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On March 15 2011 07:58 Tooplark wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 07:46 Kaniol wrote:
Wait, does swain's E really increase ignite's damage? I always thought that it increases only dmg of his autoattacks (it was supposed to increase dmg of spells too when it was his ulti but then they "nerfed it" from ult status) Swain's E increases all sources of damage from Swain. I don't know where you got the idea that it only boosts autoattacks because that's silly and sorta useless. It's always been his E, but they nerfed it from ALL damage to just Swain-damage because they didn't want a focus-down-one-dude metagame. It's also why some people like DFG on him, though I think he needs AP and survivability more than he needs another nuke. It does give some handy burst damage though.
I got this idea from reading skill descriptions, didn't know so little people do this - it says his E increases power of his attacks (not spells and attacks, just attacks. I guess the problem again lies in Riot not having/following any definitions of words they use - for example Yi's passive says "Master Yi strikes twice each 7th attack", yet alpha strike doesn't count as an attack, why do Swain's spells count as attacks then?).
Also it wasn't always his E:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6423491
Where did you get this info about his E "nerfed from ALL damage to just Swain-damage"? I remember it always being only Swain damage (they just changed the mechanics from the PR version where his E was ulti to released version when it switched places with his current ulti)
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Germany8679 Posts
On March 15 2011 18:51 Shiragaku wrote:
Bleh...my friend is not going to like the changes to Cho and Kassadin. I hope it does not affect their position on the tier list or have a major effect on their value in battle.
MUST...
STAY...
TIER...
ONE!
Of course it has major effects. 150 less damage on Feast is HUGE. Kassadin won't be able to snowball as hard by building glass cannon anymore, or at least the weaker players won't be able to abuse Riftwalk for damage all that well to compensate for the Force Pulse nerf.
Oh and please just imagine you never saw or heard anything about tier lists in LoL.
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Every time I watch EU play, their jungling just makes me want to gouge my eyes out.
Oddone would have a field day with EU's junglers.
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On March 15 2011 18:14 NB wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 16:22 Fatmatt2000 wrote:
I havn't actually played him but, does nocturne remind anyone of a somewhat less gay version of sand wraith (Hon)?
Also does phreak start every spotlight by saying he likes to start that champion in the jungle? Spectre from the original DotA! The combo of him with TF is basic strat Global Ganking with tinker spectre and zeus furion and Clock/invoker. Cant wait to see real Global ganking in LoL... Karth + TF + Nocturne + Shen +?
Pantheon duh...
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On March 15 2011 19:10 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 18:51 Shiragaku wrote:
Bleh...my friend is not going to like the changes to Cho and Kassadin. I hope it does not affect their position on the tier list or have a major effect on their value in battle. MUST... STAY... TIER... ONE! Of course it has major effects. 150 less damage on Feast is HUGE. Kassadin won't be able to snowball as hard by building glass cannon anymore, or at least the weaker players won't be able to abuse Riftwalk for damage all that well to compensate for the Force Pulse nerf. Oh and please just imagine you never saw or heard anything about tier lists in LoL.
Haha, tier lists are very weird depending on how you play. If you play by engaging in very large team fights, then Elementz tier list is your man but if you just group up and gank people one by one, then that is a whole new story. I just like seeing my characters in tier 1 because it makes me feel warm and fuzzy deep inside.
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On March 15 2011 19:35 dnastyx wrote:
Every time I watch EU play, their jungling just makes me want to gouge my eyes out.
Oddone would have a field day with EU's junglers.
EU is painful to play on. While the top tier teams may have some strategies behind them (but judging from their vent convos they don't) the tank/double AP solo combo works because of really really bad junglers and no counterjungling whatsoever.
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That's not true, I feel like babysit bot and 2 strong solos is actually a really legitimate strategy.
But yeah, I don't think EU has the same skill level as US, not at all. That's not to say they don't know what they're doing, though.
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On March 15 2011 19:10 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 18:51 Shiragaku wrote:
Bleh...my friend is not going to like the changes to Cho and Kassadin. I hope it does not affect their position on the tier list or have a major effect on their value in battle. MUST... STAY... TIER... ONE! Of course it has major effects. 150 less damage on Feast is HUGE. Kassadin won't be able to snowball as hard by building glass cannon anymore, or at least the weaker players won't be able to abuse Riftwalk for damage all that well to compensate for the Force Pulse nerf. Oh and please just imagine you never saw or heard anything about tier lists in LoL.
The nerf to feast isn't a big deal. I think they gave him better ap ratios and increased the damage on vorpal blades. They just don't want him gibbing carries anymore with super tankiness.
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I knew wrecking guinsoo on my smurf with jungle cho was a bad idea
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How to 1v2 as Cho now? Get stomped all day...
Overall, I'm liking the notes, except that Irelia wasn't really touched.
But really, how does one successfully 1v2? Or rather, what can a jungler do to pull his weight, if top lane gets shat on?
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On March 15 2011 21:01 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
That's not true, I feel like babysit bot and 2 strong solos is actually a really legitimate strategy.
