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Mexico2170 Posts
Yeah, a lot of people see nerfs and avoid the heroes/habilities when in reality they can be very good.
I've got a questions about the Matchmaking and MMR.
The game "forces" a 50% winrate right? But how that can posibly work in a team game? What if you are in a party with two guys who has 60% winrate, and you have 50% winrate. Then theres a guy who has 40% winrate on your party too.
What now? If the sistem tries to bring the 60% down, the 40% and 50% are fucked. If they pair then with people with lower MMR than the 40% winrate, to try and make him win and stabilize his winrate, then the you just inflate the 60% winrate, and eventually you will have to bring them down, at the expense of others that may not have 50% win rate.
In Team league, or when most people already has 50% winrtare this may not be a problem, but on hero league and quickmatch, how do they balance it?
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On April 14 2015 09:05 [Phantom] wrote:
Yeah, a lot of people see nerfs and avoid the heroes/habilities when in reality they can be very good.
I've got a questions about the Matchmaking and MMR.
The game "forces" a 50% winrate right? But how that can posibly work in a team game? What if you are in a party with two guys who has 60% winrate, and you have 50% winrate. Then theres a guy who has 40% winrate on your party too.
What now? If the sistem tries to bring the 60% down, the 40% and 50% are fucked. If they pair then with people with lower MMR than the 40% winrate, to try and make him win and stabilize his winrate, then the you just inflate the 60% winrate, and eventually you will have to bring them down, at the expense of others that may not have 50% win rate.
In Team league, or when most people already has 50% winrtare this may not be a problem, but on hero league and quickmatch, how do they balance it?
Forcing a 50% winrate is a myth. If the matchmaking system works properly then each player will oscillate around his or her true rating which will result in winning and losing approximately the same number of matches or a 50% winrate. The system is not out to get you and decide that you have >50% winrate and that you're going to lose the next game. You tend to lose that game because your rating has increased to a point where it is above your skill level and therefore you lose.
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On April 14 2015 07:15 xDaunt wrote:
I'm having a hard time understanding all of the enthusiasm behind taking divine shield over divine storm so often on Uther. Even if you're looking to support someone like Illidan, I feel like you're better served just stunning everyone for 1.5 seconds than giving Illidan an extra second and a half of immunity. There are just so many plays so that you can make with divine storm. I was playing with a Kerrigan last night who specifically requested divine shield, and I complied. But my thought during the entire game was why bother shielding Kerrigan when I could facilitate fat wombo combos? I suspect that people are grossly overreacting to the level 20 nerf to divine hurricane, which is irrelevant anyway because redemption is the superior level 20 talent.
I mean it's really good if you're picking Illidan into a burst comp, especially if it's heroes like Jaina, Nova, and the like, where Divine Shield can just negate their burst damage and let Illidan either pick off one of their carries or at least blow all their CDs for your team to re-engage on.
It's true, though, for Wombo Combo comps you definitely want Divine Storm, but I think it's really comp dependent now rather than always Storm.
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On April 14 2015 09:05 [Phantom] wrote:
Yeah, a lot of people see nerfs and avoid the heroes/habilities when in reality they can be very good.
I've got a questions about the Matchmaking and MMR.
The game "forces" a 50% winrate right? But how that can posibly work in a team game? What if you are in a party with two guys who has 60% winrate, and you have 50% winrate. Then theres a guy who has 40% winrate on your party too.
What now? If the sistem tries to bring the 60% down, the 40% and 50% are fucked. If they pair then with people with lower MMR than the 40% winrate, to try and make him win and stabilize his winrate, then the you just inflate the 60% winrate, and eventually you will have to bring them down, at the expense of others that may not have 50% win rate.
In Team league, or when most people already has 50% winrtare this may not be a problem, but on hero league and quickmatch, how do they balance it? Winrate is relative. You might be a 60% winrate guy at skill level x, but 40% at skill level y.
When you get a lucky streak and win many games in a row, you'll face, on average, better players, without having better teammates to make up for it. If you can't keep up, you'll naturally lose a few games.
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On April 14 2015 10:50 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 07:15 xDaunt wrote:
I'm having a hard time understanding all of the enthusiasm behind taking divine shield over divine storm so often on Uther. Even if you're looking to support someone like Illidan, I feel like you're better served just stunning everyone for 1.5 seconds than giving Illidan an extra second and a half of immunity. There are just so many plays so that you can make with divine storm. I was playing with a Kerrigan last night who specifically requested divine shield, and I complied. But my thought during the entire game was why bother shielding Kerrigan when I could facilitate fat wombo combos? I suspect that people are grossly overreacting to the level 20 nerf to divine hurricane, which is irrelevant anyway because redemption is the superior level 20 talent. I mean it's really good if you're picking Illidan into a burst comp, especially if it's heroes like Jaina, Nova, and the like, where Divine Shield can just negate their burst damage and let Illidan either pick off one of their carries or at least blow all their CDs for your team to re-engage on. It's true, though, for Wombo Combo comps you definitely want Divine Storm, but I think it's really comp dependent now rather than always Storm.
