team isn't farming because they're trying to stop pushes. GP's at least got his ult, and teemo can go teleport with little lost. As far as ricers for top goes, trynd's mediocre.
Exhaust >>> everything, not just trynd. If they exhaust you your annie or malzahar pentas, no big deal
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EPT