But yeah, I don't think EU has the same skill level as US, not at all. That's not to say they don't know what they're doing, though.
But do you think their strategy will become the dominant eventually? Basically, like DotA, just farm, avoid confrontations, and end the game in one blow? Or is it impossible to simply farm off of minions the same way in HoN/DotA?
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Just to let you guys know, as an EU player US LoL looks like it's lower skill. -_-
On March 15 2011 21:09 Shiragaku wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 21:01 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
That's not true, I feel like babysit bot and 2 strong solos is actually a really legitimate strategy.
But yeah, I don't think EU has the same skill level as US, not at all. That's not to say they don't know what they're doing, though. But do you think their strategy will become the dominant eventually? Basically, like DotA, just farm, avoid confrontations, and end the game in one blow? Or is it impossible to simply farm off of minions the same way in HoN/DotA?
Dota is like that? wtf?
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On March 15 2011 21:13 Goshawk. wrote:Just to let you guys know, as an EU player US LoL looks like it's lower skill. -_- Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 21:09 Shiragaku wrote:On March 15 2011 21:01 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
That's not true, I feel like babysit bot and 2 strong solos is actually a really legitimate strategy.
But yeah, I don't think EU has the same skill level as US, not at all. That's not to say they don't know what they're doing, though. But do you think their strategy will become the dominant eventually? Basically, like DotA, just farm, avoid confrontations, and end the game in one blow? Or is it impossible to simply farm off of minions the same way in HoN/DotA? Dota is like that? wtf?
That is what I heard. Of course I could be misinformed but what I heard is that the point of DotA is to get most of your money from minions rather than champions (but that does not mean you cannot feed the other team) and have few confrontations. That is why pro DotA is so boring but I never watched it, this is coming from a buddy of mine who played DotA for the longest time and followed the e-sport scene.
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On March 15 2011 21:09 Shiragaku wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 21:01 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
That's not true, I feel like babysit bot and 2 strong solos is actually a really legitimate strategy.
But yeah, I don't think EU has the same skill level as US, not at all. That's not to say they don't know what they're doing, though. But do you think their strategy will become the dominant eventually? Basically, like DotA, just farm, avoid confrontations, and end the game in one blow? Or is it impossible to simply farm off of minions the same way in HoN/DotA?
Having the carry bot is perfectly legit since they pair him with infinity heals to keep him there all day, I just think that the way the solos are handled should be dealt with differently by the junglers and could totalle be hardcountered if some people who are actually good at the game would dedicate time to studying it.
DotA strat doesn't work because creeps give 1/3 the gold and jungle creeps can't be stacked to give carries the 23 min boost. Carries do come out of the bot lane farmed, but they are mostly used for the surprise effect of having someone randomly pop in a teamfight and do half a team's damage. One teamfight in the EU metagame does often turn the game around because of people getting caught unprepared and tanks have to play the guessing game of when to stop buying MR gear and get armor instead.
On March 15 2011 21:13 Goshawk. wrote:
Just to let you guys know, as an EU player US LoL looks like it's lower skill. -_-
It was the other way around for me. Mostly because of no turks and no russians but still.
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On March 15 2011 21:13 Goshawk. wrote:
Just to let you guys know, as an EU player US LoL looks like it's lower skill. -_-
(...)
Go play here then. I have lvl 22 smurf on the us and lvl 20 smurf on the EU. US smurf average queue time is 30 seconds, EU smurf avg. time is 5-10 minutes (which already tells you something about player skills at ~20 lvl), yet only in the EU i still run into people going vamp scepter first ashe/teemo/udyr. Also US people seem better organised to me when i compare these. I yet need to lvl up my EU smurf to 30 to really be able to compare these two servers.
Lunek will get there first though i think, so he will be able to report 
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On March 15 2011 21:26 Kaniol wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 21:13 Goshawk. wrote:
Just to let you guys know, as an EU player US LoL looks like it's lower skill. -_-
(...) Go play here then. I have lvl 22 smurf on the us and lvl 20 smurf on the EU. US smurf average queue time is 30 seconds, EU smurf avg. time is 5-10 minutes (which already tells you something about player skills at ~20 lvl), yet only in the EU i still run into people going vamp scepter first ashe/teemo/udyr. Also US people seem better organised to me when i compare these. I yet need to lvl up my EU smurf to 30 to really be able to compare these two servers. Lunek will get there first though i think, so he will be able to report
Ermm. I have a US smurf, but it's low level (15) (and leveling a smurf up is fucking boring -__-). Playing games on lvl 20 accs says nothing about higher tier play on either server, nor does search times. >_<
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On March 15 2011 21:13 Goshawk. wrote:Just to let you guys know, as an EU player US LoL looks like it's lower skill. -_- Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 21:09 Shiragaku wrote:On March 15 2011 21:01 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
That's not true, I feel like babysit bot and 2 strong solos is actually a really legitimate strategy.