You're not going to get everyone with divine storm now, at best I find you get 2 or 3 if they were close together for some reason. Saving one key hero or stunning a couple I often like saving one now especially if they just have some sort of burst you can counter like a jaina etc. Divine storm was that insane because it was coupled with sprint and had a insane lvl 20 talent but lacking both now it's just nice and I slightly prefer shield usually now.
The level 20 nerf for divine hurricane wasn't irrelevant I think, if it was in the olf form I'd still pick divine storm and that talent almost any time. Redemption is really good but that old ult upgrade was the best lvl 20 talent there was I think, having 2x the radius instead of 1.5x is quite a huge deal.
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On April 14 2015 07:15 xDaunt wrote:
I'm having a hard time understanding all of the enthusiasm behind taking divine shield over divine storm so often on Uther. Even if you're looking to support someone like Illidan, I feel like you're better served just stunning everyone for 1.5 seconds than giving Illidan an extra second and a half of immunity. There are just so many plays so that you can make with divine storm. I was playing with a Kerrigan last night who specifically requested divine shield, and I complied. But my thought during the entire game was why bother shielding Kerrigan when I could facilitate fat wombo combos? I suspect that people are grossly overreacting to the level 20 nerf to divine hurricane, which is irrelevant anyway because redemption is the superior level 20 talent.
It's more than losing Hurricane. You don't have sprint to get into perfect position and you lost the ability to cast it unimpeded from ghost form.
Personally, I was a little shocked why so much Divine Shield lately too.
But there's a good reason in the pro-scene. There the thinking is it's a good substitute for Rehgar's Ancestral Healing when Rehgar's banned or picked before you can get him. Given the popularity of Illidan in the pro-scene having two supports for him makes sense.
So I think for everyone else, it's a case of blinding doing what the pro's are doing. If I had more experience with Uther I'd be comfortable asserting the heroics are well balanced against each other (cuz honestly they do seem equally good now), but I kinda suck at Uther...
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The only time that I'd take divine shield over divine storm is if there was a real concern about enemy team burst damage -- especially with dive combos. I'd also have to consider it against poke comps just because it's harder to catch massed ranged heroes with divine storm.
That said, I think that there has been a general overreaction to the removal sprint as a reason not to take divine storm. So what if you "only" stun 2 or 3 heroes? That can be hugely problematic for the enemy team. And while I understand that things are different at the pro level, it really isn't that hard to catch multiple enemy heroes with divine storm without sprint.
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Well, we know that tons of people just blind copy the pro's without bother to know 'why' things are done this way or that.
Hmm, currently on ESL Fnatic going Uther - Illidan with Rehgar still no the board. I'm willing to bet they'll take Divine Shield. Starting to feel like Uther is turning into Rehgar with more utility / damage(?).
Edit: Of course Fnatic is getting crushed but I think it's cuz they were out-drafted hard rather than Shield being worse than Hurricane =p.
Edit2: Or because of connectivity issues I guess. Seems it's being postponed now.
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On April 15 2015 03:27 Wuster wrote:
Well, we know that tons of people just blind copy the pro's without bother to know 'why' things are done this way or that.
Hmm, currently on ESL Fnatic going Uther - Illidan with Rehgar still no the board. I'm willing to bet they'll take Divine Shield. Starting to feel like Uther is turning into Rehgar with more utility / damage(?).
Edit: Of course Fnatic is getting crushed but I think it's cuz they were out-drafted hard rather than Shield being worse than Hurricane =p.
Edit2: Or because of connectivity issues I guess. Seems it's being postponed now.
I would take Uther over Rehgar, too, because 1) Uther has far more utility than Rehgar (stuns, cleanse, etc), and 2) Uther is a brutal counterpick against melee assassins.
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DS is basically AH but in the inverse. AH is still a better ult than DS but with a bit of forethought you can negate much of the damage AH heals. Since Rehgar was mostly used for his AH and his Earthbind it turns out a predictive Uther can do stuff similar to AH with DS and has better CC than Earthbind. That isn't even taking into consideration Uther has Cleanse as well and a better teamfight healing kit. Then at 20 I feel the advantage shifts entirely to Uther.
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Does it make sense to say that each hero has its own skill ceiling? For example, with Zagara, you can make sure to be constantly dropping creep tumors (especially whenever your mana is recharging near full, so that you're never doing no magic). I'm wondering which hero has the highest skill ceiling (or, somewhat-related, which one is the most micro-intensive/ APM-oriented)? Are these even valid questions? Or might it be the case that the personal preference of each hero and skill tree makes assessing these things too subjective?
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On April 15 2015 04:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Does it make sense to say that each hero has its own skill ceiling? For example, with Zagara, you can make sure to be constantly dropping creep tumors (especially whenever your mana is recharging near full, so that you're never doing no magic). I'm wondering which hero has the highest skill ceiling (or, somewhat-related, which one is the most micro-intensive/ APM-oriented)? Are these even valid questions? Or might it be the case that the personal preference of each hero and skill tree makes assessing these things too subjective?
Yeah, I'd generally agree that some heroes are harder than others. Where I'd differ a bit is focusing too much on the mechanical components of the skill ceiling versus the tactical/mental components. Take Tyrande and Zeratul for example. I'd argue that Tyrande is the harder hero to play mechanically (all of those skill shots), but Zeratul is the harder hero to play overall due to the amount of tactical foresight involved.
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On April 15 2015 04:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Does it make sense to say that each hero has its own skill ceiling? For example, with Zagara, you can make sure to be constantly dropping creep tumors (especially whenever your mana is recharging near full, so that you're never doing no magic). I'm wondering which hero has the highest skill ceiling (or, somewhat-related, which one is the most micro-intensive/ APM-oriented)? Are these even valid questions? Or might it be the case that the personal preference of each hero and skill tree makes assessing these things too subjective?
Probably. But nobody's near skill ceiling, so what matters is learning curve. Some heroes have a relatively shallow learning curve and are easy to pick up quickly, like Valla or Raynor. Some have a pretty steep curve, like Vikings or Abathur. Some have counterplay curves that make them feel different, like Zeratul or Nova or Thrall (at low levels, people suck and dealing with them, but the counterplay becomes more natural to better players).
Edit: Also what xDaunt said.
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Tyrande is also very difficult because you need to know how to combo your stun with a variety of heroes. You need to know where/when to land your stun off Diablo's overpower. You need to know when/where to land the stun off Kerrigan's combo. Basically anyone that has a stun you need to know when to fire off your arrow and where to fire off your arrow. It is quite difficult and can really let individual play shine.
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Simple question, but is it possible to look up overall win rate for my profile on hotslogs? I see per map, or per hero, or even when I'm grouped with someone, but I don't see an overall percentage.
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Any ideas on how to deal with a zagara with endless creep?
Honestly seems borderline OP to me how much map control it gives you.
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As Day[9] would say, the answer to any cute strategy is to go fucking kill them. Applies here, I think.
Zagara also has a weird kit that is pretty exploitable. It's pretty much entirely dodgeable, and her most damaging skill does literally nothing against a pretty wide variety of heroes, most notably Tassadar, who doesn't even have to alter position. Zagara's good in spite of this, which tells you something, but she has distinct weaknesses.
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On April 16 2015 02:18 Yoav wrote:
As Day[9] would say, the answer to any cute strategy is to go fucking kill them. Applies here, I think.
Zagara also has a weird kit that is pretty exploitable. It's pretty much entirely dodgeable, and her most damaging skill does literally nothing against a pretty wide variety of heroes, most notably Tassadar, who doesn't even have to alter position. Zagara's good in spite of this, which tells you something, but she has distinct weaknesses.
Basically this. The answer to any aggressive pusher (Zagara, Azmodan, Sylvanas, etc) is to run rotations that gank their lanes mercilessly. Zeratul is particularly well-suited to this purpose.
As for clearing creep, your team just has to be diligent about doing it. If you see creep, take a moment to clear it unless you have something very important to do. If you let it build up over time, that's when you get in trouble.
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As a Zagara main I can vouch that the best way to avoid mass creep is to never let it get that far in the first place.
I nearly always go for Endless Creep, which massively increases the creep spread of a single tumor.
Rather than just placing them flat in the middle of a lane, I start at bushes and corners and work my way inwards, overlapping creep on purpose to make it difficult to guess where the tumors are. Once the entire lane is creeped up, the enemy team will have a hard time getting rid of it because the tumors could be anywhere.
However, Heroes such as Valla can deny creep spread very well with AoE shots (like Multishot) and diligence, which is very annoying for a Zagara to deal with since she can't really protect her tumors, and creep spread is what keeps her alive both in sustain and by providing vision so that you don't get ambushed and can run away. The main thing is that you will have to deny creep from the start of the game or you'll end up in a lane filled with creep and having to guess where the tumors are.
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I think Zags can be a great 5th pick because honestly if you don't have something to effectively deal with creep it can easily get out of hand. Some heroes shut creep down completely (mainly anyone with a large and low CD AOE skill -- or Tass) but if you only have narrow skill shots and small AOEs it suddenly becomes a massive pain in the ass to clear.
Like others have said the easiest way to deal with her is to gank the lane. If you let her do her thing unmolested things can get out of hand.
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EPT