But yeah, I don't think EU has the same skill level as US, not at all. That's not to say they don't know what they're doing, though. But do you think their strategy will become the dominant eventually? Basically, like DotA, just farm, avoid confrontations, and end the game in one blow? Or is it impossible to simply farm off of minions the same way in HoN/DotA? Dota is like that? wtf?
Just chinese dota, LGD.sGty primarily, who I'd say is the best DotA team in the world. They basically play with 3 carries, farm for 50 mins, then win because those 3 carries are played by pretty much the best farmers in the game.
Of course that doesn't always happen and sometimes they win quicker than that, but that's the strat.
On March 15 2011 21:26 Kaniol wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 21:13 Goshawk. wrote:
Just to let you guys know, as an EU player US LoL looks like it's lower skill. -_-
(...) Go play here then. I have lvl 22 smurf on the us and lvl 20 smurf on the EU. US smurf average queue time is 30 seconds, EU smurf avg. time is 5-10 minutes (which already tells you something about player skills at ~20 lvl), yet only in the EU i still run into people going vamp scepter first ashe/teemo/udyr. Also US people seem better organised to me when i compare these. I yet need to lvl up my EU smurf to 30 to really be able to compare these two servers. Lunek will get there first though i think, so he will be able to report
Vamp scepter isn't even that bad of an opening when you think about it objectively, and to be honest I have 3 EU smurfs lvl 5, 8, 14, and haven't seen a vamp scepter opening in months so I'm not sure which games you play. Queue times also are 5-20sec for me so I don't know why they'd be so much longer later on.
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Germany8679 Posts
On March 15 2011 21:02 Phrost wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 19:10 spinesheath wrote:On March 15 2011 18:51 Shiragaku wrote:
Bleh...my friend is not going to like the changes to Cho and Kassadin. I hope it does not affect their position on the tier list or have a major effect on their value in battle. MUST... STAY... TIER... ONE! Of course it has major effects. 150 less damage on Feast is HUGE. Kassadin won't be able to snowball as hard by building glass cannon anymore, or at least the weaker players won't be able to abuse Riftwalk for damage all that well to compensate for the Force Pulse nerf. Oh and please just imagine you never saw or heard anything about tier lists in LoL. The nerf to feast isn't a big deal. I think they gave him better ap ratios and increased the damage on vorpal blades. They just don't want him gibbing carries anymore with super tankiness.
Feast was just absolutely awesome at killing tanky champs. Fuck Feast on carries, anyone can burst those. (insert tanky anti carry here) going for your DPS? A bit of focus + Feast and he's dead.
The problem with support + carry bottom is that once mid (Panth, TF, Kass, LeBlanc, ...) hits 6, and typically up to the point where bot hits 9, the carry is just going to get picked off all the time by mid + jungle. The only ones who can prevent that are Alistar and Janna, basically. Soraka/Taric are not strong enough against burst. This strategy crumbles especially when the enemy doesn't run a carry+support bottom lane.
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On March 15 2011 21:36 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 21:02 Phrost wrote:On March 15 2011 19:10 spinesheath wrote:On March 15 2011 18:51 Shiragaku wrote:
Bleh...my friend is not going to like the changes to Cho and Kassadin. I hope it does not affect their position on the tier list or have a major effect on their value in battle. MUST... STAY... TIER... ONE! Of course it has major effects. 150 less damage on Feast is HUGE. Kassadin won't be able to snowball as hard by building glass cannon anymore, or at least the weaker players won't be able to abuse Riftwalk for damage all that well to compensate for the Force Pulse nerf. Oh and please just imagine you never saw or heard anything about tier lists in LoL. The nerf to feast isn't a big deal. I think they gave him better ap ratios and increased the damage on vorpal blades. They just don't want him gibbing carries anymore with super tankiness. Feast was just absolutely awesome at killing tanky champs. Fuck Feast on carries, anyone can burst those. (insert tanky anti carry here) going for your DPS? A bit of focus + Feast and he's dead. The problem with support + carry bottom is that once mid (Panth, TF, Kass, LeBlanc, ...) hits 6, and typically up to the point where bot hits 9, the carry is just going to get picked off all the time by mid + jungle. The only ones who can prevent that are Alistar and Janna, basically. Soraka/Taric are not strong enough against burst. This strategy crumbles especially when the enemy doesn't run a carry+support bottom lane.
Yep, putting the carry on the botlane is a great way to have them be useless for the first 40 minutes. Game's 4v5 at the start, and actually 3v5 because the support doesn't really do anything either. But for some reason people think wickd is god so they all copy him.
EDIT: Imo much better to have something like Sion/Chogath bottom, when the jungler ganks the carry it's a guaranteed kill and even just by themselves they can deny the carry pretty hard. Just such a bad style to play carrysup imo.
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Carry/support all of the matches I've seen from Eu teams, which actually isn't too many games. I'm kind of suprised if everyone is sticking to such a fragile setup, without trying to counter it. Are all top EU games all the time just babysitting @ bot?
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EPT
